Experiences Whats making you angry today? Rp pet peeves

[bastion]

Again you keep stating things I never said, at no point did I say that you shouldn't give credit. However, I think it's a bit hyperbolic to believe that people are out here trying not steal from an artist just because they use a picture as an FC as it completely ignores the spirit of what an FC is. Most logical people already know the FC does not belong not the user, it is being used for what is essentially an RPG you could even see it as a form of fan fiction. Now there isn't an issue with someone asking you to give an artist credit, but by no means does that give you the right to be an asshat while doing it. If being rude is your first response I don't care if they forgot or didn't think to credit because believe it or not most people's intention was not to hurt you to try to steal from you, it literally may have just slipped their minds because of the very culture of roleplay using pictures as FC's is seen as harmless so if your first reaction is to go from 0-100 without even trying to talk to the person civilly the yes you are wrong.

Now if you asked this person nicely and they just said fuck that and fuck you then by all means unleash hell because at that point they're knowingly being rude.

You are entirely correct that is become normalized in the rp community to use art without the artist's permission or giving credit.

However, using someone's art without giving credit is rude and even actively harmful at times. It can cost people they're jobs, as well cause emotional harm when it's personal art.

Yes, it would be nice if people were polite when asking for credit. But I don't think someone has the right to complain about someone talking rude to them, when they already showed they have no respect for the art they're using.

 

[Huntertabbysandshark3]

You are entirely correct that is become normalized in the rp community to use art without the artist's permission or giving credit.

However, using someone's art without giving credit is rude and even actively harmful at times. It can cost people they're jobs, as well cause emotional harm when it's personal art.

Yes, it would be nice if people were polite when asking for credit. But I don't think someone has the right to complain about someone talking rude to them, when they already showed they have no respect for the art they're using.

Cost people there job? i cant really understand why? a lot of your reasons are kinda...hyperbolic

 

[Coco Adel]

You are entirely correct that is become normalized in the rp community to use art without the artist's permission or giving credit.

However, using someone's art without giving credit is rude and even actively harmful at times. It can cost people they're jobs, as well cause emotional harm when it's personal art.

Yes, it would be nice if people were polite when asking for credit. But I don't think someone has the right to complain about someone talking rude to them, when they already showed they have no respect for the art they're using.

Again I'm gonna have to say that this is a little hyperbolic and quite frankly sounds like an excuse to be rude to people. You admit that using art without credit is normalized in the RP community and there are reasons for this. Namely that most well-known artist have put it out there that artist typically don't care if you credit them when using their art for things like RP and fan fiction because they'd rather not have thousands of people bugging them over something so small in their opinion. Now of course I am aware that not everyone feels this way, however, when this is the majority of what people hear it is accepted widely as th norm and therefore someone not instantly thinking to credit you when they aren't profiting from your art and simply using it to play the equivalent of a game does not automatically mean that they intended to disrespect you. I'm also pretty sure that most people don't think or know that using a piece of art in what amounts to a game is going to cost someone their job as most people assume the art they are using was already commissioned and the artist as received the money for said work so them using it couldn't possible take money away from them. I think it is important to make people aware of this before jumping down their throats and I certainly don't think you the right to tell someone how to react when you come at them sideways. You get what you get, if you're rude without explanation or even trying you can't tell someone not to take issue with how you came at them.

 

[Coco Adel]

Stealing art isn't just claiming you made it, it's posting it without credit/permission, it doesn't matter if you didn't "mean" to steal it. I understand that a lot of art is posted without credit, but that does not make it harmless or okay to participate in. I agree with you that it would be wrong of someone to be overtly rude or mean without asking for credit in a more civil way, but it's also wrong to have used the art without credit in the first place, that shouldn't get excused.​

I'm not saying it's okay but there is a better way to go about it and it's not by ignoring the obvious culture behind RP and face claims or the fact that most well-known mostly YouTube artists have put it put there as a generalization that artist typically don't care about being credited when their work is being used in RP in fan-fiction. I think the best way is to bring awareness and educate people rather than instantly trying to shove your boot down their throat and act like they're the scum of the earth.

