Experiences What's one RP trope/topic that makes you leave without discussion?

[Murdergurl]

Speaking of I does anyone else remember the days of pixelated anime images? Cuz those were rough.

Yup. and in some instances, stretched to fit the frame so the avi was all distorted. lmao

I remember when I actually preferred people just NOT share a character pic because more often than not, the pic was of such utter shit quality that it was better left to your imagination. But I mean, I remember when RP didnt even encompass having character sheets at all. Like, you just dropped into the chat and did your best to describe your PC with a short intro post. There was no vetting, no selection or "partners". Just a whole lotta drop-in and drop-out of random peeps that could access the board. RP has come a long way over the years

 

[Murdergurl]

Oh absolutely, I both RP and have several solo projects going on, and many people REEAALLY underestimate just how different solo writing and RP writing is.

I was more referencing the fact that the people I have met that try to force a certain character on others tend to be so controlling about the entire roleplay and micromanaging every aspect that it is as if they want to write everything themselves. Like... I've dealt with people getting pissy at me for my character not reacting exactly how they wanted them to, as though I could read their damn minds and know exactly what they wanted.

was this group? or 1x1? cause I have the notion that this is probably more common in a 1x1 setting. Though over-controlling GMs exist as well

 

[Jannah]

Oh absolutely, I both RP and have several solo projects going on, and many people REEAALLY underestimate just how different solo writing and RP writing is.

I was more referencing the fact that the people I have met that try to force a certain character on others tend to be so controlling about the entire roleplay and micromanaging every aspect that it is as if they want to write everything themselves. Like... I've dealt with people getting pissy at me for my character not reacting exactly how they wanted them to, as though I could read their damn minds and know exactly what they wanted.

I have so much solo stuff I want to write, mostly because I have ideas that are either too obscure or niche to find RP partners for, or because they would just work better as a solo story. However, it's been tough. I get started and then never seem to get very far. I think it's because I have a vision for how I want a story to end and then some scenes in between, but then I don't have a clear cut path on how to put it all together.

 

[Murdergurl]

I have so much solo stuff I want to write, mostly because I have ideas that are either too obscure or niche to find RP partners for, or because they would just work better as a solo story. However, it's been tough. I get started and then never seem to get very far. I think it's because I have a vision for how I want a story to end and then some scenes in between, but then I don't have a clear cut path on how to put it all together.

I can relate to this SO much

 

[Melpomene]

was this group? or 1x1? cause I have the notion that this is probably more common in a 1x1 setting. Though over-controlling GMs exist as well

I've had it happen in both, but 1x1 are definitely where you find it the most. I think it is harder for an over controlling GM to keep their shit going with a group of people rather than one person with one other.

I have so much solo stuff I want to write, mostly because I have ideas that are either too obscure or niche to find RP partners for, or because they would just work better as a solo story. However, it's been tough. I get started and then never seem to get very far. I think it's because I have a vision for how I want a story to end and then some scenes in between, but then I don't have a clear cut path on how to put it all together.

Same. I have tons of interest that I realize don't work as well as RPs either because they are super niche (I find that I am a bit more concentrated on character emotional and mental health and realistically playing it out than most) or they just work better if only one person is writing. I have one very big project I am working on and then a bunch of smaller ones. But my big one requires massive amounts of world building as I wanted to incorporate both mythology and a story of a crumbling empire with an emperor slowly losing his mind at the center of it lol. I find if you look at personal projects as smaller chunks and steps it helps. Also helps if you have a writing buddy to help you along and listen to you jabber on about plot points and characters!

 

[Jannah]

Same. I have tons of interest that I realize don't work as well as RPs either because they are super niche (I find that I am a bit more concentrated on character emotional and mental health and realistically playing it out than most) or they just work better if only one person is writing. I have one very big project I am working on and then a bunch of smaller ones. But my big one requires massive amounts of world building as I wanted to incorporate both mythology and a story of a crumbling empire with an emperor slowly losing his mind at the center of it lol. I find if you look at personal projects as smaller chunks and steps it helps. Also helps if you have a writing buddy to help you along and listen to you jabber on about plot points and characters!

Another problem is that a lot of my stuff is historical fiction so requires quite a bit of research. That alone can take time and energy that could otherwise be used for writing. Like, I've been researching Ottoman Empire stuff for a bit now since I want to try to incorporate it into either a solo story or a RP.

 

[Scholar Ya]

Soulmates or destined lovers.. it's just so blegh. Tragically boring and overdone.

 

[Merciless Medic]

agree. it really isnt that hard to find a believable face for your character's chosen ethnic group. But I think a lot of people are hung up on playing their celebrity crush in a role instead of a more appropriated aesthetic.

In some cases it's acceptable I guess. Like, if the character was adopted by parents of a different ethnicity. Naturally, they would likely have a name to reflect that. Plenty of kids adopted into American families have pretty standard American names. Other than that, though, yes please put in effort of making the name match the face.

Lol, when you want to find a faceclaim to match a character's ethnicity but because the appearance you have planned for a character is too "unique" for that ethnicity....

