Anime & Manga Why Sword Art Online sucks! - Analysis/rant, kind of?

[The One Eyed Bandit]

"Railed on Fate"
More like Failed on Fate amirite?!

Really, the things he says about fate are pretty embarrassing as he obviously has no idea what he is even talking about.

To be fair, the followup video he made was basically him admitting "I don't know anything about Fate, don't care about Fate, and don't care to learn about it."

 

[Mion]

To be fair, the followup video he made was basically him admitting "I don't know anything about Fate, don't care about Fate, and don't care to learn about it."

Yeah I don't really have anything against the guy really. But he can be pretty grating, he is a prime example of a pseudointellectual. I do agree with some things he says. But he is way too up himself for me.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Yeah I don't really have anything against the guy really. But he can be pretty grating, he is a prime example of a pseudointellectual. I do agree with some things he says. But he is way too up himself for me.

I don't know about that. He can rub a lot of people the wrong way because he's very not 'clean and friendly' about the way he presents his opinions, but I don't think psuedointellectual is accurate given how open he is about just being some nerd on the internet with too many subscribers.

There's way worse out there. Like MAL users. *shudders*

 

[Mion]

I don't know about that. He can rub a lot of people the wrong way because he's very not 'clean and friendly' about the way he presents his opinions, but I don't think psuedointellectual is accurate given how open he is about just being some nerd on the internet with too many subscribers.

There's way worse out there. Like MAL users. *shudders*

Yeah I'm not claiming he's the worst or even particularly bad. There is far worse out there and there is also better... Although anime "reviewers" in general I am not very keen on lol

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Yeah I'm not claiming he's the worst or even particularly bad. There is far worse out there and there is also better... Although anime "reviewers" in general I am not very keen on lol

After Demo moved to Mars Twitch there aren't any that I'd call great, yeah. There's a really nice video or series every now and again, but none of them are very consistent. I do like most of Digi's stuff, though. Even if I don't always agree with it he's good enough at explaining his points that it's at least an interesting look at someone else's point of view.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

View attachment 351776 Orly now

Really, the things he says about fate are pretty embarrassing as he obviously has no idea what he is even talking about.

Fate makes edward cullen > god. Fate is just waifu bait. Unless you're gonna tell me that jeanne de boobs, assassin of boobs, jack the loli's mommy aren't all waifu bait.

but hey Saber is my 1# waifu, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes fate is kind of sleazy. But hey it was originally a hentai game. What do you expect from a series like that?

 

[Hall Kervean]

Your words not mine

 

[Mion]

Fate makes edward cullen > god. Fate is just waifu bait. Unless you're gonna tell me that jeanne de boobs, assassin of boobs, jack the loli's mommy aren't all waifu bait.

but hey Saber is my 1# waifu, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes fate is kind of sleazy. But hey it was originally a hentai game. What do you expect from a series like that?

Wow that really shows how Fate is JUST waifu bait. Also I don't see how Edward Cullen is relevant to Fate, the vampires in twilight are obviously not comparable to the vampires in the nasuverse.

I don't know what you mean by "sleazy", but fate is pretty much as tame as you could get when it comes to fan service outside of the legit sex scenes (which you can just skip by the way). The only other time I can think about it being sleazy is the predictable scenes where Shirou walks in on Saber bathing, and even that isn't just fan service it shows how Shirou and Saber both grew and developed as characters throughout the story.

Your post is probably meant as a joke but it just kind of annoys me that you throw out the complex themes and story of the fate series just to try and make a point that a few characters are "waifu bait".

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Wow that really shows how Fate is JUST waifu bait. Also I don't see how Edward Cullen is relevant to Fate, the vampires in twilight are obviously not comparable to the vampires in the nasuverse.

I don't know what you mean by "sleazy", but fate is pretty much as tame as you could get when it comes to fan service outside of the legit sex scenes (which you can just skip by the way). The only other time I can think about it being sleazy is the predictable scenes where Shirou walks in on Saber bathing, and even that isn't just fan service it shows how Shirou and Saber both grew and developed as characters throughout the story.

Your post is probably meant as a joke but it just kind of annoys me that you throw out the complex themes and story of the fate series just to try and make a point that a few characters are "waifu bait".

A nasuverse expert who was helping me with a plot of a fate rp that was I planning on running told me that vampires, are stronger than actual gods. The premise of fate stay night, is also shakey because the grail isn't the be all end all device. There are other miracles that if these same magi could have gone for instead, would have and would have no use for the grail. So the story of fate in itself is just a hobbling mess, but it is a mess than nasu admitted wasn't the best thing he could have written. It's a typical dating sim with sex, routes and super powers. If you want to break down why fate is utter garbage, you just have to look at the lore and universe itself. It's expansive but not properly written. It's more along the lines of a man winging it and throwing things together, than it is actually being a good story.

I wish this forum wasn't so pg. I could get the screen shot of shiro fucking Sakura and calling her an educated prostitute. But hey, lemme address the rest of your post. I just had to expand upon why fate sucks and how it is Waifu trash. Which you somehow are offended by because you think fate is above the likes of harem garbage.

Oh I don't have to address the sleazy part, as in my stream of conscipusness. I already pointed out why fate is built upon a sleazy hentai base.

It's not meant as a joke. The Edward Cullen thing is yes, but karna gilgamesh and the gods themselves. Are less than vampires. Because lul

 

[Count Gensokyo]

There are already a metric googolplex of "analysis" videos on Youtube riding the bandwagon (who all say mostly the same thing, tbh), so I don't need to hear it again on an rp website forum.

Overall (not factoring in the second half of Season 2), I'd still give a 7/10.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Hhhhuuuuuuhhh. With one of my favorite anime being an edgy harem, another being a fanservice bonanza and another being a manservice bonanza, the direction this thread has taken makes me want to make a thread. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Birdsie]

Do people still dwell on this dead meme? I posted this only to have a laugh out of people while eating popcorn all the while being somewhat smashed, but somehow people came to seriously discussing the title of the thread.

It is almost unbelievable how people take me hating SAO seriously. Yes, I dislike it. And yes, I think it's very, very bad. That doesn't mean I think you're a lesser human being for watching it. Some people have an armpit fetish, I don't judge them for that. I just say "Hey, you do you, man," and awkwardly walk away, leaving said individual to his own devices that give him happiness.

For all it's worth, I'll sum it up this way: SAO is a meme, this thread is a meme, hating SAO is also a meme, and all of them are dead memes. Also, SAO is trash and garbage, but y'all reserve the right to enjoy it. Good night.

