Viewpoint Why do straight female roleplayers tend to like abusive roleplays?

[celestialprince]

This may be more of an unpopular opinion, but I have to ask because I'm confused.

I see a lot of request threads for people that only play female in male/female roleplays and the vast vast majority of them say they like roleplays such as:
slave/master
teacher/student (the girl is always the student for some reason)
older/younger (the man is always the older for some reason)
good girl/bad boy
vampire dom/human sub (obviously the girl is the sub)
warewolf dom/human sub (ditto)
kidnapper/kidnapee (why is the man always the kidnapper?)


A lot of circumstances where much older man goes for a young women (in real life) there's a messed up power dynamic which leads to abuse and all sorts of problems. Plus the idea even in fiction of Stockholm syndrome just gives me the creeps.

Is it a common fantasy for straight women to fantasise about being a sub, or being in a borderline abusive relationship?


I just want to get the opinion of some of you girls out there why do you go for these pairings?

And maybe it's true that nice guys finish last, even in the RP world.​

 

[Crow]

Somewhat on-topic, remember those old Harley Quinn/Joker pairing RPs? That shit was all over my Facebook after Suicide Squad aired. Couldn't go a day without seeing it. Good times, good times. Very nostalgic feeling to see them pop up time and again.

 

[celestialprince]

Exactly. Even the popularity of something so obviously abusive makes me wonder about why people are into it.

I guess people like taboo. But I'm more into healthy relationships and consent and all those fun things.​

 

[Jet]

This should be interesting

 

[sugarleaf]

I think it may have something to do with the fact they could've experienced some form of abuse themselves! And if not, as the previous person has stated, abusive relationships are heavily popularized in the media--specifically ones where the men abuse women. Unfortunately young females are being shown that abusive, mentally unstable men are attractive. It's unfortunate.

I don't know though, this is just my personal take! It's a topic that definitely needs to be discussed!

 

[Nue]

So, while I don't go for these pairings myself (and I'm also not straight), I think I maybe understand why people like these pairings, and why it's mainly women. But it might take some time for me to explain and it's probably not gonna be super articulate so.... bear with me haha

As you correctly identified, the common thing between all of these popular scenarios is that there's often a huge power imbalance at play. Regardless of whether it's kidnapper x kidnapee or human x werewolf, they all share the trope of someone who is powerful, aggressively pursuing a more submissive, 'weaker' person. In real life, this dynamic could get super unhealthy, and I would guess that the majority of the people who do these roleplays definitely don't actually want to get kidnapped or anything like that. But in a roleplay space, things are different: it's fictional, no one is really getting hurt, and you can leave out any bits that you aren't comfortable with if you so choose. Basically, it's a way to explore that dynamic without getting hurt.

Okay, so why would you want to explore that dynamic, anyway? Well.. it's kind of hard to explain and I'm not an authority on this obviously, but I guess if you're into romance, the idea of someone being so attracted to you that they pursue you aggressively is exciting for people? These scenarios are usually very dramatic and intense. Basically, when you leave out all the unfortunate implications or you're not the one being personally affected, it can be enjoyable for some players, even if in real life it would be really unhealthy, or even abusive.

The reason it's mostly women, I think, is..... a lot to explain that I'm too tired to do rn but might add later lmfao..... but tl;dr it's not something that's inherent to women, i think it's more about how we're socialised and how that effects the demographic that would want to do roleplays, explore these relationships in a written format, ect.

Oh, another thing to note is that there's also the aspect that some of these women are seeking out these stories precisely because they want to roleplay a weird unhealthy relationship. Some people do like doing grim-dark roleplays I guess, haha. I think there's the misconception that a lot of these people don't realise how messed up those dynamics are, and think they're roleplaying totally cute and normal relationships, but in reality I think a lot of them are fully aware and that's legit part of it - they just wanna explore that kind of story

tl;dr - ppl use roleplays to explore dynamics that might be harmful IRL, but likely wouldn't want to actually experience them, i have no idea if this made sense its nearly 4 am

 

[Melpomene]

Well, there are two things it could be.

One of the groups are people who generally like to explore darker subject matters such as slavery, abusive situations and relationships, and other such things. There is a certain amount of interest to be had in the macabre. The dark and twisted is an area which can be uncomfortable but at the same time be an interesting study in the human condition. What type of person would do the proper mental gymnastics to enslave another? Of course, not everyone follows this line of thinking, but I do not want to dismiss these people because while I agree with the sentiment that a lot of these dynamics are just plain creepy and I do not see what many people see in them as a romance, I do like the idea of them as a study in the minds of two characters.