How many people who are of Japanese descent have a viking death hawk? Which is like a mohawk, but it's usually braided or left alone. :'D

 

[Jannah]

Lol, when you want to find a faceclaim to match a character's ethnicity but because the appearance you have planned for a character is too "unique" for that ethnicity....

How many people who are of Japanese descent have a viking death hawk? Which is like a mohawk, but it's usually braided or left alone. :'D

Oh, as soon as people start bringing in the unnatural hair and eye colours that aren't the result of contacts or hair dye then I'm out. It screams mary sue to me.

 

[Merciless Medic]

Oh, as soon as people start bringing in the unnatural hair and eye colours that aren't the result of contacts or hair dye then I'm out. It screams mary sue to me.

Lol, yeah, unless it's in a fandom or a universe set in some kind of anime world, I don't particularly like unnatural hair or eye colors unless there's a magical/fantasy reason for them having it. Otherwise, that's just one point towards the Mary Sue marker for me and I'm just sitting there like "okay".

Though, I can say, I have yet to find a Japanese/American mix human with a specific hair style I want and it's just UGHHHHH... XD I just want a specific hair style and not make her look like an elf or a viking asdiofheoaheafa It sucks. xD

 

[Jannah]

Lol, yeah, unless it's in a fandom or a universe set in some kind of anime world, I don't particularly like unnatural hair or eye colors unless there's a magical/fantasy reason for them having it. Otherwise, that's just one point towards the Mary Sue marker for me and I'm just sitting there like "okay".

Though, I can say, I have yet to find a Japanese/American mix human with a specific hair style I want and it's just UGHHHHH... XD I just want a specific hair style and not make her look like an elf or a viking asdiofheoaheafa It sucks. xD

Yea, I didn't really mention fantasy settings where that sort of thing may be natural since I don't really play in those types of settings lol. I mostly do realistic settings so there would be no weird hair colours unless the person was dying it.

 

[Merciless Medic]

Or have a bunch of preset and very specific roles to be filled by the other PCs. Like, I understand having a roster of occupations to choose from. Like for example, the crew of a starship. But I've seen RPs where the creator has made a list of ready-made characters for the other players to have to choose from. That's a hard pass from me.

That sounds like they just want other people to help them write their fanfiction and are gonna be overly controlling about how you choose to play your own character.

Why those people don't just write their own fiction by themselves, I don't know.

I was doing this RP on Quotev and there was this RPer who wanted me to read her Pokemon fanfiction of how her character as a baby was given to Giovanni.

Big red flag.

She then said she wanted me to play as Giovanni and wanted to go through what exactly what she had going on in her fanfiction.

I had a character they were supposed to be a love interest with. I was like "hey, can we have our characters aged up a bit so my character isn't 3-years-old on a Pokemon journey running away from some people with nasty Pokemon?" She said "of course."

I believed her.

Then when I RPed with her, I realized that her character was still a baby. Not aged up like I had thought, and she wanted me to play out the fanfic. I ended up making it slightly more detailed than the fanfic she posted and yet I uh.... I just stopped. I was like "okay, well it's clear to me you didn't listen the first time, I'm just rewriting what you wrote but more detailed, and it feels like I'm just making this fanfiction story better for you. You are literally copy+pasting from your fanfiction and I can't keep RPing like this because this isn't an RP." RPer tried to beg for me to come back and she'll change it. I gave her one more chance and instead of skipping forward after the fanfiction like we had planned, she still wanted to make posts for the fanfiction portion of the RP, so I was like "I'm done, you did not listen, do not ask me to RP with you again."

Then a week later she asks me to read her Transformers fanfiction so I can RP it and I was like "eh, no thanks."

It was sad :'D

 

[Murdergurl]

I was doing this RP on Quotev and there was this RPer who wanted me to read her Pokemon fanfiction of how her character as a baby was given to Giovanni.

Big red flag.

She then said she wanted me to play as Giovanni and wanted to go through what exactly what she had going on in her fanfiction.

I had a character they were supposed to be a love interest with. I was like "hey, can we have our characters aged up a bit so my character isn't 3-years-old on a Pokemon journey running away from some people with nasty Pokemon?" She said "of course."

I believed her.

Then when I RPed with her, I realized that her character was still a baby. Not aged up like I had thought, and she wanted me to play out the fanfic. I ended up making it slightly more detailed than the fanfic she posted and yet I uh.... I just stopped. I was like "okay, well it's clear to me you didn't listen the first time, I'm just rewriting what you wrote but more detailed, and it feels like I'm just making this fanfiction story better for you. You are literally copy+pasting from your fanfiction and I can't keep RPing like this because this isn't an RP." RPer tried to beg for me to come back and she'll change it. I gave her one more chance and instead of skipping forward after the fanfiction like we had planned, she still wanted to make posts for the fanfiction portion of the RP, so I was like "I'm done, you did not listen, do not ask me to RP with you again."

Then a week later she asks me to read her Transformers fanfiction so I can RP it and I was like "eh, no thanks."