 

[ravensunset]

I'm not saying it's okay but there is a better way to go about it and it's not by ignoring the obvious culture behind RP and face claims or the fact that most well-known mostly YouTube artists have put it put there as a generalization that artist typically don't care about being credited when their work is being used in RP in fan-fiction. I think the best way is to bring awareness and educate people rather than instantly trying to shove your boot down their throat and act like they're the scum of the earth.

Just because some accounts, or even most accounts in a certain subgroup, allow their art to be used in this way doesn’t mean that all do, and how would you know whether that applies to the art piece you found without finding the artist first? I agree that it's better to ask nicely and educate, but posting uncredited art (unless you know the artist and have permission) is already rude, regardless of intent- why don't your statements about if you did something rude you get whatever's coming apply to that?​

 

[bastion]

Anyway, I've been letting myself argue this for much too long and it's taking it's toll. So I'm going to send this last message and then walk away.

Using art without the artist's express permission is art theft.

• Reposting art buries the original, not only making it difficult to find the artist, but it has also lost artist's jobs when a potential employer found their art posted by multiple people.
• Art is often an extremely personal thing, so taking someone's art and using it for your OCs can cause emotional harm if the artist discovers it.
• Even fanart can be personal to the artist, and when it's not they still put time, skill, and effort into creating the art piece. That deserves credit at the very least.

There are free resources for creating character images. You don't need to take someone's art to use for your OC.

• Picrew｜つくってあそべる画像メーカー, Artbreeder, This Person Does Not Exist, Hero Forge Custom Miniatures, and https://eldritch-foundry.com/ are just some of those resources.
• If none of those work for you, instead of looking up random images on Google, perhaps you could search for free art resources.
• Some artists even offer design and illustration requests so it's possible to get custom designs and art for free.

If you're going to use someone's art, give them credit. If you don't, you don't get to complain about people being rude to you, when you're being rude to the artist.

• Reposting someone's art in general, but especially without credit, is harmful to the artist. It can cost the artist jobs, cause them emotional harm, and has led to artists leaving the public space.
• If you like someone's art enough to use it for your OC, acknowledge the artist and help others find them.
• Yes, educating people and being polite is the best route when asking for credit, but sometimes a person's patience runs out.

 

[Coco Adel]

Just because some accounts, or even most accounts in a certain subgroup, allow their art to be used in this way doesn’t mean that all do, and how would you know whether that applies to the art piece you found without finding the artist first? I agree that it's better to ask nicely and educate, but posting uncredited art (unless you know the artist and have permission) is already rude, regardless of intent- why don't your statements about if you did something rude you get whatever's coming apply to that?​

Because again you are ignoring the obvious. Yes, it is true that just because some artist are okay with it doesn't mean that they all are. However, you cannot ignore the fact that because this the majority of what people hear that it is what is accepted as the norm. So sorry, no not everyone is going to think to credit the artist because people are widely under the impression that people do not care about something so trivial as RP to want credit in that circle. The difference is that one is intentionally rude and the other is not. As you may have seen in my earlier post I clearly state that if you inform a person of this and they actively choose to continue then yes they get what they get but no I do not believe it applies to someone who does not know that they are doing harm. You cannot fault someone for not knowing something, but you can fault someone for purposely being rude.

 

[Crenando]

Cost people there job? i cant really understand why? a lot of your reasons are kinda...hyperbolic

Most artists, in the sense we're talking about, are self-employed or doing it on the side while they work another job or go to college in my experience. A stolen picture on a t-shirt is gonna hurt that person's bottom line infinitely harder than an image being embedded on an RP site.

Besides, the site is full of content derived from other media. When does it become stealing? When does crediting the creators of the original become unreasonable?

 

[Karcen]

i doubt many people from an RP are going to go looking for an artist that may or may not do commissions. If they wanted to get commissioned art they would be looking for it already. If a person does want to hunt the artist down its one reverse search away or even a reply away to go to the source of the picture. If an artists doesn't want their art to be linked and shown off by others they should not upload it because someone will and if they really want to demand no one use it without paying them then they should lawyer up to protect their copyright and file copyrights with the proper authority.

 

[Huntertabbysandshark3]

Anyway, I've been letting myself argue this for much too long and it's taking it's toll. So I'm going to send this last message and then walk away.