 

[Birdsie]

Though, I'll go out and say that I enjoyed it up until the point that Yui got resurrected. Up until that point, the show was somewhat of a 6/10 for me -- not a masterwork, but not a complete waste of time. After that, it got way worse with all of the themes getting replaced by fanservice, wish-fulfillment, and typical shounen litter. Alfheim Online was complete shit, not even worth the time I spent watching it. GGO was a biiit better. It definitely returned back to the old themes slightly which kind of almost repaired it for me, but upon watching the opening a second time, I instantly realized Death Edge Gun is actually several people masquerading as one, where one of them is Sinon's friend. Later, I also realized they're from the laughing coffin and I laughed when I saw the government clerk hire Kirito, a fucking teenager, to do his work. Why? I don't know, apparently because teenagers are more competent than trained government agents for some reason. I actually watched GGO to the end and while it was not as good as the earlier parts of the Aincrad arc, at least it was not as bad as the latter parts of the Aincrad arc. In other words: also not a complete waste of time, but closer to it.

That being said, the SAO movie was a bit better imo. The villain actually wasn't a rapist/serial killer/murderer/completely monstrous for no reason/edgy for once, and he actually had human emotions which is something that a lot of SAO characters lacked up until that point. Of course, the movie fucked it up by having Kirito get stronger when he needs it (power wank + plot armor + op) and the stupid bullshit that drones can download people's memories and kill them because of it. They were just trying to find excuses for the audience to hate the villain because he put his love for his daughter above a few thousand people, which I honestly didn't find that bad. Yes, I know, I know: The greater good and all that, but you can't blame the guy for what he did.

In the light of all of the above, here's my personal rating of each part of SAO:
Aincrad Arc part #1: 6/10
Aincrad Arc post-Yui's resurrection: 2/10
Alfheim Online: 2/10
Gungale Online: 5.5/10
The Movie: 6/10

 

[Hall Kervean]

Overall;
I'd give it a... 2 or 3/10, not sure. Excluding excalibur and mother rosario; haven't seen it.
1st episode is maybe a 7, 2nd is a 6, 3rd may be an 8, and 4th a 6. I can defend those alone, and with the hypothetical series it was setting up.
5 crushed all the setup from 1-4 and didn't fit in the tone of the show at all. T'was a 3; same with the next.
7, though filler with little character development, is the last time the show returns to its roots. It is an adventure-themed episode that has *some* *minor* thrills and does look pretty nice. It has an eh plot, but a feasible one, and it also has a *relatively* feasible ending. Objectively probably a 3, with this show it's a 6.
(By now I'm piecing stuff together from memory and googling episode summaries to remember how to fit which memories where)
8, it's a cooking episode but without character development, it has a throwaway villain that Kirito, of course, defeats easily, and then they peek inside the boss room. Cliffhanger w/o a cliff to hang off of since there's no real risk. We're all waiting for the episodes where Kirito is challenged. I'd give it a 2.5
9, It's a poor excuse for episode 7, aside from the complete destruction of most options for drama, since PvP is now not a valid option, and they *have* to either do boring wastes of time, relatively boring character development, or fight pretty much just bosses. Plus, Kirito just broke the levels of *protagonist power* And then he accepted a duel with the commander in chief of a big guild. I'll admit, since episode 4 (episode 7 if I'm being generous) (Undermines my whole "believable after episode 4" statement, but it's because Kirito didn't *act* like he was struggling in any of the fights he was supposed to be struggling in, even against high-level opponents.), I haven't had any tension. I gave the guild leader 30/70, Kirito's favor. Ignoring the protagonist power level breakage, it's a 3.
10, Oh my, Kirito loses. It's a twist, and that's really not a good thing. So anyways, they *touch* on ep. 3's effects (or maybe that was the Abridged... either way) on Kirito relating to guilds, and so he regrets joining it. In any case, they go on a... I don't remember. Let's go with the Abridged.
They're going on a teambuilding exercise and stoppeth for a lunch break when, surprise but not really since in this show there's a 50/50 chance the ugliest person in the room is an antagonist, the old throwaway antagonist is back as... a throwaway antagonist! Asuna's been stalking Kirito and pretty much kills the throwaway dude, but decides to grow a heart and turns her back on him and, surprise surprise he attacks her and Kirito bum-rushes him to kill him. They tried to force character development here by calling him a murderer. It's done so poorly that even when they refer back to it it doesn't have much of an effect. Oh, and he marries Asuna and stuff. Another 3.
11.
They go on vacay, find Yui in the woods, take her in, then head over to an orphanage before attacking the government and then Yui gets PTSD. I don't remember much about this episode. I'm having to refresh my memory. 2.5 so boring
12. That one dude we don't remember the name of from episode 2 is back. This is like pandering to fans to another level. It's not only unnecessary, but from what we've seen, illogical. In any case, they head down into some secret dungeon until it reaches the point of total cliche/deus ex machina (we know what's gonna happen with Yui, and Yui's interference is pretty much the literal definition of it.) 2
13. They go fishing.
Then they finally do a little in the story. There's tension because their real bodies are not going to last (not much because good riddance) and they do add something I personally like. It's a bit of worldbuilding that wold have made sense if it was a better story. They add that some players don't actually want to move back. This genuinely surprised me, and in another story, this could have been a genuinely good idea. it makes sense, it's very malleable, it's perfect. Unless you never touch it again.
Then a really boring boss fight. We all know Kirito is going to win, it's just frustrating to see him take so long to do it. 3.5 because of missed opportunities
14. It was boring and the ending was relatively unsatisfying, though how they had it end without showing him meeting Asuna was good.
The series wasn't very good, but I mean, the ending was fine. If they just reworked the middle and maybe extended it, it'd probably do fine!
Hey wait,
there's more episodes?
But we finished!


AlfHeim gets a 1-2/10 for the most part. With a couple of obvious exceptions. Which score around a 0/10.
GGO gets a 3/10 from me, aside from one part.
It is the first time in the show that I leaned in. Since 1-4 were establishing backstory, I was kind of just leaning back, ready for whatever came next. Since then, I'd really not cared one way or the other.
Death Gun's first appearance, we all agree, was absolutely stupid.
His second appearance set a bar that SAO could never hit again for me.
Of freaking course I'd known that the dude was Death Gun. But you see, aside from me forgetting what the Laughing Coffin symbol was since they'd appeared as filler/throwaway villains, I thought that Death Gun looked meh.
First of all, how he enters. He doesn't. He just shows up behind Kirito. Not a bad entrance. For SAO, that's a compliment.
Next, the music. It's no Zoldyck theme, but it fits fine for the scene.
Then, Death Gun manages to actually be a relatively eh villain. He lets Kirito know that he's on to him, and isn't a cowardly sex offender or [Villain:Insert] like the previous two.
The animators hadn't actually done anything to make him look bad yet, either. He looked relatively intimidating, unlike during his fight scenes (comedy gold).
And in the Japanese version, which is the one I watched, he actually does sound relatively intimidating. (Dubbed though ;u; more comedy gold)

(the dialogue is equally ridiculous, but in Japanese it's at least said in a way that makes the sound less stupid, at least to me, a non-Japanese-speaker.)