It was sad :'D

I feel like, yeah... she just wanted you to re-write her fanfic but better. Sometimes I wonder if people do that with their overly-specific RPs. Like, that they are just using them as a pool to steal material from by hijacking the writing of the other participants.

 

[Murdergurl]

Lol, yeah, unless it's in a fandom or a universe set in some kind of anime world, I don't particularly like unnatural hair or eye colors unless there's a magical/fantasy reason for them having it. Otherwise, that's just one point towards the Mary Sue marker for me and I'm just sitting there like "okay".

Though, I can say, I have yet to find a Japanese/American mix human with a specific hair style I want and it's just UGHHHHH... XD I just want a specific hair style and not make her look like an elf or a viking asdiofheoaheafa It sucks. xD

hey, I've always wondered why is it that anime characters have Japanese names, are Japanese characters, but are often depicted with blue or green eyes and red and blonde hair? Like, clearly this isnt what Japanese people look like... yet this character is supposed to be Japanese???

 

[Onmyoji]

hey, I've always wondered why is it that anime characters have Japanese names, are Japanese characters, but are often depicted with blue or green eyes and red and blonde hair? Like, clearly this isnt what Japanese people look like... yet this character is supposed to be Japanese???

Hair dye and contact lenses! Or in case of fantasy, magic.

seriously though, it's to better distinguish drawn characters

 

[Murdergurl]

Hair dye and contact lenses! Or in case of fantasy, magic.

seriously though, it's to better distinguish drawn characters

well, i guess yeah that makes sense. Considering the simplicity of the art style, if they all used the same overall color palette, there actually isnt a lot else to distinguish them by.

 

[Merciless Medic]

I feel like, yeah... she just wanted you to re-write her fanfic but better. Sometimes I wonder if people do that with their overly-specific RPs. Like, that they are just using them as a pool to steal material from by hijacking the writing of the other participants.

I feel that, too. There is one thing I'm okay when it comes to that though. However, how you write and the characters they make (especially ones that are really special to them like self-insert OCs or OCs that are close to home/comfort/what-have-you) are not okay to just copy and make your own. Maybe name ideas/inspiration for such and that's fine.

However, that one thing I'm okay with is plot material. I can't think of every plot or dramatic thing to get my characters into and while I love making random shit happen, I only have the muse for that every once in a while. I don't just make "uwu random" shit happen because, while I love it and keeps things fresh and interesting, isn't something I can just "do". I would love to just not have to worry about that and make interesting plot/directives on my own but sometimes, having someone to just RP with/bounce ideas with is a godsend, lol.

Though (and this isn't just for you because I'm sure you know this already), I would definitely suggest asking if you can use an idea/character/plot-something-or-other because uh...... It's not the best to copy that and having people get mad :'D

hey, I've always wondered why is it that anime characters have Japanese names, are Japanese characters, but are often depicted with blue or green eyes and red and blonde hair? Like, clearly this isnt what Japanese people look like... yet this character is supposed to be Japanese???

Ahh, that. XD That question. I don't question it. Suspension of disbelief. If it's fantasy, got magic, superpowers, or what-have-you, I don't mind. If it's supposed to be in a more realistic setting with nothing of the above, I would just chalk it up to "merchandisable" or "making the character stand out". Otherwise, they add it in because it's cool. They have that stuff because they want their characters to have it. It's a similar reason as to why most anime artwork have characters who have huge eyes, and that's a beauty standard over there. It could possibly fall under beauty conventions of individuality or it's a "I wish I had this" kind of thing. I honestly don't mind it too much. It's their medium, their story, and differently colored hair doesn't really impact the story at all. XD

Anyway, another thing that makes me nope out :'D

Hmmm......... An RP trope? I got stuff players/gms would do that make me nope out (or I stay to be stubborn and because I love watching stuff burn around me), but there isn't a whole lot of RP tropes I wouldn't touch. Like, yeah, triggering stuff for other people (nothing gets me triggered anymore and if something nearly unbelievable it can be explained, I don't mind). I usually go hardcore in an RP setting and I have to keep holding myself back to make sure other people don't leave because it's too much :'D But, I guess one thing that I just kinda..... get that itch to leave is when I notice the character in question do not have the skills or power to beat the thing they said they beat in an RP. That's where I draw the line. XD

 

[Malphaestus]

hey, I've always wondered why is it that anime characters have Japanese names, are Japanese characters, but are often depicted with blue or green eyes and red and blonde hair? Like, clearly this isnt what Japanese people look like... yet this character is supposed to be Japanese???

Contact lenses, and hair dyes, to 'westernize' their look, is a common practice amongst Japanese females. Not all of them do it, naturally. Most, perhaps even, do not go through the effort. But, it is a noticable amount of females who do it should you walk around the major cities for any extended period of time. Males likely do it, for similar reasons. Though I have not witnessed it with my own eyes. Doubtlessly, it began as some manner of seeking distinguishment, uniqueness. But over time it mellowed and became uniform. Though, some people could simply have interesting genetics.