Using art without the artist's express permission is art theft.

• Reposting art buries the original, not only making it difficult to find the artist, but it has also lost artist's jobs when a potential employer found their art posted by multiple people.
• Art is often an extremely personal thing, so taking someone's art and using it for your OCs can cause emotional harm if the artist discovers it.
• Even fanart can be personal to the artist, and when it's not they still put time, skill, and effort into creating the art piece. That deserves credit at the very least.

There are free resources for creating character images. You don't need to take someone's art to use for your OC.

• Picrew｜つくってあそべる画像メーカー, Artbreeder, This Person Does Not Exist, Hero Forge Custom Miniatures, and https://eldritch-foundry.com/ are just some of those resources.
• If none of those work for you, instead of looking up random images on Google, perhaps you could search for free art resources.
• Some artists even offer design and illustration requests so it's possible to get custom designs and art for free.

If you're going to use someone's art, give them credit. If you don't, you don't get to complain about people being rude to you, when you're being rude to the artist.

• Reposting someone's art in general, but especially without credit, is harmful to the artist. It can cost the artist jobs, cause them emotional harm, and has led to artists leaving the public space.
• If you like someone's art enough to use it for your OC, acknowledge the artist and help others find them.
• Yes, educating people and being polite is the best route when asking for credit, but sometimes a person's patience runs out.

Your opinion just as valid as everyone else even if your acting a bit rudely don’t take the discussion as saying your utterly wrong but I think your going about to kinda pretentiously

 

[Karcen]

Coco Adel if you like the art enough to use it as a face claim, why don't you care enough to credit the artist despite saying reverse image searching is easy?

Also, when your say people don't use OCs as face claims, do you mean they're only using fanart? In that case, yeah it's not so bad. I still think the minimum you can do is credit the artist to show you actually respect the work they put into creating the artwork.

However, in my experience, people use random art they find online with no reference for who the subject is. A little bit of digging often reveals it's an OC, or even a self portrait. When an artist draws a random subject, it's usually something personal to them. Sometimes even one-off drawings where they never draw or use the character again are something incredibly precious to the artist.

seems to me if they are going to get that obsessive over protecting it they should not post it that way no one could hurt them by not paying them.

 

[nerdy tangents]

I think it comes down to respecting people’s time and talent. I used to do photomanipulations for roleplays. I would take models and change skin colors, add wings, etc. for people who wanted.

I credited not only the models I used but also any image packs used when adding wings, horns, whatever to the characters.

It took me days of hard work to make OCs both for myself and also for other people.

Other peoples OCs where not allowed to be posted again. As I considered it to be character stealing.

However my personal OCs I would just request that people link back to the original image. This way the models, background artists, etc would get proper credit.

I understand it seems unimportant if you aren’t an artist and you don’t know how much time and effort goes into creating a piece of art.

But think of it this way, most artists get paid through word of mouth. Someone sees a piece of art they like, asks where it’s from, and then contacts the artist for commission.

So by taking the art but not linking the artist you are depriving them of that word of mouth. You never know maybe your partner will want to make a commission at a later point. Or maybe they’ll share the image with a friend who will make a commission.

The point is you can either be a part of that worth of mouth chain getting the artist out there to potential buyers. Or you can just take something because it looks nice and devalue that persons work.

Because bastion is right, if you take without credit then your saying art is public property and the artist shouldn’t get paid for their work. And yeah one person might not make a huge different but the fact that multiple people seem to think it’s okay not to credit means it’s not just one person devaluing the work.

And over time multiple people devaluing work adds up.

 

[Karcen]

I think it comes down to respecting people’s time and talent. I used to do photomanipulations for roleplays. I would take models and change skin colors, add wings, etc. for people who wanted.

I credited not only the models I used but also any image packs used when adding wings, horns, whatever to the characters.

It took me days of hard work to make OCs both for myself and also for other people.

Other peoples OCs where not allowed to be posted again. As I considered it to be character stealing.

However my personal OCs I would just request that people link back to the original image. This way the models, background artists, etc would get proper credit.

I understand it seems unimportant if you aren’t an artist and you don’t know how much time and effort goes into creating a piece of art.

