Viewpoint Why Don't People Do More Crossovers?

[Caroline1539]

Hello everyone! I've seen a lot of people, including myself, looking for fandom roleplays that are niche. The question that I've been wondering for a while is this: why isn't there more of an acceptance of crossing over different fandoms in order to be able to play with both interests the players want?

Now, I understand some fandoms might not cross over well with others, due to power imbalance and tone discrepancy. But I think that, especially in the case of fandoms where the characters are easily adaptable to other situations, that it would be a fun exercise and would lead to interesting interactions across the board.

What do you guys think? Would it be nice to have more people attempt to cross over fandoms, or is the current sentiment of pure fandom roleplay + OC content more appealing?

 

[GrumpySwallow]

I'm the GM for a Super Smash Bros. RP on this site, and even though SSB is a crossover in itself I have strict rules for outside fandom characters being PCs. The reason for this is that I want the RP to remain Super Smash Brothers at its core. If I allow any and all video game/anime/etc. characters into the game, it becomes a multiverse RP instead of specifically Super Smash Brothers. Usually some other fandom dominates the game and then it becomes a Dragon Ball and Bleach RP with Mario hanging around somewhere in the background. This comes from personal experience.

That's the reason I tend to be iffy on crossover RPs. It's easy for the main themes of the RP to be lost and for things to get confusing and chaotic if there's a lot of crossing over going on, and there's no form of control, especially when the themes of the two or more fandoms being crossed over are drastically different from one another. Fandom crossover RPs also mean that I need to have an understanding of the fandoms being crossed over, and I may be interested and knowledgeable of only one of the fandoms being crossed.

 

[nerdy tangents]

So my current longest running roleplay is a crossover. It’s between Wednesday (Netflix tv show) and Harry Potter.

We did have to fudge a bit of the timeline to make things add up but otherwise it’s been a great roleplay.

I think part of the issue is people get too hung up on “this is what’s canon” and can’t make the necessary adjustments to make things work with other ideas.

But if your willing to be just a little bit flexible about minor details (like say dates) then it’s actually really rewarding to add two different worlds together.

Especially when their very similar to start with, like Wednesday is clearly inspired (at least somewhat) by Harry Potter anyway so it’s an easy fit.

But even something like say Harry Potter and Downton Abbey could work as long as you don’t have to have each canon be an exact replica of the source material.

So yeah personally I think people get too hung up on replicating the source material exactly as it’s presented (just with their own OCs thrown in) when in reality canon is just a jumping off point.

 

[Idea]

There are two types of crossovers. The first is what I’ll label the “Fanservice Crossover”, and it essentially consists of finding with it without an excuse a bunch of characters from different fandoms together and the point is simply and uniquely to show those characters in the same place, interacting with each other, be that a chat or a fight. The actual contents and meaning of either are a secondary concern in that kind of crossover - so long as both characters get to show off and there is a bare minimum amount of interplay the goal is met. I think 99% of crossovers in media are like this, functioning as Easter eggs or fanservice and explicitly not a part of canon.

The second type, far more rare, I will label the “Exploration Crossover”. An exploration crossover is a story about the clash of two different worlds, realities or characters, orchestrated such that both upend the other and either allow insight into unexplored aspects of the settings and characters through confrontation with something entirely alien to them, or shows how we have been shown operates on such a different field or contrast. Whatever the case exploration abounds. In reality an Exploration Crossover doesn’t even need to be a crossover to work, it's goal is not to show off fandoms per se, but to highlight and explore the contrast of characters or settings, and indeed it’s often better off not being a fandom, in order to allow a more precise set up for its themes. The reasons it has to be one are the unique details of the characters, settings and other such ideas in certain fandoms, explored down to minutia by those both willing to praise them and break them down.