Though I do not know about Japan, Korea is similar in seeking 'westernized' looks. An incredibly large assortment of women go through aesthetic-corrective eye surgey, so that their eyelids look more 'european.'

Fandoms are not my type of thing. I find it lazy to merely take someone else's work and fill into it. Especially if it includes canon characters with whom people participate with in aforementioned fandom. I can forgive an authentically original tale, contained within the boundaries of an already established setting. However, I still do not view it particularly highly. It is a confining practice, limiting people from the imaginations they could be utilizing to produce great and wholly new worlds for all to inhabit.

 

[sevyn]

Contact lenses, and hair dyes, to 'westernize' their look, is a common practice amongst Japanese females. Not all of them do it, naturally. Most, perhaps even, do not go through the effort. But, it is a noticable amount of females who do it should you walk around the major cities for any extended period of time. Males likely do it, for similar reasons. Though I have not witnessed it with my own eyes. Doubtlessly, it began as some manner of seeking distinguishment, uniqueness. But over time it mellowed and became uniform. Though, some people could simply have interesting genetics.

Though I do not know about Japan, Korea is similar in seeking 'westernized' looks. An incredibly large assortment of women go through aesthetic-corrective eye surgey, so that their eyelids look more 'european.'

i'm sorry, it baffles me that people think asians do these things to look western double eyelid surgery is not to achieve a western or european look, it's literally to make the eyes look wider which gives a bright and more youthful impression. has nothing to do with looking european... unless you believe wide eyes are exclusive to white people? i'm not insulting you, but this is a clear case of eurocentrism and a sense of arrogance that a surprising amount of westerners display. and as for japanese people who use contacts or dye their hair... like you said, it's far more for the purpose of self expression and to have a more eye-catching look, nothing to do with wanting to look like a white person. pls don't confuse anime character designs with actual japanese people


anyway, my addition to this thread: i'm very quick to leave if someone shows no willingness to compromise. i understand enjoying your concepts of course, i'm more so referring to people who have concepts that don't really fit and would not make sense, but do mental gymnastics to try and justify it. it's especially annoying when it can easily be mended but they're way too fixated on that particular idea.

 

[Malphaestus]

i'm sorry, it baffles me that people think asians do these things to look western double eyelid surgery is not to achieve a western or european look, it's literally to make the eyes look wider which gives a bright and more youthful impression. has nothing to do with looking european... unless you believe wide eyes are exclusive to white people? i'm not insulting you, but this is a clear case of eurocentrism and a sense of arrogance that a surprising amount of westerners display. and as for japanese people who use contacts or dye their hair... like you said, it's far more for the purpose of self expression and to have a more eye-catching look, nothing to do with wanting to look like a white person. pls don't confuse anime character designs with actual japanese people


anyway, my addition to this thread: i'm very quick to leave if someone shows no willingness to compromise. i understand enjoying your concepts of course, i'm more so referring to people who have concepts that don't really fit and would not make sense, but do mental gymnastics to try and justify it. it's especially annoying when it can easily be mended but they're way too fixated on that particular idea.

To initiate, there are many ethnicities within Europe beyond "white people," whatever "white people" actually are. The same can be said of any ethnic debate, in any place. But for Europe in particular, it is an impossibly rich ethnic ancestral hodge of diversity contained within a very small landmass as a result of millennia of migratory peoples and histories of settlements and diasporas as caused by kingdoms, empires, or natural disasters, not to mention wars or national strife.

And whilst I never stated that wide eyes were an exclusivity to anyone, it is fact that they come more naturally to western ethnic groups. And, it is also factual that "europeans" are viewed, aesthetically, very highly for their beauty by Koreans and Japanese. I have my own personal ideas for why this is, mostly rooted in the post-war reconstruction process sans the second world war, where western powers rebuilt and occupied Japan and Korea, whilst making them 'westernized' in how they operated. Lest we forget that Japan had, until the Post War-era, been a military dictatorship under the rule of an emperor as advised by stratocratic administrators. Now, this is not relevant to the discussion in regards to beauty standards, but it is me explaining my thought process.

Naturally, I would not assume you were insulting me, but I fail to see how this could be a case of eurocentrism. Naturally, I have lived most of my days in Europe, but I have travelled far and wide, seen how people interacted with me, and heard comments in regards to asiatic opinions upon beauty standards, and how most of their metrics commonly associate with European aesthetics. Now, I cannot ignore the possibility that it may be related to the fact that I am, myself, of germanic origin, and european. I have heard that many Japanese, in particularly, are rather conflict averse in public social interactions, but I have also heard enough in regards as to their fascination with the west. It is not, exactly, hidden from the public eye. Exotic fascination, perhaps not dissimilar from how I would like to have a pet tiger, regardless of how unfeasible it may be.

In regards to how you perceive the practice, I would recommend you to read Ralph Millard Junior's "The Oriental Eyelid and its Surgical Revision." I believe it could be educational, though it may be a great hassle to actually access it through institutional archives. Since they cost money.

