Other Writing Thoughts! A Realistic Romance~

[Melpomene]

Hello!


It is I, SoundOfSilence, and I have returned! It has been quite awhile since I last did a Writing Thoughts, but I have found the time to write another and I feel that it is about time that I posted another!


As you can see, I will be talking about romance today, as romance is something that is extremely popular in literature and roleplay. In most novels, movies, shows and roleplays, I often find some sort of romance coming up. That’s not to say I find it everywhere, as that would be a lie, but I find it in most places, I would say. And I see some people that seem to think a story would not be complete without a romance. Once again, that might not be the general consensus, but I have talked to many that seemed to have this impression.


Now, I have to start out by saying I do not hate romance, as I found some people assume I do. Many think romance is taboo to my characters, and while there actually is no problem with not liking romance and not wanting your characters involved in a romance, just as there is no problem with especially wanting romance, I am actually indifferent to romance as to whether or not my character gets into one.


Now before I go full into this, I am going to start off by saying that I am not talking about romances that are supposed to be akin to a romance book by Nicholas Sparks, or something like Twilight/50 Shades of Grey. One of the reasons I am not including these is because these are, in essence, romantic fantasies and are not necessarily supposed to be well written romances. These might end up with decent romances, but usually it is not made to be a realistically made romance and rather supposed to be… someone’s wish for a romance. It is perfectly okay to enjoy them,if you have fun with it, you do you boo-boo.


Then there comes stories like Romeo and Juliet where the romance is a means to an end, and it might need to be a rather bad romance for the theme and story and such to work out. As Romeo and Juliet may have only known each other for 5 days and didn’t talk much making the romance in itself lackluster, I and many others believe that it is supposed to be a cautionary tale and by the ending it seems to be more about the fact that if the two families could have finally given up their feud, perhaps the two kids’ stories would not have ended in woe. Thus, the romance does not have to work in this instance.


Ultimately what I am trying to say here, I know. I know not all stories need a well-developed romance. I know some stories benefit from having one that is less developed. I know some stories are not supposed to have realistic romances. I know the theme sometimes calls for an underdeveloped romance.


I am certainly not saying every romance must be a realistic developed one. I’m only saying that these, to me, are some of the markings of a realistic developed romance. I suppose this can also show some things I like and don’t like about romance. Just know that I am not attempting to say exactly how your romance should work, and I know that what I say here won’t always work for your intended purpose and wants.


Now without further ado, here it is:

Characters & Chemistry

First thing I would bring up is the actual characters. Firstly, that is to say that I find the best romances and the ones that I care about the most are the ones that are made up of well-written, well-rounded characters. For this, I have a way to see how the characters work off of each other rather than just watching two cardboard cutouts rubbing against one another.


They need to be compatible, at least somewhat. Two personalities that would just completely hate one another, and I mean truly be adverse to one another, it probably is not best to pair them together in a romance. There have been many times when I have seen two characters and all that was running through my head was: “Why are these two together, they don’t like each other at all, yet it seems I am supposed to think this is… romantic and nice?”


. Because the worst thing that could happen, in my perspective, is for a character to go out of characer in order to make a romance work. That, to me, can ruin it completely. I have seen this happen many times, maybe that is just my experience, but I really hate it.


In many action movies I find that the two that are supposed to fall in love either hardly talk to each other throughout the film, or essentially have no chemistry whatsoever and seem to be bickering non-stop, not in a flirtatious way, and often times are downright fed up with one another. Yet at the end we always know that they will get together because that is how the formula has been written.


There is no need for this romance. Many times it does not benefit the characters and the plot, it is… simply done because it can be done. Which I would say is often not the best reason to put something into a story. At least, I would find a reason to write it in.


Then again, many action movies can arguably be looked at as male fantasies, so perhaps this does not count. But I still bring this up as an example to show how it feels when there is no chemistry between two characters and when there seems to be no reason for them to get together other than they’re the respective gender they need to be so that they are able to be attracted to one another.