Even rare than either of these types is the overlap between them. Note that the goal of one is often contrary to the other. Because even a half-decent exploration of a character will highlight faults and virtues alike, but that is hardly conducive to just bashing characters into a scene together, and Exploration Crossovers have a lot less room for half-assed explanations for why a crossover can exist at all. Sometimes you won't get that big fight because these are two characters who have no reason to fight and would probably just get along. Sometimes, you won't be able to crossover certain fandoms in an exploration way because those fandoms just don't mesh well together, or neither has a means to crossover, or rules just lack a proper means of translation / comparison. Sometimes "just for fun" and "taking things seriously" work in tandem, other times they are bitter enemies.

Now despite my wording, while I won't deny I have a particular preference here, I don't actually think Fanservice Crossovers are bad per se. I dislike them most of the time, but in the end of the day if people think it's fun all the power to them. That being said, there is definitely a contrast in the approach, and I think a lot of people approach writing what they want to be an exploration crossover like they're writing a fanservice one.


There are three major reasons why I dislike crossover RPs. One of them is that I don't like cannon characters in RPs. I might see them used as NPCs when absolutely necessary, but otherwise I try to avoid them like the plague, and seeing "cannon characters allowed" is one of the signals for me to forgo interest in a fandom RP. Crossover RPs are almost exclusively centered around crossing over one or more characters, and this will mean crossing over cannon characters. Otherwise an OC would do the trick a lot of the time and no crossover would be needed in the first place. Second, characters can be completely all over the place. Character variety is a good thing, but we're not talking about each character having their own role or very different backgrounds - no, we're talking a scale of a whole different reality, power levels, quite possibly types of knowledge, social norms and technological/scientific advancement. Not moderate variety but utter chaos. The breakdown or any sense of stable rules or a hierarchy doesn't help either.

The third reason is the excessive attachment to individual fandoms and/or characters within those. This is more from simple experience, but from what I've seen crossover RPs are largely populated by people who joined to play a specific character irrespective of the wider context in which they get to do so. I don't think it would be far fetched to suggest that perhaps one of the reasons why that kind of player is often so unwilling to cede ground on that image they have of the character is due to many being inexperienced as roleplayers, but even then I think the simple attachment is a bigger factor on why I've seen such players consistently try to bend things to try to get the characters to do the things they picture them doing, and so unwilling to let said characters have a real failure unless they only have failures.

In fact, I do think this attachment to the character being so tied to participating in the crossover in the first place is why the approach to the crossover is often the Fanservice Crossover type even if on paper the player wants to make an exploration types (or claims to anyway). A rushed pacing to get to the confrontations, characters occasionally just breaking character to create interactions the players couldn't make work out otherwise, general carelessness on whether things go together at all....



Long story short: My problem with multifandom/crossover is it usually attracts people who are interested in their own attachment to a given fandom character first and foremost, leading to an approach that is akin to Fanservice Crossovers. The necessary presence of cannon characters this implies, along with the chaotic nature and the tug of war of people unable to help the narrative due to wanting to put this image they have of a character in the RP (as opposed to the character itself) is what keeps me away from the idea of crossovers. Franky, I'm not sure this can be fixed, as the most effective fixes would involve just not making it a multifandom / crossover.

 

[Jannah]

It's immersion breaking and I do OC only when I dabble in fandom stuff. Something tells me that those looking to do crossovers aren't looking to play OC's, thus I have zero interest.

 

[MxKit]

Yeah, I think it's that, at least in this community, a lot of people who are interested in fandom RP at all are interested in OCs only, OCxCC stuff, or just really only want that one fandom without it being "diluted."

And no hate, no judgement! I can totally get only wanting One Particular Thing out of RP, even if I lean in the exact opposite direction with only wanting to play specific canon characters and/or very specific CCxCC ships. That means that sometimes I am not only open to but actually actively want crossover stuff! (I have a section in my own RP want ad specifically for crossover ships...) But it also means that crossovers don't help me find most of what I'm looking for, either. And this community specifically doesn't have the type of "playerbase" that's as interested in the same things that are more common in, say, the Dreamwidth RP community, which is almost entirely multifandom roleplay and doesn't focus as much on OCs, especially not fandom OCs.