On an unrelated note, I am not a fan of "Jokers." 'Insane' characters who know 'no reason.' People cannot do them justice, and exaggerate the conditions of insanity to ludicrousness. It always feels tame, dumb, and misplaced.

 

[sevyn]

To initiate, there are many ethnicities within Europe beyond "white people," whatever "white people" actually are. The same can be said of any ethnic debate, in any place. But for Europe in particular, it is an impossibly rich ethnic ancestral hodge of diversity contained within a very small landmass as a result of millennia of migratory peoples and histories of settlements and diasporas as caused by kingdoms, empires, or natural disasters, not to mention wars or national strife.

And whilst I never stated that wide eyes were an exclusivity to anyone, it is fact that they come more naturally to western ethnic groups. And, it is also factual that "europeans" are viewed, aesthetically, very highly for their beauty by Koreans and Japanese. I have my own personal ideas for why this is, mostly rooted in the post-war reconstruction process sans the second world war, where western powers rebuilt and occupied Japan and Korea, whilst making them 'westernized' in how they operated. Lest we forget that Japan had, until the Post War-era, been a military dictatorship under the rule of an emperor as advised by stratocratic administrators. Now, this is not relevant to the discussion in regards to beauty standards, but it is me explaining my thought process.

Naturally, I would not assume you were insulting me, but I fail to see how this could be a case of eurocentrism. Naturally, I have lived most of my days in Europe, but I have travelled far and wide, seen how people interacted with me, and heard comments in regards to asiatic opinions upon beauty standards, and how most of their metrics commonly associate with European aesthetics. Now, I cannot ignore the possibility that it may be related to the fact that I am, myself, of germanic origin, and european. I have heard that many Japanese, in particularly, are rather conflict averse in public social interactions, but I have also heard enough in regards as to their fascination with the west. It is not, exactly, hidden from the public eye. Exotic fascination, perhaps not dissimilar from how I would like to have a pet tiger, regardless of how unfeasible it may be.

In regards to how you perceive the practice, I would recommend you to read Ralph Millard Junior's "The Oriental Eyelid and its Surgical Revision." I believe it could be educational, though it may be a great hassle to actually access it through institutional archives. Since they cost money.

you don't know what white people are... ? white is a race, not an ethnicity. race is defined by your physical characteristics; sometimes it can be a bit confusing to pinpoint someone's race, but most of the time it's not too hard to point out someone who's white, someone who's asian, someone who's black, etc. ethnicity is more broad and complex - but for instance, "asian" is a race. korean, vietnamese, thai, indonesian, japanese, etc are several ethnic groups within that race. it seems pretty obvious to me that you're referring to white people when you say "europeans" or "westerners."

i'm not sure where you're getting these "facts" from either. for one thing, it seems like you must not meet many asian people, we don't all have almond shaped monolid eyes, contrary to popular belief; i have many relatives from the japanese side of my family whose eyes are naturally much more round, and / or who have double lids. it's not as uncommon as you seem to think... ?

it's eurocentrism because you're failing to look beyond your view as a european and assuming that asian people have some strange fascination with wanting to look white, which simply isn't true for the vast majority. also implying that asian people don't have visual diversity? the people you see in media or on the internet are not a representation of all asian people, or all japanese people. have you ever been to japan? i'm inclined to believe that you haven't... or perhaps just as a tourist. furthermore, i don't see how reading another white man's hot take on asian culture is going to change anything? also, considering the context under which he "de-orientalised" his korean patients, i'm not sure it's exactly applicable to modern culture. my point here is that, instead of taking your so-called facts from a white man's book published in 1964, there might be more to learn by... paying attention to what actual asian people have to say.

quick edit - i'm not saying that we aren't interested by western culture, but it's definitely not in the way that you seem to think. if that were the case, mixed people probably wouldn't be treated like foreigners in japanese society, for example. all in all, please differentiate fiction from reality and don't assume that japanese ppl are trying to look white just bc they use contacts or hair dye. same goes for koreans who get double lid surgery... yeesh

 

[Malphaestus]

you don't know what white people are... ? white is a race, not an ethnicity. race is defined by your physical characteristics; sometimes it can be a bit confusing to pinpoint someone's race, but most of the time it's not too hard to point out someone who's white, someone who's asian, someone who's black, etc. ethnicity is more broad and complex - but for instance, "asian" is a race. korean, vietnamese, thai, indonesian, japanese, etc are several ethnic groups within that race. it seems pretty obvious to me that you're referring to white people when you say "europeans" or "westerners."

i'm not sure where you're getting these "facts" from either. for one thing, it seems like you must not meet many asian people, we don't all have almond shaped monolid eyes, contrary to popular belief; i have many relatives from the japanese side of my family whose eyes are naturally much more round, and / or who have double lids. it's not as uncommon as you seem to think... ?