He actually manners to fluster Kirito out of fear in a couple of sentences.
He even makes Kirito so tense that when he moves his hand to open a GUI, Kirito moves into a defensive posture.
For the first time in the entire show, Kirito is not in a position of dominance. He has no cards up his sleeve, no great comeback, nothing. Death Gun has the advantage. And then Kirito connects the dots: He's an SAO survivor.
And here's where it came down to an individual perception.
I had such a low bar set that I expected this to be the end. So when it wasn't, it was good. Kirito is frantically flashing through his memories, poring over anyone he thought it could be in blind desperation. So desperate, in fact, that he stays for 2-3 seconds on a group of children, meaning he's not willing to say they're not him yet. So Death Gun gives him a hint.
He shows him he's a member of Laughing Coffin. And that destabilized Kirito.
Death Gun asks him if he understood the question, which is if he's the real Kirito, and Kirito tries to regain his composure.
He barely manages to say that he doesn't. In response, Death Gun says that it doesn't matter if he's fake or real, he'll still kill him eventually. And that broke him.
And it gave me chills. I finally had someone worth rooting for.
And on top of that, the next shot was of Kirito dropping on to a seat and putting his head in his hands, breathing heavily.

UnFORTUNATELY, they decided in their INFINITE WISDOM. to ruin all of this later on. But, like 1-4, it was, at the time, good. In fact, for the first villain-hero confrontation, it was actually objectively high-above par.
I can't account for anything after GGO. I gave up.
OVERALL,
SAO gets a 3.5/10 from me, but that is excluding the two parts from AlfHeim that brought the score down way further to maybe a 2.
Aincrad gets a 6/10
AlfHeim gets a 2/10, if not a 1/10
GGO gets a 3.5/10, and 1 of those is because of Death Gun's second appearance.
(I was bored)
(Also find it funny that this final battle thing here someone made is better than the actual fight because no one talks during it. And it has Star Wars music in it.)

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Trigger Warning

I may, or may not have been slightly intoxicated while writing this. Viewer reader discretion is advised.​

Hello there!

You're here because of one of three reasons:

1. You hate Sword Art Online with passion and wanted to see me rant on it.
2. You love Sword Art Online with passion and wanted to tell me I'm wrong/disprove my claims/etc.
3. You clicked here because the title is a bunch of clickbait.

Now, without further ado, let's get to the point.

As is obvious to you, the anime community generally falls into two categories: Those that like Sword Art Online and those that think it is bad. Now, I fall into the latter type, and here's why:

First of all, Sword Art Online is far from perfect. And by that I mean it has so many flaws in it that it's comparable to tissue taken from a patient of IV-stage cancer. Trying to dig down, deep into the very source of this malignant tumor is risky, so I want to warn you. Now, let's start off with the very focus of the show, as is appropriate; our protagonist.

[1. The Protagonist.]

Enter Kirigaya Kazuto. With his own pet nickname "Kirito Jesus-kun," attributed to him most likely by the anti-fans of the series. Kirigaya, or, Kirito, as he calls himself online, is a leet gamer with legit skills. Or at least, that's what is established early on. I can accept that. But what is it that makes him bad?

Now, Kirito starts off in the show at: "Barely, but fairly likable," and quickly drops to: "I fucking hate him." That is, again, my opinion, so don't call me out on this. You're entitled to whatever opinion you hold of him.

Why is he so bad, though? You see, by himself, Kirito isn't that bad of a protagonist. It's not him by himself that he makes us hate him. If we were to see his day-to-day life as an anime instead of SAO, I bet he'd be a fairly average, if decent main character. If he was fleshed out a bit more, given a piece of backstory or actual motivation, maybe I'd be able to actually relate to him in about 10% instead of him being the Gary Sue that he is. He falls far below the average on the scale of "Likable Shounen protagonists," and a bit above on the "edge," scale. Why? Let me explain.

The "magic" of the first arc of Sword Art Online was the atmosphere. The whole premise of the show is that the characters are stuck in a world full of death and despair, and they can't get out. That being said, I liked this at first. They didn't go too overboard with the theme, but it was an ever-present and immersive feeling of fear. It was almost haunting and actually dragged me into this mess a bit further.

Of course, they instantly fuck that up by having him be the best player in the game that is undefeatable. Now, look, the mechanics of SAO as a video game are clunky at best -- you need to use gesticulation to manipulate the menu which removes many classic RPG features from being accessed (like keeping items tabbed, or chugging potions quickly during battles,) and it removes the classic RPG classes from the play, essentially making the concept of strategy and tactics inert by making all battles focus on "SWORD. TO. FACE," in the boss' direction. Why they try to make it out like there are any actual tactics behind swish-swish-swoosh is a mystery to me. This is bad. Very bad.

But let's go back to the "magic."

Taking that into the spotlight, think about it. The world where anyone can die. Where mistakes are permanent and actions have consequences: that's what they start off with -- what they hang in front of you.

And instantly, that's fucked up by the one protagonist who can't come close to being hurt -- and yes, once, Kirito almost dies, which I admit was a pleasant surprise in comparison to that... one... other... time...

See, having a protagonist that's unbeatable by 95% of the things that exist is... well, fucking boring. And that boredom is doubled by the fact that it blends itself well with the disappointment we receive at the show's premise being ruined. That's very bad. And that's very bad by itself. And maybe the show would be able to redeem itself a bit later on had they stopped at that, very point. It still had potential. Still had the light of hope in front of it.

...

But no, they fucked it up further. Let me get to that.

[2. - The Bullshit Fairy.]

Asuna was likable, I admit.
Kirito, on another hand, barely made it on the radar of my attention.

But you want to know who really ruined it?

Her.

Whatever little tension the show managed to build over time was ruined by this thing. This "perfect child." This, this... disgusting excuse for an inconsequential character.

Like I said above, the whole premise is that actions have consequences. So what do the writers decide is a good idea? That's right: Fuck the premise.

They... they create this abomination and have her die to create sadness and "motivation," for the characters. And it was at this point that I knew how it would end up. That's right, she comes back, getting revived. And it's at this point that the "dread" and "death," were ruined for me. The atmosphere and immersion, that although lacking, was still existent at this point, faded away with one character's resurrection, proving just how much the writers hated being good at writing.