If someone solely wants to play Pokemon OCs, playing a Pokemon/One Piece crossover with someone who's more (or even solely) interested in and familiar with One Piece isn't going to be as appealing. If someone really wants to play in the Harry Potter universe and have their character having adventures at Hogwarts, they might feel like figuring out how to combine that world with Dungeons & Dragons detracts from what they like about the HP series. And if someone just wants to play their OC off of one of the Stranger Things characters, a crossover isn't going to help them.

And again, I totally get it! Personally, I have some characters I'd be nearly as happy to play off any other characters I'm familiar with and enjoy as off the characters I'm specifically looking to play them off of. I didn't really bother including that in my search because it didn't seem like something I'd get bites on! But in most cases, I really want to play a specific CCxCC ship and that's most of what I'm craving RP-wise. A crossover isn't going to help me for those specific characters and cravings either, or only a very specific crossover would with someone who's also open to a weird crossover ship. And this place doesn't seem to have many people who are taking the "I want to play this character, but I don't care if they're in their canon setting or somewhere else, and I don't care what character(s) I play them off of" in their searches; the RP desires tend to be more specific than that, in ways that don't lend themselves as easily to crossovers.

 

[Onmyoji]

It very much depends on fandoms and roleplays.

Personally, I dislike crossovers and I don't see myself engaging in crossover roleplays, regardless of the fandoms involved. Unfortunately, for a fandom rp to be fun for me, it has to be canon-compliant. I also dislike AUs that change canon too much for the same reason (e.g. modern AU of a historical fandom). Crossovers are not canon-compliant by default.
Unless it's a fandom that is already a crossover (Super Smash Bros is a good example. the canon is already a crossover, so adding more crossover characters feels natural, assuming there is some balancing).

 

[nerdy tangents]

So I think the responses here illustrate the real problem. The assumption that crossovers are diluting the purity of the source material in some way.

Despite the OP directly calling out the difference between a compatible and incompatible crossover and myself giving a direct example of a compatible crossover.

The responses are uniformally “oh it’s always about destroying the source material”.

Y’all DC and Marvel crossover in the source material. Because the real world companies that created the material borrow from one another anyway and are aware that it’s an easy crossover to make among their fans.

So this idea that your fandoms can’t touch at all ever or else they are ruined is kinda silly.

Like yeah if you tried to crossover Downton Abbey and House of the Dragon you would have to make some pretty substantial changes to one of the other universe.

But if you crossover say Marvel and DC you don’t really have to change anything you just have to merge the timelines and that’s kinda it. The core premise is pretty much the same thing already just slightly different interpretations.

Same thing with Harry Potter and Wednesday, the core premise is essentially the same thing just in different locations and one was written twenty years after the other.

But there is nothing about either universe that really contradicts each other and all that you need to do to make a crossover is just combine individual timelines.


In addition crossovers don’t always or only include canons. In the same way some fandom roleplayers only play canons and others prefer OCs, that part seems to be down entirely to personal preference.

Again case in point my current crossover is all OCs. I did a crossover years ago however where we each played canons. It very much depends on the individuals preference.

 

[Caroline1539]

Bumping this to see what others might think of the ideas presented here!

 

[cheeseburger90210]

Hello everyone! I've seen a lot of people, including myself, looking for fandom roleplays that are niche. The question that I've been wondering for a while is this: why isn't there more of an acceptance of crossing over different fandoms in order to be able to play with both interests the players want?

Now, I understand some fandoms might not cross over well with others, due to power imbalance and tone discrepancy. But I think that, especially in the case of fandoms where the characters are easily adaptable to other situations, that it would be a fun exercise and would lead to interesting interactions across the board.

What do you guys think? Would it be nice to have more people attempt to cross over fandoms, or is the current sentiment of pure fandom roleplay + OC content more appealing?

I think crossover is great if its within the cannon of reality for one and within the genre for two. Thats what I hate about fortnite.