When it comes to the personalities in themselves, well, there is no one right answer. Sometimes you need to try to test them out together before you know immediately how they will end up. Sometimes characters will be nothing more than friends, so if a romance is being sought, a character may have to be tailored so that romance can happen.


Many like going for the opposites attract approach, but with this approach I think it is very important to mention that they usually have something in common, such as a similar backstory, experiences, or even a certain love or the like. A lot of this help give characters an understanding of one another and can help them naturally enjoy being around each other.


It is hard to make a good romance, I admit. It can be very hard, as you need characters that click in just the right way and sometimes it IS hard to tell how that would happen, as sometimes people do fall in love in mysterious ways.And it may take a lot of trial and error to have characters that have the right personalities, have been through the right events, and are with one another at the right times in order for a romance to develop. Not to mention, it will usually take a good amount of time. So buckle up, you have to be in the long game for many of these romances.


Romance in the Story


Now, I am not going to say that the story needs to have a romance for it to work. I understand that some characters naturally have much chemistry and their interactions develop into a romance. In fact, those are my favorites.


There might be a story where romance is a bit more integral to the plot, but I speak of those that aren’t supposed to be fantasy fulfillers, but rather something more like Beauty & the Beast, where the romance leads to these two people that felt like outcasts finding someone that likes the them in their oddity. This romance is integral to their character arcs and character development. We see their relationship grow and develop. We see them start off perhaps at odds, but spending time with one another, having fun, interacting. There is not this sudden fall into love, we watch it happen.


But there is one thing about this that I think is important to mention. And that is that their characters do not exactly revolve around being in a romance. While the romance certainly helps along their development and arc, the point is not exactly that they fall in love. Rather it is that the Beast, who was outcasted from society and forced to learn a lesson due to his cruelty. The romance is what helped drive him to become a better man in the end and know that he could be loved. With Belle, she has her larger than life adventure and someone that does not wish her to simply fall into the stereotype that all others seem to want her to fall into, namely Gaston, who wishes her to be the stereotypical good demure little wife that he can fill with babies and who will rub his feet.


I bring this specific example up because, I believe in many cases, a character has to exist outside of the romance. What I mean by this is that a proper, well-written character should not be summed up as… the romantic interest for so and so. I think their character arc should consist of something more than “falling in love” at least in the type of romance that I am writing about here.


If they exist outside of the romance, then it often feels more real and more like they are two people that ended up finding their true love in one another. Which, especially for certain characters, finding someone they fall deep in love with can be truly beautiful. However if it feels that they only exist for the pure sake of the romance and no other reason, it, at least to me, can feel a bit less genuine. Though, their personality and what they do for the other character may still be there.


Now, I have to say, that to me, if a character is literally only a romantic interest, and by this I mean that is the only reason they are there, they are an extraneous character. I am not saying that if them being there provides a goal for characters or even helps along a character arc/theme that they are extraneous. Quite the opposite, they are important to the story in some way. Rather I am saying, in a story that does not need a romance, does not benefit from a romance, with a character that is ultimately unaffected by a romance arc and would end up the same at the end of it all either way, and the theme would not benefit at all from a romance being had, a character that existed purely for the sake of a romance is extraneous.


The Drama


Now… a certain drama does often come along with a romance story. As true romantic relationship tends to have complications in them. That is to say, they are not perfect. People fight. Even people in love have times when they cannot stand the other (notice I said times, rather than 24/7 having a constant hatred for the other). Sometimes there are things comes up that does try their relationships. Sometimes people that will seemingly never split are pushed to the edge by one event. Not only do things happen in real life, but especially for a character, this can tie into their character arc, or perhaps, it may even tie into the story or theme in the story. And, for me, moments like these are made all the more suspenseful and leaving me in emotional distress when the romance already feels real and I have already felt these two characters connection.


Disagreements over the events of the story, parts of their pasts making a problem, unrequited love perhaps causing pain or anguish, things that can develop the character, plot and relationship! All of that is good stuff.


Now here is one thing that I have seen pop up again and again in the places where a romance was shoe-horned into a story:


The Love Triangle.