Now, I'm not saying Yui is a bad character by her own, much like her "father," she has some redeeming qualities. Rather, it is her role in the story that the writers attach to her like a huge metallic ball with a chain that screws her up as a character. And this is more disappointing when you think that both Yui and Kirito had tremendous potential as characters, as well as plenty of space for development.

We never get to see that, because, frankly, and not meaning to boast, I could definitely write a better show than Sword Art Online by myself and with no supporting writers. I mean, hell, Sword Art Online Abridged had better character development than the original. Not even kidding. There's a whole advanced analysis video on youtube about it. That's right. A parody of the show that actually did things better.

Having addressed the problems with two of the worst characters in the show except for the villains, let's move on to another problem that is just as pressing.

[3. The Screwed Pacing.]

Can you imagine Reki Kawahara's reaction on their business meeting? "Hey, hey! Idea over here! How about we call it... Sword Art Online..."

And everyone nodded.

"But only the first arc of the first season is about Sword Art Online! Hahaha, I'm a fucking genius!"

And somehow, against all odds, everyone, fucking, nodded. How this decision came to pass is, was, and will forever be a mystery to me, and all people who exercise logical thought as their main philosophy.

I genuinely believe that the show would be far, far better if they prolonged the Aincrad arc and threw out the fairy-pixie machine bullshit. It was stupid and made Asuna into the typical damsel in distress, instantly dropping my levels of respect for her as a character from "Likable," to "Fuck you and fuck this show and everything it stands for and represents."

At that point, when I discovered what the arc was about, I just stopped watching. I couldn't bear the pain. I skipped to the ending of the season and, with agony, suffered through it before moving onto Gungale Online, which was comparatively just as bad if not worse. I'll get to this in a minute. Let me finish this part first.

Another point about this I wanted to address was the stupidity that this arc radiated. If I'm a stupidity furnace as a person (which I quite assure you, I am,) then this whole arc was a stupidity factory.

Let's review:

1. The villain is a cyber-rapist.
2. Asuna is turned into a damsel in distress.
3. Kirito's sister is... in love with him?!

What I want to say, think about the writer/executive who had the 3 ideas above. How anyone in the studio agreed to any of the 3 is sick and should be executed for incompetence as a human being.

[3.1 Gungale Online is shit.]

Just wanted to point out that in a game with guns, this fucker uses a fucking lightsaber. At that point, I stopped watching. There was no more hope. I get it, he's a kendo adept or whatever, and SAO gave him sword experience -- but deflecting fucking bullets with a lightsaber is impossible. No human nervous system has the processing speed to keep track of projectiles as fast as bullets, virtual world or not. This is so sinful from a writing--no, not writing, scientific--no, just thinking perspective, that I wanted to kill myself just from the intense back pains I got from imagining his spine twisting from all of these impossible, virtual acrobatics. (PS: I dare you to open the link below and look at that gif I posted.)

Because the writers say so.​

[4. Kirito Jesus-kun's blessings fucking curses of Fanservice.]

Of course, this is an anime.

Anime without fanservice doesn't exist. Any anime will have at least something a bit pervy at one point or another unless it is some grimdark horror, or other terrific thing and shit. That is simply how the world and how anime works. You have to live with it. I don't mind a panty shot or there... but this show? For all the dread of the first arc, takes the cake as one of the most perverted things created by mankind ever since the concept of perversion. Well at least there's no rape!

Oh, wait. This show has rape too. Sorry, I forgot. (Though, it's only implied. Still. I find that unacceptable.)

Let's review:

1. There's (implied,) rape.
   
2. And then there's stuff like this, because why not. (I want to point out there's a scene later with her wearing only underwear, so don't complain about me complaining. This show is about as perverted as the average succubus demon.)

[5. Curse of Bad Villains.]

The antagonists.

The sinister fellows in the alleyway.

The dark overlords.

Curse squad.

The bad guys.

Ma' boys.

They are always there to fuck up your day.

...

That being said, Sword Art Online has some of the worst villains in existence. I think it could get a custom award for some of the worst villains to exist. Let's go through one of them at a time, shall we?

1. Kayaba Akihiko: The developer of SAO. Why does he trap people to die in a game? Why does he have a god complex? This is how the show explains it: Fuck knows why fuck knows when. No backstory, no motive. He's so bland that the meals on the average Hell's Kitchen episode suddenly look appealing and appetizing. I'm safely going to go ahead and shamelessly say that Sword Art Online Abridged does a better job of portraying him, because it at least keeps consistent with the comedic tone it had set for itself by saying it was a glitch because of a rushed release and he decided to act like this was all planned and he's some kind of evil mastermind.
2. Whatever his name was/Rape King: That's how little fucks I gave about him. Who I'm talking about is that weird pixie king-rape-guy in Alfheim Online. The guy that imprisoned Asuna. He was such a stupid villain that he makes me look like a scientist with a Ph.D. by comparison. What perplexes me, is, again: Why? Just... why... Why does he exist? Why does he do what he does? Why is he so bland and lacking in texture? Where is the texture?! A good protagonist doesn't exist without a good antagonist! -50 points!
3. Edge Gun: Or was it Death Gun? Or was it Sterben? My point is, this guy is like the child of Darth Vader and Shadow the Hedgehog that also went through an emo phase recently. Also, I get that he's several people at once, but this guy is still stupid. Why he exists will forever be a question to me. Also, the fact that the fucking government hires Kirito to hunt him down. The fucking government hires a teenager to do shit for them because they are less competent. It was at this point that I lost all faith I had in this series ever becoming remotely good.
4. Fuck knows: Whatever villain appears in the 4th arc, if any at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give a fuck to spend the character design budget to animate a new villain because of how little they cared. I heard the 4th arc is a bit better, but I don't feel like watching it. My relationship with this show is already too skewered to do so.
5. That guy from the movie: Yeah, the SAO movie. I watched it. I don't remember the guy's name, but his daughter died in SAO so he tried to recreate her from the memories of people but it'd kill them or something. Now, see, they upgraded their writing to elementary school levels. Now, at least the villain has a Freudian Excuse/"motivation," so to speak to do his evil shit. He's not just a random piece of shit, he actually cares and loves something enough to seem like a human being. This was a step in the right direction, except they fucked up the movie with all the rest of its bullshit that I just don't want to point out because I'm sleepy.

There's more, but I honestly don't hold the mental fortitude to write all of the flaws down. Go on youtube, some people make several-hour-long videos about why SAO is bad.