But, I will admit, a good chunk of people who enjoy these likely are in it for the fantasy. I am with you, I personally, am not a fan. I never wanted a vampire dom because, fuck you, I want to be the badass vampire. However, I do not dismiss the people who hold this fantasy. While in my younger more arrogant years of roleplay (I say like I am 40 and not 19), I would likely have judged these people. I do not. Everyone has the right to roleplay what they wish (provided whoever their partners are agree with it.

I cannot say how common the fantasy is, as I cannot speak for all women nor have I spoken to all women, but I can say it definitely has a distinct presence in many mediums. It is why many people like their female characters kidnapped, forced, or put in the "sub" position, but still be pampered at the same time. It is actually why I struggled writing a romance with one of my past partners before (as well as other reasons pertaining to her treatment of me), but it took me quite a while to realize she actually wanted my character to act super jealous and possessive when I thought those traits were very creepy so I tended to keep them out of any man that I wanted to be at least a somewhat decent person. And in return, when her male oc acted controlling towards my female oc, and then that female oc kept pushing him a way, for quite obvious reasons, she grew increasingly frustrated, not understanding why my character did not want to spend time with hers.

That was when I truly realized it was a fantasy for some women, but now to why. And upon further inspection, a good chunk in the RP community especially.

The answer: It varies.

RP is where we can let our deepest fantasies out (that aren't sexual anyways). And Harlequin novels have been popular for a while for the very reason that this type of power imbalance is thrilling to some people. While (hopefully) most of them understand that it is very unhealthy in real life, they like the idea of being in that situation. They find it sexy and darkly romantic. It is why Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey got popular, people liked the idea of having rich, powerful, possessive boyfriends. I cannot speak for everyone, so I don't know why everyone likes it. For some people, I have been told they like the idea of being such a beautiful woman that men just couldn't resist her and had to have her all to himself. Once again, I can't speak for everyone so I am not sure of everyone's reasoning but that is one that I know of.

And I want to reiterate, there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

Buuuuuuut....

As has been mentioned I do think it is dangerous to popularize abusive relationships. See, I am fine with this being a romantic fantasy as long as everyone is aware it can only remain a fantasy because it is a horribly abusive situation, then fine, whatevs, right?

But if I see one more person romanticize Joker x Harly Quin I will eat my hat.

 

[celestialprince]

It is actually why I struggled writing a romance with one of my past partners before (as well as other reasons pertaining to her treatment of me), but it took me quite a while to realize she actually wanted my character to act super jealous and possessive when I thought those traits were very creepy so I tended to keep them out of any man that I wanted to be at least a somewhat decent person. And in return, when her male oc acted controlling towards my female oc, and then that female oc kept pushing him a way, for quite obvious reasons, she grew increasingly frustrated, not understanding why my character did not want to spend time with hers.

So this. She probably didn't even realise why she was doing this and roleplaying this way.

It just seems even almost inherently sexist to me, that the man has to be a controlling douchebag in order to get the girl to fall for him.
Like, forcing toxic gender roles to the extreme. ​

 

[Melpomene]

So this. She probably didn't even realise why she was doing this and roleplaying this way.

It just seems even almost inherently sexist to me, that the man has to be a controlling douchebag in order to get the girl to fall for him.
Like, forcing toxic gender roles to the extreme. ​

Hmm...

That's a can of worms, I would say. I do find it odd when people associate possessiveness with romance inherently (as though a romance cannot exist without some level of possessive behavior). Because this is not only wrong but a dangerous mindset to have and I worry for ANYONE that thinks this. It saddens me, because I have met several people who think you need to be possessive of your significant other in order to prove your love to them. And... I really don't like it.

And it is one of the reason why I dislike the idea of toxic relationships being popularized. And those cringy: 'He's the Joker to my Harley' posts. Because that's literally the worst fictional relationship to compare your IRL one to.

But as far as it being inherently sexist... I think that is a case by case basis. Like, while this trope definitely leans into gender/sex stereotypes, and certainly there is argument to call it sexist, but once again I think it comes down to the mindset of who is writing. Like you mentioned, someone seeming to ... not understand how a female character could not fall for a male one when he is basically openly displaying red flags is definitely... worrisome, I will say.