Rarely do I see it well-done. Most of the time, there is no doubt that it is done for the sake of living out a fantasy, so I will not criticize it on that level. But even outside of that, I usually groan when I see it instead of feel an interest. So for a proper love triangle, this is what I think needs to happen:


It should be a real love triangle. As in, if it is two guys, one girl, the girl should actually be into the two guys rather than obviously preferring one guy over the other. I say this, just because, in my opinion, if the girl only really likes one guy, then it is not a love triangle. There is just unrequited love, which as I mentioned is fine, but I would not say that was a love triangle.


A love triangle is when there is literally a triangle. The girl has feelings for both guys and actually has a chance of ending up with either by the end of this arc. I find it to be even better if the two guys have a love for one another, a friendship love, for example. The closest that I found to this was with King Arthur.


Guinevere does love Arthur and does not want to see him hurting, but she also loves Lancelot and is upset to think of not being without him, Lancelot loves Guinevere, but he also loves King Arthur as a friend and does not want to do anything that would hurt his friend. King Arthur loves them both and is saddened because the two people he loves the most are betraying him, but because of his love he wants to see them happy with one another.


To me, that is a true love triangle. And, to make it better, it added to the plot as it was what led to the fall of King Arthur. This is one of the cases when, outside of a romantic fantasy, a love triangle is not pointless. Now to be completely fair, it is usually in a story that is supposed to be a romantic fantasy that love triangles are seen, and it is usually there that they are… from a realistic standpoint, not done well, but it is just supposed to be a way to live out a fantasy, not a masterpiece of character study and literature, so who cares.


Show. Don’t Tell.


This is one of the rules of writing that is pushed more than any other, to always remember that it is important to not just blatantly tell someone how a character feels, but instead to truly show the feelings. This is because, by showing, it makes it easier to immerse yourself into the character’s emotions and feel as they feel. There is a difference between simply being told that someone is sad, and being able to actually see them being sad. Seeing them break. Seeing them love.


Yes, there is a certain impact at times when a character says to another that they love them, but that’s far from the only thing that should be used to show a love between people. I agree that especially when one character is bad at sharing their series, it can be a large step if they actually admit to a person that they love them, but it is meaningless if there was never something that happened that showed how much they love this person, because, really, most people can say they love someone, saying words is not that hard. But actual, genuine, shows of love, that says more than those three words could.


And of course, everyone likes to see people sacrificing themselves. People love someone risking their lives over another, but I would also say that there’s something there to the very small things that show someone loves another.


Maybe they do something simple just to see the other smile. They go a little out of their way when they don’t have to, just to do something for another. No, I don’t necessarily mean that they throw money at this person and get them generic gifts such as flowers and chocolates (though, there is nothing wrong with this, if this character that they are getting things has shown a love for getting these types of gifts), but perhaps a cheap relic that they know their SO would like. Perhaps a relic or item that relates to something they most love. Perhaps simply showing how well they know and understand them by doing something that their SO likes.


Outside of gift giving, there are many things. Such as just being there for them and understanding their problems, even when it is some of the smallest of problems. Maybe even showing how they want the best for that person and would even be happy for them no matter where they end up, as long as they know they will have a fantastic life.


Just these small and basic things that show that they love one another is enough. Without actually being able to see that these two people love each other, it means nothing when they simply say that they love each other.


And I feel this is important to mention because this is something that I know that more than I feel strong about.


Final Words and Goodbyes


Now, this is not for Rping, necessarily, this is also something that I mention for a story in general. I know if you are a romance Rper, you likely prefer something that is more like the stereotypical romance book/story rather than what I have listed here (I know I am being repetitive, but I really want to make sure that everyone understands me when I say, I know this type of romance that I have written about is not for everyone and that is okay).


I wrote this, also, because I know romance gets a very bad rap, and I know that there is… a good reason for this. No matter how much one likes the stories that are listed first and foremost in the romance genre, it is undeniable that most in that genre are not the pinnacle of character creation, plot, or writing and tends to be formulaic. That is why romance Rps get a bad rap, in my opinion, as well as most stories in general.