Post and discuss below and stuff.

Accel World is Reki Kawahara's only good creation. Despite it's flaws, it's actually pretty good.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Trigger Warning

I may, or may not have been slightly intoxicated while writing this. Viewer reader discretion is advised.​

Hello there!

You're here because of one of three reasons:

1. You hate Sword Art Online with passion and wanted to see me rant on it.
2. You love Sword Art Online with passion and wanted to tell me I'm wrong/disprove my claims/etc.
3. You clicked here because the title is a bunch of clickbait.

Now, without further ado, let's get to the point.

As is obvious to you, the anime community generally falls into two categories: Those that like Sword Art Online and those that think it is bad. Now, I fall into the latter type, and here's why:

First of all, Sword Art Online is far from perfect. And by that I mean it has so many flaws in it that it's comparable to tissue taken from a patient of IV-stage cancer. Trying to dig down, deep into the very source of this malignant tumor is risky, so I want to warn you. Now, let's start off with the very focus of the show, as is appropriate; our protagonist.

[1. The Protagonist.]

Enter Kirigaya Kazuto. With his own pet nickname "Kirito Jesus-kun," attributed to him most likely by the anti-fans of the series. Kirigaya, or, Kirito, as he calls himself online, is a leet gamer with legit skills. Or at least, that's what is established early on. I can accept that. But what is it that makes him bad?

Now, Kirito starts off in the show at: "Barely, but fairly likable," and quickly drops to: "I fucking hate him." That is, again, my opinion, so don't call me out on this. You're entitled to whatever opinion you hold of him.

Why is he so bad, though? You see, by himself, Kirito isn't that bad of a protagonist. It's not him by himself that he makes us hate him. If we were to see his day-to-day life as an anime instead of SAO, I bet he'd be a fairly average, if decent main character. If he was fleshed out a bit more, given a piece of backstory or actual motivation, maybe I'd be able to actually relate to him in about 10% instead of him being the Gary Sue that he is. He falls far below the average on the scale of "Likable Shounen protagonists," and a bit above on the "edge," scale. Why? Let me explain.

The "magic" of the first arc of Sword Art Online was the atmosphere. The whole premise of the show is that the characters are stuck in a world full of death and despair, and they can't get out. That being said, I liked this at first. They didn't go too overboard with the theme, but it was an ever-present and immersive feeling of fear. It was almost haunting and actually dragged me into this mess a bit further.

Of course, they instantly fuck that up by having him be the best player in the game that is undefeatable. Now, look, the mechanics of SAO as a video game are clunky at best -- you need to use gesticulation to manipulate the menu which removes many classic RPG features from being accessed (like keeping items tabbed, or chugging potions quickly during battles,) and it removes the classic RPG classes from the play, essentially making the concept of strategy and tactics inert by making all battles focus on "SWORD. TO. FACE," in the boss' direction. Why they try to make it out like there are any actual tactics behind swish-swish-swoosh is a mystery to me. This is bad. Very bad.

But let's go back to the "magic."

Taking that into the spotlight, think about it. The world where anyone can die. Where mistakes are permanent and actions have consequences: that's what they start off with -- what they hang in front of you.

And instantly, that's fucked up by the one protagonist who can't come close to being hurt -- and yes, once, Kirito almost dies, which I admit was a pleasant surprise in comparison to that... one... other... time...

See, having a protagonist that's unbeatable by 95% of the things that exist is... well, fucking boring. And that boredom is doubled by the fact that it blends itself well with the disappointment we receive at the show's premise being ruined. That's very bad. And that's very bad by itself. And maybe the show would be able to redeem itself a bit later on had they stopped at that, very point. It still had potential. Still had the light of hope in front of it.

...

But no, they fucked it up further. Let me get to that.

[2. - The Bullshit Fairy.]

Asuna was likable, I admit.
Kirito, on another hand, barely made it on the radar of my attention.

But you want to know who really ruined it?

Her.

Whatever little tension the show managed to build over time was ruined by this thing. This "perfect child." This, this... disgusting excuse for an inconsequential character.

Like I said above, the whole premise is that actions have consequences. So what do the writers decide is a good idea? That's right: Fuck the premise.

They... they create this abomination and have her die to create sadness and "motivation," for the characters. And it was at this point that I knew how it would end up. That's right, she comes back, getting revived. And it's at this point that the "dread" and "death," were ruined for me. The atmosphere and immersion, that although lacking, was still existent at this point, faded away with one character's resurrection, proving just how much the writers hated being good at writing.

Now, I'm not saying Yui is a bad character by her own, much like her "father," she has some redeeming qualities. Rather, it is her role in the story that the writers attach to her like a huge metallic ball with a chain that screws her up as a character. And this is more disappointing when you think that both Yui and Kirito had tremendous potential as characters, as well as plenty of space for development.

We never get to see that, because, frankly, and not meaning to boast, I could definitely write a better show than Sword Art Online by myself and with no supporting writers. I mean, hell, Sword Art Online Abridged had better character development than the original. Not even kidding. There's a whole advanced analysis video on youtube about it. That's right. A parody of the show that actually did things better.

Having addressed the problems with two of the worst characters in the show except for the villains, let's move on to another problem that is just as pressing.

[3. The Screwed Pacing.]

Can you imagine Reki Kawahara's reaction on their business meeting? "Hey, hey! Idea over here! How about we call it... Sword Art Online..."

And everyone nodded.

"But only the first arc of the first season is about Sword Art Online! Hahaha, I'm a fucking genius!"

And somehow, against all odds, everyone, fucking, nodded. How this decision came to pass is, was, and will forever be a mystery to me, and all people who exercise logical thought as their main philosophy.

I genuinely believe that the show would be far, far better if they prolonged the Aincrad arc and threw out the fairy-pixie machine bullshit. It was stupid and made Asuna into the typical damsel in distress, instantly dropping my levels of respect for her as a character from "Likable," to "Fuck you and fuck this show and everything it stands for and represents."

At that point, when I discovered what the arc was about, I just stopped watching. I couldn't bear the pain. I skipped to the ending of the season and, with agony, suffered through it before moving onto Gungale Online, which was comparatively just as bad if not worse. I'll get to this in a minute. Let me finish this part first.

Another point about this I wanted to address was the stupidity that this arc radiated. If I'm a stupidity furnace as a person (which I quite assure you, I am,) then this whole arc was a stupidity factory.

Let's review:

1. The villain is a cyber-rapist.
2. Asuna is turned into a damsel in distress.
3. Kirito's sister is... in love with him?!