Lets go with cannon first. Say you are role-playing Kick@$$. I do not think Klingons would go good with that, however maybe a Marvel or DC character would? it violate the forums reality to add Star Wars characters. However not always, take The Marvels for example; a crossplay that worked that no one liked; because the characters in the crossplay did not act like the characters in their films.

However it does work in horror. Like Nightmare on Elm. Street might go good with Jason Voor.? It all depends on how those character are played. However adding Superman or James Bond to a horror would not work.

So it can be done, as long as its is within the genre........

right? do you agree?

 

[GojiBean]

Hoyo!

Crossovers are notoriously difficult to roleplay because, in general, differing source material simply aren't meant to work together.

99.99% of all stories are standalone meaning they were meant to occupy their own world/universe, their own timeline, with their own characters, etc. There was never meant to be a crossover. And the very nature of the world and story don't really leave themselves open to outside interpretation unless the fundamental elements of the source material are altered in such a way as to allow as smooth of an incorporation of the outside material as possible.

If the fundamental elements of a given source material are altered, is it really still that material? There's arguments to both sides of the equation. But I tend to lean towards "No" on the basis that what's "fundamental" to the source material is generally considered to be integral to the experience which that source material brought.


As an example, let's look at two of my favorite fantasy stories/franchises of all time: Godzilla, and Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Right away we know something's not going to work very well here. Godzilla is from an altered and fictional version of the real world, and ATLA is a complete fantasy with its own world and its own set of rules for said world which don't include radiation (as far as we know). Flexible though Godzilla may be as a character within his own universe, for example being either a force for good, neutral, or the villain, how can he fit the Avatar world if neither radiation are a thing, and his own abilities and the elements of what make him who and what he is in his own universe make him an overpowered God in the world of Avatar?

In short, they don't. At least, not really. There are effectively only two ways Godzilla and Avatar could crossover with one another with no significant changes to one or both sides, and we'll get to them in a bit.

But first, some questions about the logic of a crossover between them...

How does Bending affect Godzilla? Does it affect him at all? Would Blood Bending affect him since his blood has water in it the same as any other living thing? Would his radiation be a magical shield and catch all against any damage like it usually is in his films? Would he be at all vulnerable to anything except the power of the Avatar? Would he even be vulnerable to the Avatar in their Avatar state?

Reason I ask that last one is because if you look at Aang's battle with Ozai Aang literally broke the laws of physics by compressing the water of the ocean into that tiny little water loop he had around him during the fight. That's physically impossible because water is incompressible. So, since the Avatar can defy the laws of physics can Godzilla still take him on?

Lastly, does Godzilla still have: His atomic breath, his nuclear pulse, and his super rejuvenation abilities?

The reason I ask is because these three abilities have all become central to who and what he is over the course of his cinematic career. If he doesn't have them, is he really Godzilla?

Hopefully this kind of helps to bring into focus the core of the issue.

The soul of Godzilla and the elements that make him who and what he is start to become muddied the more we try to nerf and mold him to fit in with the Avatar world in a way that doesn't make him an overpowered God. If we don't muddy or nerf him in some way then he would literally be an un-killable God, and any story forcing the two into conflict would be effectively pointless.

I mentioned earlier that there are basically only two story ideas which actually work when bringing them together. Those two stories are: One, a team up to defeat a bigger threat that neither can face alone. Two, Team Avatar has no chance to defeat whatever foe they face even with the Avatar state, so they lure Godzilla to kill it for them before sending him back to his own world.

That first option is a huge stretch. Godzilla is completely overpowered in the Avatar world, and team Avatar is grossly underpowered compared to him even with the Avatar state. How can a team up actually make a difference if only the Avatar themselves even have a chance at being little more than a pest in the eye of whatever foe Godzilla's taking on?

See the issue there? It's not really fun for anyone on the side of Team Avatar to be reduced to literally nothing and making the big climactic clash of the story all about Godzilla and the Avatar alone. Know what I mean?