Part of this is to show that a realistic romance is attainable, if it is desired and something a story might call for.


Much of this comes from my own experience, so I understand if you have a different opinion and I invite you to share it! Add some things. Tell me about your favorite romance in an Rp you have played in! Tell me about the favorite romance you have read and why you liked it! Everything I wrote here, I took romances that I thought were well-written and really touched me in ways that others just could not. And I’ve seen many people try to copy romances like this, but… not succeeding. So, you can even give me the worst experiences and examples and show why certain things don’t work and how it could be made better!


Have fun my friends!


Ciao for now,


SoundOfSilence

 

[rae2nerdy]

Geek's TL:DR On Romance RPs
Another shorter way to look at this is to simply ask yourself which do you want to write

1. romantic scenes
2. romanticized pursuit
3. a relationship

If you answer is 1 Romantic Scenes than your goal is going to be to simply put your characters in unconnected scenes that are romantic in nature. A good example of this is : Character A looks at Character B longingly from across the room. Character A is a nerdy girl who has a make over and Character B discovers that they're actually very pretty.

If your answer is 2. Romanticized Pursuit than your goal is going to be simply Character A pursues Character B to get to End Goal. Usually this is sort of moving characters along a prescribed plot to a desired end. Sort of like having an outline for a story and a conclusion and fleshing out the action as you go. The end goal to this is usually dating but can really be anything. The point is that it's simple Character A does X thing to/for/with Character B with the hope of eventually reaching End Goal. (edited for clarity)


If your answer is 3. A Relationship than your goal is to simply make fleshed out characters and see what kind of chemistry they have as the story goes along. Or if you want you can simply write characters in an existing relationship of whatever type you wish and have them tackle the plot as a unit.

But the important thing is that when you say "romance" you should really clarify exactly which of the three options* you really mean. As someone who wants to write a relationship isn't going to be happy stuck writing romantic scenes. Or someone who wishes to write romantic scenes might be bored planning out a romantic pursuit.

*There might be more than three options these are just the ones I find come up the most.*


ABOUT THE GUIDE
That said I think you went into explicit detail on how to write romantic relationships very well. And even a little about the extinction between them and other types. I just thought i'd add my tl:dr because I think a lot of times people sort of say "romance" and they mean it the same way you might say "fantasy." Both are very broad genres that mean different things to different people. So sometimes just clarifying what you mean by "romance/romantic" helps make a roleplay better written and enjoyable.

In short, to tl:dr my tl:dr

BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT IN ROMANCE RPS.​

 

[Melpomene]

Geek's TL:DR On Romance RPs
Another shorter way to look at this is to simply ask yourself which do you want to write

1. romantic scenes
2. romanticized pursuit
3. a relationship

If you answer is 1 Romantic Scenes than your goal is going to be to simply put your characters in unconnected scenes that are romantic in nature. A good example of this is : Character A looks at Character B longingly from across the room. Character A is a nerdy girl who has a make over and Character B discovers that they're actually very pretty.

If your answer is 2. Romanticized Pursuit than your goal is going to be simply Character A pursues Character B to get to End Goal. Usually this is sort of moving characters along a prescribed plot to a desired end. Sort of like having an outline for a story and a conclusion and fleshing out the action as you go. The end goal to this is usually dating but can really be anything. The point is that it's simple Character A does X thing to/for/with Character B with the hope of eventually reaching End Goal. (edited for clarity)


If your answer is 3. A Relationship than your goal is to simply make fleshed out characters and see what kind of chemistry they have as the story goes along. Or if you want you can simply write characters in an existing relationship of whatever type you wish and have them tackle the plot as a unit.

But the important thing is that when you say "romance" you should really clarify exactly which of the three options* you really mean. As someone who wants to write a relationship isn't going to be happy stuck writing romantic scenes. Or someone who wishes to write romantic scenes might be bored planning out a romantic pursuit.