it's eurocentrism because you're failing to look beyond your view as a european and assuming that asian people have some strange fascination with wanting to look white, which simply isn't true for the vast majority. also implying that asian people don't have visual diversity? the people you see in media or on the internet are not a representation of all asian people, or all japanese people. have you ever been to japan? i'm inclined to believe that you haven't... or perhaps just as a tourist. furthermore, i don't see how reading another white man's hot take on asian culture is going to change anything? also, considering the context under which he "de-orientalised" his korean patients, i'm not sure it's exactly applicable to modern culture. my point here is that, instead of taking your so-called facts from a white man's book published in 1964, there might be more to learn by... paying attention to what actual asian people have to say.

quick edit - i'm not saying that we aren't interested by western culture, but it's definitely not in the way that you seem to think. if that were the case, mixed people probably wouldn't be treated like foreigners in japanese society, for example. all in all, please differentiate fiction from reality and don't assume that japanese ppl are trying to look white just bc they use contacts or hair dye. same goes for koreans who get double lid surgery... yeesh

So, to initiate. I am well aware of what "white people" are. It is a grouping of people who are white, or herald from Europe, which means in practice nothing. It betrays the diversity contained within. Hence why I utilized the term "ethnic group," as the categorization of people through "race" has very bad history in Europe, not that it is a very good linguistic tool when seeking deeper discourse either way.

"Race" is an arbitrary construct, with arbitrary borders constructed, in regards to human denominations, for political, economic, or military benefit, rooted in tribalism, or clan-culture. Nation-States are much the same, though go far beyond. Race has no distinct aesthetic feature, a race can be anything so long as people believe it. Even in taxonomy the term is not concrete, and arguably arbitrary. Though, I will play along with you, and associate "race" with skin colour, or whatever nebulous features any given person may have. But, it is not a very useful term.

"White," in relation to peoples, is little but a pigmentation caused by geographical and ecological factors related to the sun and generalized heat. "White people" can carry an astonishing array of differentiating features, and often do. That is not to say I am a fool, unaware of what you are talking about: "white people" just means "people of european descent," obviously. Which is why I am unsure as to why you would seek to correct me on that regard, but alas. Regardless, the term itself implies features which are "european," but as europe is home to a vast array of different ethnic groups, this implication is useless. It is more complex than this, which is why I sought to avoid it. But, I will acknowledge, that even I fell pray to generalization. After all, I utilized the term "European" myself, which is against my principles, without thinking. It is very difficult to avoid falling prey to the gestalt of common discourse indeed.

Not to sound disparaging, but to regard nationalities as ethnic groups is false practice. It is, frankly, wrong. That is not how it works. That does not mean that a nationality does not include a predominant ethnic group, but it disregards the fact that there are many ethnic groups which do not own a nation themselves. Though, I admit, you may be aware of this, and simply wrote what came up to the top of your head. Regardless, there is a reason I stated "germanic," as opposed to "swedish" when inferring my own appearance. Sweden, after all, has far more ethnicites than whatever most look like.

These supposed "facts" come from the beauty standards of koreans and japanese respectively (I see no reason to present them anymore, considering you did not appear to read my prior recommendation), in addition to my personal experiences whilst in the two aforementioned places. I have not been in any other nation in asia, which is why I dare not make comments as to their standards of beauty. But, the standards I refer to, in this instance koreans', are the eyes, nose, eyelids, facial structure, and complexion. And, when I referred to finding "Europeans" attractive, I admit that I referred to northern europeans in this instance. Hence why I disparaged myself for my unruly reference of ethnicity prior, as when you do not utilize groupings of people properly, it arises to misunderstandings such as these. Obviously, the beauty standards are immensely demanding, as any are.

You imply what I think, but when did I imply that they were uncommon? If you are using me as a stand-in for the belief of others, you should truly not. I did not speak words other than my own. Regardless, double-eyelid surgery is undertaken predominantly in Asia, this is another of my supposedly bad "facts." It must means something, don't you think? Asian Blepharoplasty.

I did not assume that asian people had some strange fascination with looking white, I acknowledged the fact that certain traits are not predominant within the ethnic grouping of certain people. It is simple geneology, traits and characteristics surface through living in an environment, changing over time in accordance with which people are able to parent children. It is simply how people work. If more people 'than I seem to think' are born without a noticable epicanthic fold, that merely speaks towards the visual attractiveness of those without epicanthic folds, and little else, as an example. Now, why am I making mention of this?

Well, it pertains to the parts of my recommended reading which you did not read, disparaged, and assumed in regards of. I could respect not reading something if you could not read it, but I would prefer it if you do not infer from it "something" when you know not of what it contains. Or do you think standards of visual beauty appeared from the aether? Are they concrete, and never-changing? Then why do we go through clothing trends?

Something else that I seek to avoid, in the roleplaying sphere, is any roleplay which contains multiple characters by any one participant. They do not last long, and the one with all the characters are always so vital, and always burns themself out.

 

[nerdy tangents]

I listened to a podcast that did touch in the eyelid thing. I can’t remember specifically what they said but I do remember what “westernization” means.

As near as I can tell it’s more about attitude and fashion then appearance. The whitening of skin for instance pre-dates western influence by quiet a lot (I wanna say the eyelid thing does as well). I wanna say it’s more Chinese influence but don’t quote me on that.