But those are the only two story ideas which feasibly work with these two IP's. If we're limited to only those two choices, one of which isn't really worth pursuing, with no realistic or feasible way to put them into conflict with one another, which is objectively far more interesting, what's the point?


Hopefully that all made sense.

Like I said, crossovers are notoriously difficult due to these kinds of logistical nightmares when trying to blend differing source material together.

Obviously, the more similar the respective source material are to one another the easier a crossover will be to accomplish. Marvel and DC are good examples because their timelines really don't matter. Since they're both Super Hero universes it's all about creating some kind of bridge for their worlds to come together so they occupy the same space.

But in many cases the source material are little to nothing alike which makes crossovers a logistical and management nightmare for the GM which is why so many people avoid them.

Hopefully that was somewhat helpful!

Cheers!

~ GojiBean

 

[Goonfire]

There was a time when we had a lot of fandom crossovers, but their numbers have since dwindled. I suspect it's due, in part, to the fact that anything goes in a lot of these. You have to include a degree of quality control to avoid the common fallacies that give these RPs that stigma.

When planning to play canon characters, I think we need to ask questions similar to those regarding original characters:

• Why are you including them?
• Is their power level appropriate within the scope of the RP?
• Does their personality allow them to work with a group of other characters?
• Why would they care about the plot?
• How would an experience like this help them grow?

There are other questions you could ask, but I think I've made my point. While the player can faithfully portray that character or take a few liberties, you must ensure they don't remain one-note for the entirety of the crossover. They should have opinions on the situation and their company, and those opinions should be subject to change as they learn more about it.

 

[Cogwork]

Hello everyone! I've seen a lot of people, including myself, looking for fandom roleplays that are niche. The question that I've been wondering for a while is this: why isn't there more of an acceptance of crossing over different fandoms in order to be able to play with both interests the players want?

I don't think crossover roleplays really scratch the same itch as a, for lack of a better word, "pure" roleplay does for a lot of people.

If I'm looking to rp a particular fandom, I want to really engage in the setting and the characters and crossover roleplays, by their nature, doesn't let me do that to the same extent (even if the fandoms involved are compatible).
 

 

[Caroline1539]

I don't think crossover roleplays really scratch the same itch as a, for lack of a better word, "pure" roleplay does for a lot of people.

If I'm looking to rp a particular fandom, I want to really engage in the setting and the characters and crossover roleplays, by their nature, doesn't let me do that to the same extent (even if the fandoms involved are compatible).
 

Okay, I'm a little perplexed by this line of thinking. Wouldn't you be able to explore the characters and settings more by having those that are unfamiliar to it interact with it? Like, depth of complexity having different personalities and experiences become exposed to one another via the crossover.

And if you're so stringent about things Not Touching In Fandoms Ever, you could take that logic further, of course. Why allow anyone to play OCs in your fandom roleplays at all, then? They're not from the fandom setting, are they? Why not restrict people to only playing canons?

I am playing a bit, don't get me wrong, but honestly I don't think it's a problem to mix media, if the tones and the settings could mesh well together. If that's not your cup of tea that's cool- I just don't see why it's a big deal to smush things together.

 

[Cogwork]

Wouldn't you be able to explore the characters and settings more by having those that are unfamiliar to it interact with it?

Maybe, but that isn't my point. My point is that if you're doing a, say, Gravity Falls/Scooby-Doo crossover you're going to have to focus on both sides of the crossovers.

Therefore, people who are only interested in one of them won't be able to explore that side as much as they'd like.

To sort of drive my point home, do you understand why a horror rp and a romance rp with horror elements are different and might attract different crowds?

And if you're so stringent about things Not Touching In Fandoms Ever [...]

I'm not. I'm simply answering the questions of why people in niche fandoms don't just do crossover roleplays.

My comment was not meant to deride crossover roleplays in general.

Why allow anyone to play OCs in your fandom roleplays at all, then? They're not from the fandom setting, are they?

OC's are typically written around their setting, so they work better.