*There might be more than three options these are just the ones I find come up the most.*


ABOUT THE GUIDE
That said I think you went into explicit detail on how to write romantic relationships very well. And even a little about the extinction between them and other types. I just thought i'd add my tl:dr because I think a lot of times people sort of say "romance" and they mean it the same way you might say "fantasy." Both are very broad genres that mean different things to different people. So sometimes just clarifying what you mean by "romance/romantic" helps make a roleplay better written and enjoyable.

In short, to tl:dr my tl:dr

BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT IN ROMANCE RPS.​

I couldn't agree more.

I think that is the problem that plagues most RPs, in all honesty. Just the lack of communication over what is desired. I just think it might be most prominent in romance RPs (likely due to it being the most popular genre, especially in 1x1s)

 

[Annalise]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing!

 

[Idea]

Once again, a wonderful "essay" you could say on a broad but very pertinent writing topic. Reading stuff like this truly reminds you (as if your posts and general great personality didn't already) why I was so eager to roleplay with you. Great work!

Now, there are a few things I'd like to point out about what you said and romance in general, but before I begin I should probably put it in perspective. I have learned to view romance, in terms of stories, as a movement of stages of the relationship between two or more characters. From strangers to acquaintances to friends then entering more specific stages like noticing, falling, denial etc... I have even produced a tutorial long long ago, which is in dire need of an update, but still has a few tips that I would back today.

This dynamic focus of romance has a few implications. In particular, it makes characters and their development even more important than it normally is, as they are the centerpiece of the whole genre, but it also makes pacing extremely important. A good enough pace can make even lackluster scenes explode with emotion by building up simple character interaction till just the right moment, whereas a bad pacing will unquestionably wreck even the most fantasical of romances. Establishing characters that are independent individuals in their own right, and solid as people, as well as the great goalpost of the story (regardless fo whether it is reached in the end) is of great importance, but so is making sure that the speed of the journey can
1. Be matched by the audience who needs to find it believable
2. Not so dragged out that the audience loses interest or notices you dragging it out much
3. Take long enough for it to feel rewarding and earned

In what you said today, you focused a lot on characters but in the process I think you negleted to discuss other important aspects of romance, namely the aforementioned pacing. Furthermore, I believe you didn't really advise on perhaps the biggest pitfall and most crucial aspect of any romance: The romance itself.

I must disagree with the way in which you selected "romance as the means to an end" and "romantic fantasies" as something to exempt from having or being meant to be written well. A romantic fantasy will still always benefit from well constructed and well written, and romance as means to an end even moreso. In fact, these are the two biggest components of romance in general, representing to extremes of the focus on a romantic story. More importantly, however, they represent how to treat one's romance, or perspectives on that matter rather. Romantic fantasies create narratives all about the romance or around setting up a specific kind of romance. Romances as means to a thematic exploration will do the exact opposite, weaving the romance as the showcase or exploration of the themes. Whenever you try to make a story this focus should be the bulk of your pieces. How you treat your romance and what you choose to do with it will determine all the direction in the romantic story.

The reason why I mentioned earlier that you didn't provide any advice on the romance itself is because your advice in this thread can be boiled down to "ocus on the things that not the romance". Make sure the character's are developed more than the romance, and that the story is not itself driven by romance but "by coicidence" so to speak has romance in it. Putting the romance as a sidedish works well for a story that is not about the romance, but when the story is about the romance one cannot neglet that centerpiece of the story. And, in the end of the day, most will end up treating the romance as one of those extremes: Either the romance is itself part of the themes (beauty and the beast) or some form of recreation, a fantasy.


This is, of course, not to discredit the fleshing out of the story and characters beyond the romance. They are certainly extremely important to mention, so one does not loose sight of them. However, not only are they general principles (you should always flesh out characters and story etc... regardless of whether you're writing a romance) but they can't substitute the meat of the romantic stories, the romantic parts themselves. Everything should have meaning and build on the rest of that meaning.



One lesson that happened to stick with me from when I was back in...I think middle school? Was a small generalization that goes somewhat like this "We find people relatable when we know more about them. The more we find about a person (or character), the more relatable and likeable they will be.". Nowadays, I believe something similar. I believe the better we understand someone, the more we'll relate to them. And while there are better and worse ways of understanding someone, sometimes just spending time with them is enough.