The point is “looking western” has nothing to do with hair or eye color and more to do with how you dress. And how you act.

I think European Beauty Standards are such a thing in western society it can be easy to assume their more universal then they are.

That said Beauty Standards in general are a tricky thing in roleplays. I personally steer clear of them like they’re a pile of hot garbage on the sidewalk.

My characters are never created with the idea that they have to fit into European attractiveness. I try my best to make my characters look as ordinary as possible.

It is admittedly easier in fantasy or modern roleplays. Anything historical and ya kinda got to go with overly glamorized shots cuz no one wasted the effort it took to make a photo if they weren’t at their absolute best.

 

[sevyn]

Not to sound disparaging, but to regard nationalities as ethnic groups is false practice. It is, frankly, wrong. That is not how it works. That does not mean that a nationality does not include a predominant ethnic group, but it disregards the fact that there are many ethnic groups which do not own a nation themselves. Though, I admit, you may be aware of this, and simply wrote what came up to the top of your head. Regardless, there is a reason I stated "germanic," as opposed to "swedish" when inferring my own appearance. Sweden, after all, has far more ethnicites than whatever most look like.

i feel like you must be the one who misunderstands the difference between nationality and ethnicity. race, nationality and ethnicity are three different things, but they have crossover. ethnicity is defined mostly by culture, nationality is defined by where you live, and they obviously have a lot of overlap."japanese" is an ethnicity, but there are multiple other ethnic groups in japanese society - ie the ainu people. but saying "japanese" as a descriptor of ethnicity is still correct, so what exactly are you trying to get at here?

it also seems like you're really trying to dance around using the word "white," which i don't get. yeah, you're 'of germanic origin'... that means you're white, buddy.

also the standards you're talking about still don't make much sense to me. take your example complexion for instance; in many asian cultures, having a fair complexion is rooted as a symbol of high standing. in the past, wealthy people did not have to do labor in the sun like commoners did, resulting in a fair complexion, hence why it's still considered as desirable today. as i mentioned about wide eyes, it's mostly to give a brighter and more youthful appearance, not to look european. as a matter of fact, most of the ideal physical features in korea are not things that are necessarily associated with northern europeans, with the exception of double eyelids - but, again, that's common in literally every race, including asian people. a large focus in korean beauty standards is to have a slim, fresh-faced appearance, most of which are rooted in korean history, nothing to do with white people as much as you want to believe that for some reason.

You imply what I think, but when did I imply that they were uncommon? If you are using me as a stand-in for the belief of others, you should truly not. I did not speak words other than my own. Regardless, double-eyelid surgery is undertaken predominantly in Asia, this is another of my supposedly bad "facts." It must means something, don't you think? Asian Blepharoplasty.

when did you imply that it was uncommon?

An incredibly large assortment of women go through aesthetic-corrective eye surgey, so that their eyelids look more 'european.'

right here. yes, korean women do go under the knife for double lid surgery, but not to look european - which wasn't even an implication, it's literally right there. you very clearly state that it's because they want to look european, when i've stated twice now that european influence has absolutely nothing to do with it.

it is fact that they come more naturally to western ethnic groups

also here. "come more naturally"? like i said, plenty of east asian people with natural double eyelids exist, and regardless, double eyelids are the single most common type of eyelid through any ethnic group.

Or do you think standards of visual beauty appeared from the aether? Are they concrete, and never-changing? Then why do we go through clothing trends?

no, i don't. i think standards of visual beauty depend on what is significant to individual cultures. once again: fair skin started as a symbol of wealth in various cultures. it's common in south korea to place emphasis on youth, you can even see this in some common trends and mannerisms such as aegyo, so the fact that their beauty standards revolve around dainty, youthful aesthetics is to be expected, where do you get the european aspect from?

I listened to a podcast that did touch in the eyelid thing. I can’t remember specifically what they said but I do remember what “westernization” means.

As near as I can tell it’s more about attitude and fashion then appearance. The whitening of skin for instance pre-dates western influence by quiet a lot (I wanna say the eyelid thing does as well). I wanna say it’s more Chinese influence but don’t quote me on that.

The point is “looking western” has nothing to do with hair or eye color and more to do with how you dress. And how you act.

I think European Beauty Standards are such a thing in western society it can be easy to assume their more universal then they are.

That said Beauty Standards in general are a tricky thing in roleplays. I personally steer clear of them like they’re a pile of hot garbage on the sidewalk.

My characters are never created with the idea that they have to fit into European attractiveness. I try my best to make my characters look as ordinary as possible.