But think of it this way, most artists get paid through word of mouth. Someone sees a piece of art they like, asks where it’s from, and then contacts the artist for commission.

So by taking the art but not linking the artist you are depriving them of that word of mouth. You never know maybe your partner will want to make a commission at a later point. Or maybe they’ll share the image with a friend who will make a commission.

The point is you can either be a part of that worth of mouth chain getting the artist out there to potential buyers. Or you can just take something because it looks nice and devalue that persons work.

Because bastion is right, if you take without credit then your saying art is public property and the artist shouldn’t get paid for their work. And yeah one person might not make a huge different but the fact that multiple people seem to think it’s okay not to credit means it’s not just one person devaluing the work.

And over time multiple people devaluing work adds up.

if anyone desires that they can ask, they can hit reply and take the link to the work, if they are to shy to say hey this is cool who did it then they didn't really have any interest in purchasing anything.

 

[Huntertabbysandshark3]

I think it comes down to respecting people’s time and talent. I used to do photomanipulations for roleplays. I would take models and change skin colors, add wings, etc. for people who wanted.

I credited not only the models I used but also any image packs used when adding wings, horns, whatever to the characters.

It took me days of hard work to make OCs both for myself and also for other people.

Other peoples OCs where not allowed to be posted again. As I considered it to be character stealing.

However my personal OCs I would just request that people link back to the original image. This way the models, background artists, etc would get proper credit.

I understand it seems unimportant if you aren’t an artist and you don’t know how much time and effort goes into creating a piece of art.

But think of it this way, most artists get paid through word of mouth. Someone sees a piece of art they like, asks where it’s from, and then contacts the artist for commission.

So by taking the art but not linking the artist you are depriving them of that word of mouth. You never know maybe your partner will want to make a commission at a later point. Or maybe they’ll share the image with a friend who will make a commission.

The point is you can either be a part of that worth of mouth chain getting the artist out there to potential buyers. Or you can just take something because it looks nice and devalue that persons work.

Because bastion is right, if you take without credit then your saying art is public property and the artist shouldn’t get paid for their work. And yeah one person might not make a huge different but the fact that multiple people seem to think it’s okay not to credit means it’s not just one person devaluing the work.

And over time multiple people devaluing work adds up.

Doesn’t help when people act with pure vitrol, nor does it really make those who are not so skilled feel? Welcome? It really feels lIke those that act like total dicks about these things promote a total hostile environment

 

[nerdy tangents]

seems to me if they are going to get that obsessive over protecting it they should not post it that way no one could hurt them by not paying them.

See my above post, art is rarely sold in physical form. At least the kind of art that would be made for online commissions.

So if they want to make money they have to have samples of their work available online AND they have to post the commissions they make for other people somewhere that person can access them.

Yeah it would be nice if every person who makes art for a living could print physical objects and mail them but that’s not cost effective.

Plus honestly some artists are fine with people using their work (there are a multitude of licenses under which you can post art or photos).

The point is instead of just googling and calling it a day, take the extra step to just see what the original artists actually wants in terms of credit.

Some are cool with just a link back to their portfolio. Some are like don’t take my stuff period. Some don’t give a fuck either way.

But you won’t know which is which if you just Google and be done with it.

 

[Karcen]

See my above post, art is rarely sold in physical form. At least the kind of art that would be made for online commissions.

So if they want to make money they have to have samples of their work available online AND they have to post the commissions they make for other people somewhere that person can access them.

Yeah it would be nice if every person who makes art for a living could print physical objects and mail them but that’s not cost effective.

Plus honestly some artists are fine with people using their work (there are a multitude of licenses under which you can post art or photos).

The point is instead of just googling and calling it a day, take the extra step to just see what the original artists actually wants in terms of credit.

Some are cool with just a link back to their portfolio. Some are like don’t take my stuff period. Some don’t give a fuck either way.

But you won’t know which is which if you just Google and be done with it.

it is on the head of the copyright holder to enforce their copyright at least in us legal system. The artists if they are serious should start suing people then for the revenue they think they will have lost from a person using their picture. So start suing people and let the courts decided if Rp counts as a transformative work or no.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Doesn’t help when people act with pure vitrol, nor does it really make those who are not so skilled feel? Welcome? It really feels lIke those that act like total dicks about these things promote a total hostile environment

I mean it’s not a matter of lack of talent as it’s a matter of lack of manners.

