Viewpoint What you cannot stand in characters?

[BackSet]

*cough*Ace Attorney*Cough*

 

[Zotar]

I don't have a lot of pet peeves to share. I'm just sort of looking for useful advice on things to avoid going forward. This thread had been a good read. I just have a few comments and questions.

On the topic of asshole characters, I tend to have a love hate. Though as a person who has a couple of asshole characters I generally don’t get mad if everyone else’s characters hate mine in IC. That’s the entire point on why I do it. Just to see if I can make enough of an asshole for most people to dislike. But getting all offended and huffy is contradictory. If you’re gonna make an asshole character, expect the hate and be happy cause you made such a horrible character personality wise. Lol.

How to play a good asshole character: Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino.

I have a peeve for dead parents written into a backstory- it's always the go to reason for a character to have experienced tragedy.

I wouldn't ever call out someone over it, but it's so much more interesting to me when a character not only has parents but they're super cool and just as dynamically written as the character themselves... or so evil that it's the character's destiny to kill them with their own hands.

Thanks for that. That gives me pause to rethink a backstory I already had planned for Xinnia, the Dark Elf Monk I'm running over in the dice section. I do want her to have something tragic in her backstory, and I've only dropped a hint at this point. It wasn't really something I included in her character sheet, so I'm making it up as I go. Is this... wrong?

Name symbolism is one of those things that sounds good on paper but then you realize it's untenable to give everyone a symbolic name. Most great and unique people have normal names anyway, and even if parents give their child a symbolic name it's not like theyre gonna bat 1.00 on predicting personality type. More often the guy with "Gentle breeze" won't end up a Buddhist monk. If he does in a story it can come off as contrived.

Best way to do symbolic names without being contrived is to do homages to characters from other works, or from history. I've done it here or there, and I do try and make the homage one that's on the obscure end, because you don't want a character's person to be overshadowed by something else. Like, I wouldnt make a competitive person and be like "Kobe.... his name is Kobe" but maybe use the same initials? Or involve his middle name (Bean) in some way? That way the homage is there for a symbolic aspect but it's not some scripted ass name.

Alternatively you can be an anti with names, give that "Gentle Breeze" name to a violent psycho lol. I like that a lot.

Muahahaha. Ironic names can be fun.

I've given some thought to names in trying to pin down the really meaningful ones. In the past, I've gotten hung up on just making my names as 'original' as possible. Some examples I've come up with include: Xenio, Gyradom, Nyaleep, Ka'rzique. Now they all kinda sound like nonsense names to me having no meanings whatsoever. Nowadays I try to look for... well... ACTUAL names. The more obscure, theme-friendly and meaningful a name, the happier I am. It takes a bit of research. Am I overthinking this?

 

[Crayons]

I don't have a lot of pet peeves to share. I'm just sort of looking for useful advice on things to avoid going forward. This thread had been a good read. I just have a few comments and questions.



View attachment 654713

How to play a good asshole character: Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino.



Thanks for that. That gives me pause to rethink a backstory I already had planned for Xinnia, the Dark Elf Monk I'm running over in the dice section. I do want her to have something tragic in her backstory, and I've only dropped a hint at this point. It wasn't really something I included in her character sheet, so I'm making it up as I go. Is this... wrong?



Muahahaha. Ironic names can be fun.

I've given some thought to names in trying to pin down the really meaningful ones. In the past, I've gotten hung up on just making my names as 'original' as possible. Some examples I've come up with include: Xenio, Gyradom, Nyaleep, Ka'rzique. Now they all kinda sound like nonsense names to me having no meanings whatsoever. Nowadays I try to look for... well... ACTUAL names. The more obscure, theme-friendly and meaningful a name, the happier I am. It takes a bit of research. Am I overthinking this?

Overthinking? What is that?! *Goes away to overthink about it*

I used to try and find meaningful names more, but usually now I pick names according to how they sound, and whether that suits the character. Sometimes I like it if they mean something as well, but only if it fits in context with who named them and why.

I also want to express here that I love playing jerkish, asshole characters. They are just fun to me. I like to give them redemption arcs, and/or make horrible things happen to them. I think the trick with them is to also make them believable, complex characters, and not to have them deliberately annoy all the other characters constantly.

 

[ashwynne]

I spend HOURS hunting for names that suit my characters. It has to fit the setting (ie. medieval setting? Old English names), has to sound nice when said out loud, and I’ll nix it if it has a meaning that doesn’t suit my character (like... “noble warrior” for the son of a peasant farmer). It takes me forever that way but it works for me and my characters.