 

[Crayons]

It's exceedingly common for women (straight women mostly I guess) to have fantasies about being kidnapped/tied up/possessed by a man, etc. I remember reading about this in a book years ago, and it still comes up top in lists of women's fantasies if you want to do some online research (I'm trying hard to make this post SFW and following site rules, although if you google, the results you get may well be NSFW and not minor-age friendly so just a warning there).

So yes, it is common and kind of a well known thing in the psychology field.

 

[Crow]

I'd talk about how a certain tag on a certain site is particularly popular with the demographic you speak of with legitimate personal eyewitnessing but that's NSFW territory.

Heck, I think a lot of stuff this topic can delve into reaches into NSFW territory.

 

[Emotional Enigma]

I think its more of a dom/sub thing. I don't particularly like a huge gap in power dynamics, I like them on equal footing usually and there's a power struggle between them. But as someone who really likes an assertive opposite character to my hot-headed characters, I think its a dom/sub thing. There's nothing inherently sexual about it in RP terms, I think people just like the behavior of someone assertive and demanding and those types of RP pairings easily put their partners in those positions to have to be assertive. They'd probably dip out if the kidnapper was sensitive or not a hard @ss

Just my take and I, by all means, do not speak for the majority. I just speak from my own perspective.

 

[celestialprince]

I'd talk about how a certain tag on a certain site is particularly popular with the demographic you speak of with legitimate personal eyewitnessing but that's NSFW territory.

Spoiler: ?

Spoiler tag it? I want to know!

It is simply a reminiscence of a strong behaviour that was present in our ancestors.

I find the teacher/student one the most creepy.
And I don't know how kidnapping or sleeping with your teacher ties in to biological urges, but that's just me (obviously).

But as someone who really likes an assertive opposite character to my hot-headed characters, I think its a dom/sub thing.

Assertive isn't exactly the same as dom/sub. I mean you can have an assertive character who goes after what they want, and not be a kidnapper, or an older pervert abusing his power. I love assertive characters, but not ones that have a HUGE power imbalance over another.​

 

[Grey]

Think of it as a halfway point between exposure therapy and self-directed conditioning. These scenarios provide a safe environment where both participants have full agency in which to play out abusive dynamics, which is a common and - if engaged in consciously - healthy trauma response.

 

[Emotional Enigma]

Spoiler: ?

Spoiler tag it? I want to know!

I find the teacher/student one the most creepy.
And I don't know how kidnapping or sleeping with your teacher ties in to biological urges, but that's just me (obviously).



Assertive isn't exactly the same as dom/sub. I mean you can have an assertive character who goes after what they want, and not be a kidnapper, or an older pervert abusing his power. I love assertive characters, but not ones that have a HUGE power imbalance over another.​

Well thats why I said equal footing. I was referencing those ideas about equal footing not the ones you've mentioned so I don't have any arguments about this power imbalance issue.. And being a dom kind of requires one to be assertive, I've never met a dom who isn't assertive. It's hard to be a dom without being assertive since the behavior calls for demands.

Edit: Hmm, I don't think I can explain it very well but people are attracted to confidence, which if you look in the dictionary is what assertive is. People also really like Dom/Sub behavior which kind of goes hand in hand with assertiveness and when I say this, I am referencing the behavior NOT the sexual inclinations as I know talk of that is against RpN rules, I just want to make that clear that that is not what I am talking about. I personally don't understand those plots that you've mentioned as I don't see any actual plot past sexual angst in them which is again, against the rules. So I can't tell you why people would RP those pairings specifically, I can only maybe explain why some people might lean towards similar plots.

In most RPs there's a power struggle, when someone has a plot about a werewolf guy and a human girl, that's a power struggle because obviously the werewolf is going to be stronger than the human. Arranged marriage plots are always a power struggle because usually the girl is traveling to be forced into marriage to a man at his kingdom. Probably a slew of others as well where there's an underlying power struggle / power dynamic.

I keep editing because I keep thinking of things to add, I'm sorry lol but also, "nice" can be on any of those character pairings you've mentioned. You can have a nice character and also have them be a dominant personality and fill the role of werewolf. There isn't a nice guys vs mean guys thing. The only pairing I don't really know how to address is that teacher x student but everything else can have "nice" guys. Just because your character is a werewolf, older, or a vampire doesn't mean they can't be nice. Sounds a bit like the r/niceguys reddit page.

 

[Syntra]

Hmmm, I dunno, why do people like to kill in roleplays when killing is bad??