What I want to say, think about the writer/executive who had the 3 ideas above. How anyone in the studio agreed to any of the 3 is sick and should be executed for incompetence as a human being.

[3.1 Gungale Online is shit.]

Just wanted to point out that in a game with guns, this fucker uses a fucking lightsaber. At that point, I stopped watching. There was no more hope. I get it, he's a kendo adept or whatever, and SAO gave him sword experience -- but deflecting fucking bullets with a lightsaber is impossible. No human nervous system has the processing speed to keep track of projectiles as fast as bullets, virtual world or not. This is so sinful from a writing--no, not writing, scientific--no, just thinking perspective, that I wanted to kill myself just from the intense back pains I got from imagining his spine twisting from all of these impossible, virtual acrobatics. (PS: I dare you to open the link below and look at that gif I posted.)

Because the writers say so.​

[4. Kirito Jesus-kun's blessings fucking curses of Fanservice.]

Of course, this is an anime.

Anime without fanservice doesn't exist. Any anime will have at least something a bit pervy at one point or another unless it is some grimdark horror, or other terrific thing and shit. That is simply how the world and how anime works. You have to live with it. I don't mind a panty shot or there... but this show? For all the dread of the first arc, takes the cake as one of the most perverted things created by mankind ever since the concept of perversion. Well at least there's no rape!

Oh, wait. This show has rape too. Sorry, I forgot. (Though, it's only implied. Still. I find that unacceptable.)

Let's review:

1. There's (implied,) rape.
   
2. And then there's stuff like this, because why not. (I want to point out there's a scene later with her wearing only underwear, so don't complain about me complaining. This show is about as perverted as the average succubus demon.)

[5. Curse of Bad Villains.]

The antagonists.

The sinister fellows in the alleyway.

The dark overlords.

Curse squad.

The bad guys.

Ma' boys.

They are always there to fuck up your day.

...

That being said, Sword Art Online has some of the worst villains in existence. I think it could get a custom award for some of the worst villains to exist. Let's go through one of them at a time, shall we?

1. Kayaba Akihiko: The developer of SAO. Why does he trap people to die in a game? Why does he have a god complex? This is how the show explains it: Fuck knows why fuck knows when. No backstory, no motive. He's so bland that the meals on the average Hell's Kitchen episode suddenly look appealing and appetizing. I'm safely going to go ahead and shamelessly say that Sword Art Online Abridged does a better job of portraying him, because it at least keeps consistent with the comedic tone it had set for itself by saying it was a glitch because of a rushed release and he decided to act like this was all planned and he's some kind of evil mastermind.
2. Whatever his name was/Rape King: That's how little fucks I gave about him. Who I'm talking about is that weird pixie king-rape-guy in Alfheim Online. The guy that imprisoned Asuna. He was such a stupid villain that he makes me look like a scientist with a Ph.D. by comparison. What perplexes me, is, again: Why? Just... why... Why does he exist? Why does he do what he does? Why is he so bland and lacking in texture? Where is the texture?! A good protagonist doesn't exist without a good antagonist! -50 points!
3. Edge Gun: Or was it Death Gun? Or was it Sterben? My point is, this guy is like the child of Darth Vader and Shadow the Hedgehog that also went through an emo phase recently. Also, I get that he's several people at once, but this guy is still stupid. Why he exists will forever be a question to me. Also, the fact that the fucking government hires Kirito to hunt him down. The fucking government hires a teenager to do shit for them because they are less competent. It was at this point that I lost all faith I had in this series ever becoming remotely good.
4. Fuck knows: Whatever villain appears in the 4th arc, if any at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give a fuck to spend the character design budget to animate a new villain because of how little they cared. I heard the 4th arc is a bit better, but I don't feel like watching it. My relationship with this show is already too skewered to do so.
5. That guy from the movie: Yeah, the SAO movie. I watched it. I don't remember the guy's name, but his daughter died in SAO so he tried to recreate her from the memories of people but it'd kill them or something. Now, see, they upgraded their writing to elementary school levels. Now, at least the villain has a Freudian Excuse/"motivation," so to speak to do his evil shit. He's not just a random piece of shit, he actually cares and loves something enough to seem like a human being. This was a step in the right direction, except they fucked up the movie with all the rest of its bullshit that I just don't want to point out because I'm sleepy.

There's more, but I honestly don't hold the mental fortitude to write all of the flaws down. Go on youtube, some people make several-hour-long videos about why SAO is bad.

Post and discuss below and stuff.

Also, the villain of the fourth arc was child cancer. A lot of child cancer. The main character was Asuna. Everyone she hangs out with that isn't part of the Jesus-kun harem(including Klein)? Child cancer. Not that the characters are cancerous. I'm saying they all have cancer or some shit.


EDIT: HAD. HAD cancer. Cause they're all dead from Child Cancer by the time of the movie, more than likely.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

Why is it so important for everyone to dislike sao?

Yes, the premise lures you in with false promises of a serious story about people trapped in a death game. Instead you get a mainstream anime with fanservice and full shounen package.

Sao is not an exceptional anime, it does not reinvent the genre or do anything out of the ordinary. That's it. You don't have to like it. But every time someone is being very vocal about why this or that show is bad... it makes me feel guilty for enjoying it.

Dunno, it just sucks when people do that, man. Used to really look forward to sao's episodes then the community poisoned it for me.

And not just sao. Any book, game, movie. These things dont bring anyone any harm. If you dont like it, the best response is not to pay for it.

It's not important. It's just fun.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

A nasuverse expert who was helping me with a plot of a fate rp that was I planning on running told me that vampires, are stronger than actual gods. The premise of fate stay night, is also shakey because the grail isn't the be all end all device. There are other miracles that if these same magi could have gone for instead, would have and would have no use for the grail. So the story of fate in itself is just a hobbling mess, but it is a mess than nasu admitted wasn't the best thing he could have written. It's a typical dating sim with sex, routes and super powers. If you want to break down why fate is utter garbage, you just have to look at the lore and universe itself. It's expansive but not properly written. It's more along the lines of a man winging it and throwing things together, than it is actually being a good story.

I wish this forum wasn't so pg. I could get the screen shot of shiro fucking Sakura and calling her an educated prostitute. But hey, lemme address the rest of your post. I just had to expand upon why fate sucks and how it is Waifu trash. Which you somehow are offended by because you think fate is above the likes of harem garbage.

Oh I don't have to address the sleazy part, as in my stream of conscipusness. I already pointed out why fate is built upon a sleazy hentai base.

It's not meant as a joke. The Edward Cullen thing is yes, but karna gilgamesh and the gods themselves. Are less than vampires. Because lul

The stuff written in the h-scenes weren't actually written by Nasu. He passed that shit off faster than a super car filled with NOs.