No one is saying you can’t use art that you didn’t make yourself OR didn’t buy. There are multiple sites specifically designed to let you make your own characters using creators.

Heck there are people who make art that is perfectly free for use as well, or just require you to link the original artist.

So it’s less “what about the people who can’t draw” and just realizing that art isn’t some free thing on the internet you can’t take whenever you feel like.

 

[Huntertabbysandshark3]

I mean it’s not a matter of lack of talent as it’s a matter of lack of manners.

No one is saying you can’t use art that you didn’t make yourself OR didn’t buy. There are multiple sites specifically designed to let you make your own characters using creators.

Heck there are people who make art that is perfectly free for use as well, or just require you to link the original artist.

So it’s less “what about the people who can’t draw” and just realizing that art isn’t some free thing on the internet you can’t take whenever you feel like.

All I see is you defending hostility towards People and justifying it under the ”but what aboutism” sorry but that’s just how I see it even if that’s now your intention

 

[Aquanette]

I think something people often forget is that most of the people on this website are kids. Yes there are a fair amount of adults but I typically see them in the 1x1 or off-site section so I feel that posting FC's without credit would mostly fall on the kids on this site and I think it's kind of a dick move to be rude to a literal minor because they didn't think to give credit as most kids are only going to think about the fun and probably aren't aware that they're potentially harming someone.

 

[ravensunset]

I really don't understand why people have a problem with "defending hostility" but are writing entire paragraphs defending and excusing stealing art, even going so far as to blame the artist?​

 

[Huntertabbysandshark3]

I think something people often forget is that most of the people on this website are kids. Yes there are a fair amount of adults but I typically see them in the 1x1 or off-site section so I feel that posting FC's without credit would mostly fall on the kids on this site and I think it's kind of a dick move to be rude to a literal minor because they didn't think to give credit as most kids are only going to think about the fun and probably aren't aware that they're potentially harming someone.

Yeah the hostility of the reaction is what really gets me, like acting as if they are the arbitrator of how to run everything gets me so angry.. then they go flaunting there own art skill around often. Them the feeling of them being a huge dick/attention hog kicks in

 

[nerdy tangents]

I think something people often forget is that most of the people on this website are kids. Yes there are a fair amount of adults but I typically see them in the 1x1 or off-site section so I feel that posting FC's without credit would mostly fall on the kids on this site and I think it's kind of a dick move to be rude to a literal minor because they didn't think to give credit as most kids are only going to think about the fun and probably aren't aware that they're potentially harming someone.

I agree it’s a lot of kids. But kids don’t learn to change their behavior without it being pointed out as bad.

And honestly I have found the children on this site to be on the whole thankful for a gentle correction. Yeah they might not have thought of something before it’s brought up but just telling them “hey this thing your doing is harmful because XYZ” isn’t that big of a deal.

The only people who ever seem to throw fits about being questioned aren’t the kids but the adults.

Kids usually want to do the right thing, adults just want to be right.

 

[Karcen]

I really don't understand why people have a problem with "defending hostility" but are writing entire paragraphs defending and excusing stealing art, even going so far as to blame the artist?​

well are the arists protecting their copyright via legal actions?

 

[Daisie]

Wow, this went places, lol!

Alright guys, let's quit this. If you want to continue, take it to PMs, and remember to remain civil.

2 pages of derailing is too much. Let's scoot from the topic of art.

 

[Coco Adel]

I really don't understand why people have a problem with "defending hostility" but are writing entire paragraphs defending and excusing stealing art, even going so far as to blame the artist?​

I have an issue with defending unwanted hostility. My point was that not everyone fully understands or even agree on what art theft is and therefore may not be doing these things intentionally and to me, there is a difference between unintentionally doing something and doing something 100% on purpose. If you are doing something 100% on purpose you get what you get but if it was genuinely a mistake or misunderstanding then I don't think being hostile is warranted. At no point did I blame the artist.