I am not straight, but personally, I find fucked up relationships to be fun. They lend themselves to DRAMA, and DRAMA is fun to explore. Fiction =/= reality. Irl, I have the most loving, 'boring' relationship imaginable, but I wouldn't want to rp that.

Also, something, something, damsels in distress in media, something, something, fairytale archetypes.

Edit: grammar

 

[Crow]

Spoiler: ?

Spoiler tag it? I want to know!

​

Site rules be site rules. My lips are sealed shut.

Now, just know That it's three letters and is short for something. not to be Rude.

 

[Chordling]

I want to discourage all of you from mentioning users to look up potentially NSFW content for the rest of this thread.

 

[Idea]

I am going to say something I've noticed, less as a replacement and more as an add-on to what's been said, this is, I believe what I'm about to add works on top of what others have said rather than being a solo motivator.

The reasons I'm going to bring up are laziness and having the high ground.

To put it simple, when someone tries to play the "submissive" character, I find that there is almost a universal tendency (or there was when I still roleplayed such) to play a character that is extremely passive. A character that doesn't push for the plot, to whom things happen because someone else makes them happen and they are just caught up in all of it. If you're not the one making anything happen you are pretty much being GMed to, and anyone who's played with a partner like this (one that is pretty much entirely passive) knows that one of people in that partnership is doing all the work. Even in cases when it's not the case that there is not complete passivity, the "submissive" role will still naturally be less active when it comes to the plot and be response-oriented than proactive.

Now I'm not saying that people are necessarily thinking "I'm gonna dump all the work on my partner", but I do think there is a certain inherent ,and for lack of a better word, subconscious, advantage in a role with less thinking involved. Which is to say nothing of the likely worry a lot of people have about screwing up a more active role. At least if you're passive there's less of a chance of you being too pushy or doing something the partner is uncomfortable with. You can just be the recipient, the "victim". Which leads me to my next point...

If you're playing the victim role, that means you get to claim the other character is doing something wrong. And much less a chess match is often won by the white pieces because they move first, so would you win retconning wars because you have the first move. It's not malicious per say, but it is ironically liberating, one character getting to one-sidedly feel justified in being resistant, rude and abrasive with no accountability because the other's role forces them to engage with the first anyway. I can't tell you how often the RPs of my early days on RPN got derailed by partners whose characters just would never cease to protest and actively attempt to sabotage the plot while I was forced to try to come up with ways to salvage even just the basic premise of what we agreed to do. And you inevitably get the "but it's what my character would do" excuse.

I'm going to be honest, I have a bit of a grievance with what I described in that last paragraph.

Nonetheless, I think both play a role in making the described pairings prevalent, not to all but certainly to many. As for the demographic I think mostly has to do with biological pre-dispositions combined with the kind of media consumed, plus the fact that women do tend to have a bigger interest in romance than men statistically speaking, so it's natural that you'd see more women with such pairings when they have just more interests looking for pairings period. Now, personally I am not bothered by people wanting to roleplay these things, I think so long as people understand fiction is fiction then we're good and people should be allowed to enjoy what they like within those boundaries, but I can understand it might be seem strange on the surface.

 

[celestialprince]

Think of it as a halfway point between exposure therapy and self-directed conditioning. These scenarios provide a safe environment where both participants have full agency in which to play out abusive dynamics, which is a common and - if engaged in consciously - healthy trauma response.

This is getting closer to it. I'm just trying to analyse the appeal and why it seems universally a straight woman thing, more than anything else.​

 

[Crayons]

This is getting closer to it. I'm just trying to analyse the appeal and why it seems universally a straight woman thing, more than anything else.​

On the other hand, how do you know the player is a straight woman, just because the character they want to play is a straight woman?

 

[Grey]

it seems universally a straight woman thing, more than anything else.

Statistical inevitability.

 

[celestialprince]

I guess because most of these role-play requests say 'I only play female because I am a female.' I've seen this on almost all ones that strictly do MxF. Most are writing what they know right?​

 

[Emotional Enigma]

I guess because most of these role-play requests say 'I only play female because I am a female.' I've seen this on almost all ones that strictly do MxF. Most are writing what they know right?​

I wouldn't assume someone's sexuality based on that. I'm bisexual but like doing straight female x male RPs, that doesn't make me any less bisexual though.

 

[celestialprince]

I wouldn't assume someone's sexuality based on that. I'm bisexual but like doing straight female x male RPs, that doesn't make me any less bisexual though.

I don't mean to assume sexuality. But the fact it's still mostly a female fantasy still stands.​