What? Vampires are pretty shit in the nasuverse, dude. Only a few vampires are comparably powerful, and they aren't god level. True Ancestors are powerful, but they're still not god levels. They're just a bit stronger, and don't burn. So yeah, the Edward Cullen bit is a little warranted with true ancestors, but not actual vampires.

 

[Iskandar]

A nasuverse expert who was helping me with a plot of a fate rp that was I planning on running told me that vampires, are stronger than actual gods. The premise of fate stay night, is also shakey because the grail isn't the be all end all device. There are other miracles that if these same magi could have gone for instead, would have and would have no use for the grail. So the story of fate in itself is just a hobbling mess, but it is a mess than nasu admitted wasn't the best thing he could have written. It's a typical dating sim with sex, routes and super powers. If you want to break down why fate is utter garbage, you just have to look at the lore and universe itself. It's expansive but not properly written. It's more along the lines of a man winging it and throwing things together, than it is actually being a good story.

I wish this forum wasn't so pg. I could get the screen shot of shiro fucking Sakura and calling her an educated prostitute. But hey, lemme address the rest of your post. I just had to expand upon why fate sucks and how it is Waifu trash. Which you somehow are offended by because you think fate is above the likes of harem garbage.

Oh I don't have to address the sleazy part, as in my stream of conscipusness. I already pointed out why fate is built upon a sleazy hentai base.

It's not meant as a joke. The Edward Cullen thing is yes, but karna gilgamesh and the gods themselves. Are less than vampires. Because lul

Oh lord... the amount of false information in this post is just... unbearable. First off, your 'nasuverse expert' sounds like a shit one. I am not too well versed in the Nasuverse. While vampires can be powerful, that is really only the case in Tsukhime and even then vampires aren't even "Vampires". They are people imitating true ancestors and not even close to being on the level of Gods. They are Dead apostles and DAA's and True ancestors and would get absolutely fucked by Gil or Karna(Besides Arcuied but that is another can of worms). Secondly, your argument about the grail makes no sense... at all. The purpose of the Grail is to materialize and reach the root. Which is the goal of basically every Magi. There are other methods and attempts and True magics that have use, the Grail is a specific one used by specific families. Which is why you don't have hundreds of them going on in most cases, outside of spinoffs like Apocraphya and stuff but that's well explained. Lastly, Fate isn't even about the h-scenes. As Dalamus said, he passed on those as he typically does. The Scenes that replace them are so much better, plus most of Nasu's later works have no Sex scenes and are extremely well written. The Nasuverse is fairly well explained across Tsukhime/HA/Fate/Mahoyo. It is so complex that looking at it from one series makes it seem poorly written.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

The stuff written in the h-scenes weren't actually written by Nasu. He passed that shit off faster than a super car filled with NOs.

What? Vampires are pretty shit in the nasuverse, dude. Only a few vampires are comparably powerful, and they aren't god level. True Ancestors are powerful, but they're still not god levels. They're just a bit stronger, and don't burn. So yeah, the Edward Cullen bit is a little warranted with true ancestors, but not actual vampires.

Oh lord... the amount of false information in this post is just... unbearable.

First off, your 'nasuverse expert' sounds like a shit one. I am not too well versed in the Nasuverse. While vampires can be powerful, that is really only the case in Tsukhime and even then vampires aren't even "Vampires". They are people imitating true ancestors and not even close to being on the level of Gods. They are Dead apostles and DAA's and True ancestors and would get absolutely fucked by Gil or Karna(Besides Arcuied but that is another can of worms).
Is this an actual fact that exists within fate stay night or is this your interpretation of the powerlevels of characters in the multiverse? This sounds of original battle dome territory, like super man vs goku stuff. If I can actually read something in which these statements are backed by actual events in fate, I'll check it out. If they're not,then who's to say your take is any better than my fate expert lol.

GOD I WISH I REMEMBERED HER USER NAME.
Secondly, your argument about the grail makes no sense... at all. The purpose of the Grail is to materialize and reach the root. Which is the goal of basically every Magi.
That's what I thought at the time. It's only common sense that if the grail is the only miracle/true magic, that it must be the be all end all device. But according to my former "expert", if you introduce a second miracle into the rp. The magi would have not had any reason to get the grail, as any of the miracles were on par with the grail according to this person.

But if you know where I can read about the other miracles and actually get some first hand experience of where the usefulness of the other miracles are compared to the grail, it'd be great. I'm pretty sure the heaven's feel route has another miracle,but I'm not sure.
There are other methods and attempts and True magics that have use, the Grail is a specific one used by specific families. Which is why you don't have hundreds of them going on in most cases, outside of spinoffs like Apocraphya and stuff but that's well explained.

Lastly, Fate isn't even about the h-scenes. As Dalamus said, he passed on those as he typically does. The Scenes that replace them are so much better, plus most of Nasu's later works have no Sex scenes and are extremely well written. The Nasuverse is fairly well explained across Tsukhime/HA/Fate/Mahoyo. It is so complex that looking at it from one series makes it seem poorly written.
So he just let some monkey with a keyboard dirty his series? Where can I read an interview regarding this fact though? It's interesting that two people claim he never wrote any of the H scenes.

I'm not hugely into the nasuverse. I simply didn't like fate stay night and never got into tsukihime or any other works of nasu. There are moments in which fate is awesome,but they're few and far between. However if you could back up your claims, I'd be more than happy to check this stuff out myself. I even have the fate VN on my computer handy if you can give me general scenes in their routes where I can confirm these claims.

 

[Dalamus Ulom]

I'm not hugely into the nasuverse. I simply didn't like fate stay night and never got into tsukihime or any other works of nasu. There are moments in which fate is awesome,but they're few and far between. However if you could back up your claims, I'd be more than happy to check this stuff out myself. I even have the fate VN on my computer handy if you can give me general scenes in their routes where I can confirm these claims.

Okay, wow. I guess the whole "Nasu didn't write the H-scenes" thing was a myth. Only mentions of it I can find easily are on reddit, and I'm to lazy to go and ask for sources for the sake of this argument. I may do so later on my own time. But you deserve a response sometime in the next millennia or so. I guess this guy on reddit had a pretty good idea and expelenation for the sex scenes. Mind, this was a response to some random dickhead.

Gotta thank AdelKoenig for this shit, cause damn this is a good explanation.

* * * * *​

Have you ever stop to think that maybe Nasu wasn't trying to write something sexual but instead trying to write something realistic?
The H scenes are awkward because they are about awkward teens having awkward first time sex. He uses awkward metaphors to make the awkwardness even more apparent.