I concur that edgy names make me want to curl in a ball somewhere and never see the light of day again xD

 

[Aerynth]

I spend HOURS hunting for names that suit my characters. It has to fit the setting (ie. medieval setting? Old English names), has to sound nice when said out loud, and I’ll nix it if it has a meaning that doesn’t suit my character (like... “noble warrior” for the son of a peasant farmer). It takes me forever that way but it works for me and my characters.

I concur that edgy names make me want to curl in a ball somewhere and never see the light of day again xD

Haha, that's the total opposite of what I do! Like, I do look up names when I play in a historical setting, but even then, I mostly choose the name within ten minutes or so. For fantasy settings, I... tend to choose random words from my native language. They sound exotic in English and I get to giggle at the fact that my overwhelmingly badass warrior is actually named something like nail, door or chicken.

 

[Jannah]

I mostly use name generators and randomize those until something I like comes up. As long as I think the name sounds good and fits the setting then I don't really care about further details.

 

[BackSet]

I mostly use name generators and randomize those until something I like comes up. As long as I think the name sounds good and fits the setting then I don't really care about further details.

Same.

 

[ashwynne]

I've always found names to be really meaningful so I like to make them something I can connect with on multiple levels. Usually when I find the right name it just clicks, but getting to that point usually requires quite a lot of research and digging lol. I tend to only use generators for surnames and/or place names at most. I'll also make names up completely for fantasy purposes if I feel like it, but normally I like using authentic names that I feel suit the character all around. I'm not really surprised that most people aren't as obsessive about that as I am

 

[Luxura]

I've always found names to be really meaningful so I like to make them something I can connect with on multiple levels. Usually when I find the right name it just clicks, but getting to that point usually requires quite a lot of research and digging lol. I tend to only use generators for surnames and/or place names at most. I'll also make names up completely for fantasy purposes if I feel like it, but normally I like using authentic names that I feel suit the character all around. I'm not really surprised that most people aren't as obsessive about that as I am

Finally, someone who is as detailed as myself!
I'm obsessed with names, they have so much meaning!
I even have a terrible not proven theory about how your 'middle'
name is a reflection of your true inner self.

I then, ironically, never source middle names for characters... ​

 

[Melpomene]

Finally, someone who is as detailed as myself!
I'm obsessed with names, they have so much meaning!
I even have a terrible not proven theory about how your 'middle'
name is a reflection of your true inner self.

I then, ironically, never source middle names for characters... ​

I agree, names can reflect so much about a character and the setting!

I always spend hours trying to come up with a first name for my characters haha. It is why it hurt when some past partners would flat out tell me I am horrible at naming when I put hours into trying to pick out the perfect one, even for a damn pet or NPC!

I think names are a very important part of any character. And sometimes it is very good to have even an IC story behind it.

 

[Jet]

Imo the character should make the name special, not the other way around. No symbolism behind the name Michael Jordan but he's the goat. He made the name special by being great. Some small symbolism here or there is whatever, but overt and consistent symbolism with things that aren't symbolic IRL pulls immersion. At a certain point it starts begging the question "do all parents in this story have psychic foresight?"

Not a debate thread but I think symbolism has been done to death. Again, in small doses it's whatever but iconic names come from accomplishments, not psychic prescience. Bill Gates was an average name when the man was born but now it's historic and symbolic because of his accomplishments. His name doesn't mean "Great genius" in Latin or some shit. If he were a fictional character and the author named him something meaning "Bringer of innovation" it'd be laughable. Like fr bro? Crazy ass luck that is innit? Do it a couple times with your cast and sure, sometimes symbolic names align with personality. Do it many times and you're trolling.

Symbolism has been confused with content because of high school English curriculums.

Edit

I'm not an authority on fuck all so if anyone wants to argue it with me that's fair. I think there's a problem where

Simple = bad and complex = good

As someone who appreciates the stark and simple this bothers me. Symbolism adds complexity but from what I've seen it rarely adds anything other than ham-handed subdermal exposition that can be shown through the story. It can be done well of course but so often it's just not.

 

[BackSet]

Who cares about symbolism when you can have puns!

 

[ashwynne]

Finally, someone who is as detailed as myself!
I'm obsessed with names, they have so much meaning!
I even have a terrible not proven theory about how your 'middle'
name is a reflection of your true inner self.

I then, ironically, never source middle names for characters... ​

Ahhhh I'm glad to find a kindred spirit when it comes to names!!
A lot of people name their children "with a wish" as in a name that has a meaning behind it that they'd wish for their child.
That's sort of my philosophy when choosing names. If they come from a background of warriors then a name with a meaning like "battle lord" or whatever is apt. If the family wants to climb the social ladder through marriage and have a daughter then "beautiful one" or "sweet snow" or whatever fluffy, pretty, nonsense that extols their beauty would fit.