Now, I wouldn't say "opposites attract". I most certainly agree that the characters ought to have somehting in common and something that gives a reason for the furthering of their relationship. However, I do not think this translates to "characters need to be compatible". I most certainly think near complete opposites can form a perfectly functional, reasonable romance by sheer force of repeated proximity and interaction, even if it's bickering. It's not the best way to do it, in fact it's quite obnoxious, but once we jump into that we get into more subjective territory. Still, some might object that it isn't realistic or believable, which brings me to another matter, one of HUGE importance to the genre of romance.

Is it a problem when a character acts against what the audience knows to be the best decision? And if not, then are criticisms of that nature unjustified?

Let's take the "love triangle" you mentioned. You talked about how a love triangle must be real, unbiased. How the in this case girl must have relatively equal feelings towards both potential romantic interests. However, at what point does it count as "actual feelings", "actual displays of affection" and "roughly equal"? Of course, while I'm mentioning that, there are plenty more examples people seem to complain about:

*Why did they fall in love, the reason doesn't seem realistic!

*How can the character not understand what the other is feeling, it's so obvious!

Matters like this would be frankly absurd in real life. Real romance isn't that simple and it only appears simplified in stories because it has to be and because of formulas.






Oh my.... Now that I am finishing writing this response, I must apologize because I started rambling and lost the thread of what I was saying. But I guess overall my points are, I think this advise is wonderful, but it has been given before and is negleting the things people really need advise about. A strong romance is a strong delivery of the romance.


PS: I couldn't help but notice the three or four false starts at the beggining of the thread, including the multiple "I (...) start out/off by"

 

[rae2nerdy]

Idea I think what OP was trying to get at is what I elaborated on in my own post. That there are different kinds of romantic stories that have different requirements for success.

For instance what your describing is a "romantic relationship" and specifically it is "a romantic relationship with an element of pursuit".

So therefore your advice is tailored to make that specific kind of romantic roleplay a success. But well people do many different kinds of romance based roleplays which have different criteria for success.

I would say "fantasy" or "romance for the sake of it" would most likely translate to my first two points. Romantic Scenes or Romanticized Pursuit.

Now there is nothing inherently wrong with these two types of roleplays. Nor do I think the OP was attempting to insinuate that they were poorly written. But the fact does remain that writing is not the primary focus of these roleplays. Nor is character or plot (in the case of scenes).

The thing that is important in these kinds of roleplays is external validation for an internal need. Which is why the focus on specific scenes or hitting specific story beats. Because your basically writing out someone's daydream of what their ideal romance/romantic situation is.

This doesn't really require a deft hand at writing/characterization/plot development/pacing. Because well that's not the important part. It's not about technical skill it's about emotional validation. And all that requires is you simply recreate the fantasy in someone's head as closely as possible.

Now I'm famous for lambasting this particular kind of thing ( romantic fantasy ) but it's more a frustration about lack of emotional connection from an outside source. I am obviously not going to resonate with someone else's romantic fantasy as strongly as they are. But that does not mean I necessarily think they are a failure on a technical level. They might be extremely well written but without the emotional connection than they kind of fall flat.

Moreover I don't think my own lack of emotional investment is a bug of the roleplays themselves. I am just not romantically inclined so for me a romance is going to be an uphill battle from the start.

Which is another problem and one I think the OP touched on and you elaborated on. People put importance on different sides of romance in roleplays. And if the things that are important to you are not compatible than the roleplay will fail. If you (Idea) are interested in pacing and a pair of well rounded characters and your partner is invested only in specific romantic scenes than the roleplay isn't going to work out. Because the two of you want totally different things from the experience.

Which is why I put my own advice below the original point. A lot of this is really just down to knowing your own preferences and being able to articulate them to your partner. You might not write something with a lot of technical skil but if the two of your are on the same page you'll at least be more happy to enjoy yourselves.