It is admittedly easier in fantasy or modern roleplays. Anything historical and ya kinda got to go with overly glamorized shots cuz no one wasted the effort it took to make a photo if they weren’t at their absolute best.

you spittin rn!! especially about the fashion think. if the intent was to have a western aesthetic, would that not include fashion? korean fashion trends are hardly anything like westerners, same with japanese fashion trends- in fact, i'd say they both are far more influential on fashion trends both in their respective home nations and on western culture - like harajuku, for instance. and i definitely agree about the behavioural aspect. japan and korea do have their western influences, such as loan words i guess, but it's not like korea and japan don't have their obvious influences as well.

i'd say i see way more white people trying to look asian than i see asian people trying to look white. look into asian fishing - very common right now in western industries.

edit: i also want to add that getting double lid surgery doesn’t even make them look white in the slightest so many east asian people have double eyelids naturally, like i said before, but also it’s not like going from monolids to double lids makes them look any less asian. i wanted to add this bc i was thinking about white people who literally glue their eyelids to look like monolids as an attempt at looking asian (common in kboos and weaboos), which IS an example of changing your physical features as an attempt to mimic someone else’s ethnic features

 

[Syntra]

So, to initiate. I am well aware of what "white people" are. It is a grouping of people who are white, or herald from Europe, which means in practice nothing. It betrays the diversity contained within. Hence why I utilized the term "ethnic group," as the categorization of people through "race" has very bad history in Europe, not that it is a very good linguistic tool when seeking deeper discourse either way.

"Race" is an arbitrary construct, with arbitrary borders constructed, in regards to human denominations, for political, economic, or military benefit, rooted in tribalism, or clan-culture. Nation-States are much the same, though go far beyond. Race has no distinct aesthetic feature, a race can be anything so long as people believe it. Even in taxonomy the term is not concrete, and arguably arbitrary. Though, I will play along with you, and associate "race" with skin colour, or whatever nebulous features any given person may have. But, it is not a very useful term.

"White," in relation to peoples, is little but a pigmentation caused by geographical and ecological factors related to the sun and generalized heat. "White people" can carry an astonishing array of differentiating features, and often do. That is not to say I am a fool, unaware of what you are talking about: "white people" just means "people of european descent," obviously. Which is why I am unsure as to why you would seek to correct me on that regard, but alas. Regardless, the term itself implies features which are "european," but as europe is home to a vast array of different ethnic groups, this implication is useless. It is more complex than this, which is why I sought to avoid it. But, I will acknowledge, that even I fell pray to generalization. After all, I utilized the term "European" myself, which is against my principles, without thinking. It is very difficult to avoid falling prey to the gestalt of common discourse indeed.

Not to sound disparaging, but to regard nationalities as ethnic groups is false practice. It is, frankly, wrong. That is not how it works. That does not mean that a nationality does not include a predominant ethnic group, but it disregards the fact that there are many ethnic groups which do not own a nation themselves. Though, I admit, you may be aware of this, and simply wrote what came up to the top of your head. Regardless, there is a reason I stated "germanic," as opposed to "swedish" when inferring my own appearance. Sweden, after all, has far more ethnicites than whatever most look like.

These supposed "facts" come from the beauty standards of koreans and japanese respectively (I see no reason to present them anymore, considering you did not appear to read my prior recommendation), in addition to my personal experiences whilst in the two aforementioned places. I have not been in any other nation in asia, which is why I dare not make comments as to their standards of beauty. But, the standards I refer to, in this instance koreans', are the eyes, nose, eyelids, facial structure, and complexion. And, when I referred to finding "Europeans" attractive, I admit that I referred to northern europeans in this instance. Hence why I disparaged myself for my unruly reference of ethnicity prior, as when you do not utilize groupings of people properly, it arises to misunderstandings such as these. Obviously, the beauty standards are immensely demanding, as any are.

You imply what I think, but when did I imply that they were uncommon? If you are using me as a stand-in for the belief of others, you should truly not. I did not speak words other than my own. Regardless, double-eyelid surgery is undertaken predominantly in Asia, this is another of my supposedly bad "facts." It must means something, don't you think? Asian Blepharoplasty.

I did not assume that asian people had some strange fascination with looking white, I acknowledged the fact that certain traits are not predominant within the ethnic grouping of certain people. It is simple geneology, traits and characteristics surface through living in an environment, changing over time in accordance with which people are able to parent children. It is simply how people work. If more people 'than I seem to think' are born without a noticable epicanthic fold, that merely speaks towards the visual attractiveness of those without epicanthic folds, and little else, as an example. Now, why am I making mention of this?

Well, it pertains to the parts of my recommended reading which you did not read, disparaged, and assumed in regards of. I could respect not reading something if you could not read it, but I would prefer it if you do not infer from it "something" when you know not of what it contains. Or do you think standards of visual beauty appeared from the aether? Are they concrete, and never-changing? Then why do we go through clothing trends?

Something else that I seek to avoid, in the roleplaying sphere, is any roleplay which contains multiple characters by any one participant. They do not last long, and the one with all the characters are always so vital, and always burns themself out.

That is a lot of words. As a white European myself, I will ask you one simple question that I would like you to also answer simply, if at all possible: despite the genetic diversity Europe doubtlessly has, do you claim that you can't easily distinguish an ethnic European from, say, an ethnic Asian?

Also, I feel like we as Europeans shouldn't really speak about how 'race' as a concept is problematic for us. It has a very bad history here, but this is a US-based site, and their history is different. It has different connotations and it is a useful term for the local POC.