I don't usually bother with middle names either, though your theory sounds interesting

Jet
I would argue that there are plenty of people historically who had names that suited their accomplishments. Alexander the Great, is a good example. His name is Greek in origin and means "defender of the people" or "protector of men." I'm too lazy to go do more googling but I'll bet there are loads of others. Likely because their parents had big dreams for them and wanted to pass them on in the form of a good name.

I think there's a big difference between people who name their characters using symbolism to try and be "cool," and those who give them names that are reflective of their parents and background.

As an example... I don't have kids, but if I were pregnant and looking for baby names I can tell you it would be require months of effort and extensive research. I'd want to pick a name that had meaning and elegance behind it, not just randomly choose something that sounded cool and leave it at that. And THAT is a real life example of being careful with naming.

It really comes down to schools of thought. My parents heard my name on TV during some sports thing, liked it, and decided to steal the name. Zero thought or effort behind it. It sounded nice, so they picked it. That's totally fine. I also know of people who (like I would) spent months researching and narrowing down until they landed on a name that sounded lovely AND had a meaning/history behind it that they liked.

 

[Jet]

ashwynne not to quibble examples (sorry) but "the great" was a title added onto his name after he became a conquerer. Also he spent his life killing people, protecter is an odd name for that kind if life. We assign meaning after action.

If a name is linked to background and there's precident then I can't complain, so we agree there. If you have a warrior family that name their kid something badass then yeah sure, I'm not gonna call that out. Fair play to you because everything adds up nicely. Youre not gonna have some viking warlord giving his first son a name meaning "Rose petal".

However, about the stuff with parents picking meanings, I'm sure many do but how many of those meanings are correct? How many people with pleasent name-meanings are in prison for homicide. How many "warrior" names work in a cubicle. How many "tranquil breeze" mfers are in therapy for anger management? Names picked pre-birth have no bearing on temperment. So if all the characters in a story have these perfectly aligned names where the meaning is linked to personality Imma roll my eyes.

"I think there's a big difference between people who name their characters using symbolism to try and be "cool," and those who give them names that are reflective of their parents and background"

Couldn't agree more, I think there's a lot of common ground here. Names should be thought out but what should be thought of most is the background, culture and mentality of the person doing the naming (parents or other guardian). Not the personality of a fully formed person twenty years after birth.

 

[ashwynne]

Jet
I just used “the great” as an identifier since saying “Alexander” wouldn’t tell you anything The name meaning I mentioned applies to the Alexander part, obviously not the title lol. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. And for the people he was fighting for I’d say they’d believe the name to be apt. Historically being a “defender” implied killing enemies. Whether you think he’s a heroic figure or not is subjective but he’d undeniably be considered a protector/defender of his own people.

I also realized that I’m coming at this as someone who never does RP’s in a modern setting. Mine are always historical or steeped in fantasy so the naming conventions make a lot more sense in that context. I’m with you 100% for modern day RP settings.

Ultimately I’d argue that people making good characters are going to have names that suit the environment they’re in/are logical choices. The two usually go hand in hand. Even “edgy” names can work if the context is correct so it comes down to the quality of character creation and the author.

Basically, as with most things, if the writer knows what they’re doing then all the pieces come together and if they don’t... an edgy name is probably the least of your problems

 

[SP3CT3R]

Finally, someone who is as detailed as myself!
I'm obsessed with names, they have so much meaning!
I even have a terrible not proven theory about how your 'middle'
name is a reflection of your true inner self.

I then, ironically, never source middle names for characters... ​

My middle name is Jack and I'm a jackass so maybe that holds some water.

 

[BackSet]

I want to tell you my middle name and make a pun out of it but at the same time I'd rather remain fully anonymous with my name.

 

[legalrehab]

Who cares about symbolism when you can have puns!

This, and names that are alliterations.
Oooh dont even get me started on pun alliteration names~!

 

[Crayons]

I get the "is this name realistic, why should it tell you anything about the person" thing, but something we have to remember is that these characters aren't real people. In fiction, authors choose character names in order to reflect something about the character (whereas parents irl don't), whether its in meaning/symbolism, the background and culture of the character (parents do do this one obvs), or just a name that sounds like it fits with their personality.

You get an instant vibe when you hear someone's name, it helps you to gain an instant impression of the character when you hear it. There's a reason why so many action heroes are called "Jack", and that is, because it's a manly, non-pretentious name, that is quick to say, and has hard consonants that make you think of go-getting, fast-moving, no-nonsense kind of person. There are no action heroes named Jeremy. (If you can find one that would be super awesome... XD )

If the princess is named "Princess Amelia" instead of "Princess Gert", it makes a big difference to how you think of her. Amelia suggests she might be feminine and graceful, Gert maybe has a warhammer and likes to get drunk. Of course you can also use these impressions to subvert reader expectations. It's a tool in the author's (and RPers) box.