The problem most people have with the alternate scenes is that they break the internal consistency of the world Nasu created.

Edit: the guy deleted his account while I wrote an in-depth response to his response to this comment. I am going to paste it below instead of just trashing it:

I'm sorry if I came across as insulting. That was not my intention. I was seriously asking if you had ever thought about it, as most people who have strong negative opinions about sex scenes are just a knee jerk reaction about sex in general. I was genuinely curious as to whether or not you were one of them.

You asked why many like the H-scenes better, when they are clearly not very arousing, and I answered that. It is a common interpretation among many readers that the scenes being awkward and not arousing fits the overall story.

Many readers also vehemently dislike how the RN alt scenes break the rules of the universe outright. This leads to the opinion that the H-scenes are better simply because they are consistent with the rest of the VN.

The everyone is 18+ thing was added by the English TL to cover their asses in countries that have different child porn laws than Japan. The ages of the characters are clearly stated within the VN and include 15-17 year olds. The Alt scenes were added and the ages ret-conned up a year for everyone for RN. This was so that everyone was at least 16 and the story could be sold on PlayStation platforms with the equivilent of a teen rating.

Nasu didn't want to write H-scenes, but he did because there was no VN community outside the Eroge VN community at that time. People wouldn't even look at a VN that didn't have eroge.

That being said, once the VN was labled as an Eroge, people would give it a chance. Nasu had a strong enough story that it wouldn't have to have titillating H scenes to keep readers interested. Nasu had the freedom to write the H-scenes however he wanted, and they were written as awkward.

As for the mana transfers being a shoehorned excuse for sex, they aren't. Tsukihime (and even KnK before it) establish the connection between magic and sex. The mana transfers in F/SN is a natural evolution from that. In fact, sex and magic are extremely connected in most of the world's mythos. The Arthurian, Greek and Japanese mythologies all have abundant references to sex and magic, just to name a few.

* * * * *​

Like I said, that's pretty fuckin' good explanation.

With the vampires, I'll quote the wikia, because it's easy and pretty accurate when there aren't any trolls.

As per the wikia page on True Ancestors, "True Ancestors (真祖, Shinso?) are incarnated nature spirits (akin to the Elementals). They are vampiric creatures from birth, however, unlike the Dead Apostles and other blood-sucking species, the root of their bloodlust is psychological rather than physical. Also, because they are part of nature, they can use the power of Marble Phantasm to change the world around them accordingly to their thoughts. They can be classified as a type of large fairy." Basically, true ancestors were never 'Human', having been born vampires. So the Edward Cullen's of the Nasuverse are actually fairies and nature elementals.

As per the wikia, "Dead Apostles (死徒, Shito?) are humans that became vampires either by the use of Magecraft (like Nrvnqsr Chaos, though this kind is rare) or by the actions of another vampire of similar nature (in this case, either a True Ancestor or another Dead Apostle). Among the creatures that fall under the vampire category, they are the most numerous. The main targets of the Executors of the Burial Agency, an organization created for the purpose of stopping the spreading of the heresy known as vampires by exterminating the Dead Apostles and sealing The Twenty-seven Dead Apostle Ancestors." Basically, they were the shitty peons of the True Ancestors until said ancestors got killed. These vampires physically need blood in order to keep their bodies together, and can't survive in direct sunlight, unlike the True Ancestors.

You'd need to have the Tsukihime VN to officially "confirm" my info, but like I said before, the wikia's pretty trustable, and links to my sources shall be provided below.


Source of the explanation for the h-scenes, by thr user AdelKoenig
About HF h-scenes • r/fatestaynight

Nasuverse wikia page on vampires
Vampire

Nasuverse wikia page on True Ancestors
True Ancestor

Nasuverse wikia page on Dead Apostles
Dead Apostle

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Okay, wow. I guess the whole "Nasu didn't write the H-scenes" thing was a myth. Only mentions of it I can find easily are on reddit, and I'm to lazy to go and ask for sources for the sake of this argument. I may do so later on my own time. But you deserve a response sometime in the next millennia or so. I guess this guy on reddit had a pretty good idea and expelenation for the sex scenes. Mind, this was a response to some random dickhead.

This stuff isn't particularly important to me, so it's fine to leave it as is. But I actually want to read fate vampire interactions and fate material during the age of gods. Is this all derived from statistic books sold after the fact?(refering to the wiki)

 

[Iskandar]

I would like to add that Vampires and Dead Apostles would be squashed by Heroic spirits, whereas Ancestors are another bag. A lot of them wouldn't be able to handle the stronger Heroic Spirits, but a few would be able to take on Gil, Karna, Iskandar and Artoria(The super strong ones), though the Ancestors would most likely lose. If True Ancestors(which two are by beginning of Tsukihime) were around, they could destroy the Heroic spirits, Gil and Artoria may be able to hold them off but even then they could lose. Depends on if CG Artoria showed up. Gil would have tons of Anti-Vampire Noble Phantasms and Ea would most likely be able to take out a True Ancestor.

So like, DA < Heroic Spirits, DAA =/< Heroic Spirits, TA </=/> Heroic Spirits(Depending on the Spirit)

As for the Miracles, you are correct. There are other ways to Obtain true magic, as you must reach the Root. There are only five true magics, and we know of three of them. Now if someone won the Holy Grail War, they could obtain a sixth magic, as the HGW has not been successful in reaching the Root. Most Magus crave for this and have tried many rituals to obtain magic. Another note, you have to be the first person to use that route to the Root in order to obtain true magic, and if you touch the Root you will go poof. True Magics can be inherited as we see with Heaven's Feel, the Third Magic.

I do recommend trying FSN again, especially the Realta Nua version. I am somewhat new to the Nasuverse and it can get convoluted but if ya play most of the games/VNs you can easily understand the Verse. I haven't gotten into Tsukihime but have heard only praise of it. If ya can't get into FSN, try reading Fate/Strange Fake or playing Fate/Extra. Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is also really good, better than FSN.

 

[AnimeGenork]

Well, I will say that something had always stuck in my craw about SAO. I liked it well enough, I guess, but there had always been that niggling thing that refused to let me love it, so to speak.

Birdsie , I would like to thank you for articulating what had apparently been bothering me for a few years now. Thank you.

And I shall close this with saying my favorite character was Klein.
He was really the only reason I continued watching it.
Also my closure problem.
That is all.
*phases out*

 

[Hall Kervean]

I like Klein and the black dude.
I think that might be sexist since they're the only non-Kirito/villain dudes in the entire show, but hey.
Also the females are portrayed so poorly.