Names conjure up an image that can be just as important as a written description. They do IRL too, regardless of the parents' intent. Freakonomics has a great chapter on nominative determinism (the idea that a name can influence your future) and there have been various studies about how employers pick candidates when the name is on the resume, compared to when the names are removed.

Also thumbs up for puns.

 

[BackSet]

This, and names that are alliterations.
Oooh dont even get me started on pun alliteration names~!

And this is basically an apt summarization of why I play the Ace Attorney games.

 

[CecilDMMasters]

Non functioning or I guess to say, non interacting characters. Especially if it's 1 x 1 and the only character the other person is using!

The basic idea of these character are fine if the person is planning on doing some character development, in a time frame that takes the other players fun into thought. Otherwise they are best played in a multi character each scenario as a secondary.

They are shy, and timid, and a precious sweet thing that has trouble opening up to people. Or make their own decision. Or defend themselves. Or interact enough to even have a conversation to get things started!

They are traumatized and can't really function with others without being triggered. Here comes a circle of the other person just playing out a comfort my character fetish. Or nothing happening as the person flat freezes up all the time.

The character is cool and emotionless! And completely boring and only speaks in three words at a time.

The character is some kind of construct, that randomly goes into a inanimate state. And knows nothing beyond the place it's lived it's whole life. And has the mentality of a child.

 

[Tove]

Non functioning or I guess to say, non interacting characters. Especially if it's 1 x 1 and the only character the other person is using!

The basic idea of these character are fine if the person is planning on doing some character development, in a time frame that takes the other players fun into thought. Otherwise they are best played in a multi character each scenario as a secondary.

They are shy, and timid, and a precious sweet thing that has trouble opening up to people. Or make their own decision. Or defend themselves. Or interact enough to even have a conversation to get things started!

They are traumatized and can't really function with others without being triggered. Here comes a circle of the other person just playing out a comfort my character fetish. Or nothing happening as the person flat freezes up all the time.

The character is cool and emotionless! And completely boring and only speaks in three words at a time.

The character is some kind of construct, that randomly goes into a inanimate state. And knows nothing beyond the place it's lived it's whole life. And has the mentality of a child.

Let's not forget shy and every other time blushes constantly.

 

[Spookkat]

He blushed
He blinked
He smirked
He breathed
He growled (lol?)
He stared
He stood still
He just existed, I guess


(These are all fine, but when I see them overused again and again it's a bit amusing tbh)

 

[ShifterOfShapes]

Who cares about symbolism when you can have puns!

I disagree!

How dare you make a joke out of our perfect symbols and characters?
-Versifyer, the Fifth Façade

 

[Jet]

Crayons

I don't have any issue with names that sound a certain way for characters who are a certain way. Amelia vs Gert is a great example so I'll use that. So you have Amelia the soft heart beautiful princess and Gert the warrior woman, awesome. But wouldn't it be contrived bullshit if Amelia meant "Beautiful princess" in Latin, and same thing if Gert meant "Warrior lady", that's cringe writing. Lazy as hell, slapping a literal label on a person for some shallow symbolism, literally the most shallow symbolism possible. "Oh this person is a genius, lets make their name the french word for smart" how deep and moving that is, reminds me of the art project that just sold for $130,000...... a banana duck-taped to a wall. I'm not saying you're advocating for this kind of middle school symbolism, just saying that this is my main complaint. What you & others have said in (what I think is) reply to my posts has been much more reasonable. My issue is only with the juvenile-writer tendency of alligning name meaning to temperament over and over again.

To be even more crystal clear about my issue it's only when writers do this consistently through their work. I have no problem with a couple name-meanings alligning with temperament here or there, but if it's done over and over again it's just a joke. Lazy as all hell too.

One thing I do disagree with; I don't see why fictional characters should have their naming done different. I get wanting the character to have a fitting name but even within that context. Take into account heritage, parents, background, ethnicity, put it in a blender and get a name back. If meaning is there it should be a lucky coincidence and not a consistent presence through all your characters. Having a name that doesn't fit isn't even a bad thing, but in my opinion names that fit or don't fit is almost a myth (other than names like Olga or giving a man the name Nancy) Spike Speigal is the only right name for Spike Speigal but that's because he was introduced as such. If he were introduced as Brad Lively he'd be the one and only Brad Lively with no other name suiting him.