Dice War of Despair (Exalted 3e) - OOC

[WlfSamurai]

I think you're thinking of a different Storyteller. I'm just here for the ride.

 

[Sherwood]

I think you're thinking of a different Storyteller. I'm just here for the ride.

My mistake. I'll try to do better next time.

 

[Raparth]

Hmmm, I suppose the keep could be put further east to be more in the Hundred Kingdoms zone since they've kinda shifted it. I just don't know where Ozric would set down his claim best.

If you want to compare it to 2nd edition, the Scavenger Lands are pretty similar (although certainly not everything is identical.
http://hd42.de/images/exalted/Creation_Map_v7.1c.jpg
You can see where the Hundred Kingdoms are a little more clearly than by my word choice. Although, personally, I think the western edge of it would probably be at least halfway between Great Forks and Vaneha.
It's always been the big, largely un-detailed eastern edge of the Scavenger Lands.

All of that said, it's your character and your castle! Put it wherever you want! Well, not on the Blessed Isle, please. ;-)

 

[WlfSamurai]

So, let’s recap.

We have Ozric with his keep still deciding where it will be (which I’m all for dropping it at the last possible moment so it’s conveniently close to other players).

We have Wukang in Nexus fighting in the streets.

We have Cleon near Ozric’s keep.

We have Hadria heading into the Hundred Kingdoms to secure trade and support.

And Sasha heading for Rathess(?)

We’re just missing Lumen, right?

Is that all correct?

 

[Raparth]

Hadria can be wherever the majority of the party is, for ease. Or otherwise bringing people together.

EDIT: You know, appropriately Eclipse places like balancing Ozric's checkbook.

 

[Crocodile]

So, let’s recap.

We have Ozric with his keep still deciding where it will be (which I’m all for dropping it at the last possible moment so it’s conveniently close to other players).

We have Wukang in Nexus fighting in the streets.

We have Cleon near Ozric’s keep.

We have Hadria heading into the Hundred Kingdoms to secure trade and support.

And Sasha heading for Rathess(?)

We’re just missing Lumen, right?

Is that all correct?

Actually I agree with this sentiment. I'm happy to become a hub with setting down stakes as a reliable core point if need be.

 

[Sherwood]

My small company of mercs won't stand a chance against a large elite force of the undead on my own. I'll have to spend some time building up my forces before going to the old capitol of Creation.

 

[Raparth]

My small company of mercs won't stand a chance against a large elite force of the undead on my own. I'll have to spend some time building up my forces before going to the old capitol of Creation.

Now, now, Mnemon, we're not ready to go to the top of the Imperial Mountain QUITE yet... ("Oh, THAT old capitol...")

 

[Greenstalker]

If people are gathering at one place Wukang will be there maybe send to ask for reinforcements from circle, Nexus is at the intersection of rivers after all which makes it a strategical point

 

[Sherwood]

Nexus or Looksky sound good to be a place to start out at.

 

[Raparth]

Where has the Guild moved its focus or headquarters to, if any of us know? (Hadria certainly wouldn't object to a nice big power vacuum in that regard...)
Are there any pathways/roads/routes that are safe enough for normal travel (i.e. trade or logistical caravans with something less than a full army)?

I'm mostly trying to figure out if there's still any contact that's possible from A to B to C, or if we're going to have to take back the land one mile a a time. Also, curious of how much things like Contacts, Influence, and Resources can actually be used (e.g. they aren't terribly great if you're under siege, or everyone else is under siege). I don't expect them to be fully functional, but it's a difference from "We need to break out of the current situation where we are." vs. "Everyone is under siege, so any ability to function must be manually restored." With this stuff in mind, and seeing what other players say, I'm planning on working on "To Do" list for Hadria and the Circle (along with cost/benefits of each, as much as I can). Regional triage, basically.

 

[Crocodile]

Alright, take two for the locating of Arcanum Keep. How does that look? More out into Hundred Kingdoms territory? Or should it be north across the river in those mountains? Just pondering was we hammer out stuff. Ozric likely will go where needed if not work on his schemes at the Keep. He does have a kingdom to build and grow.

 

[Greenstalker]

Where has the Guild moved its focus or headquarters to, if any of us know? (Hadria certainly wouldn't object to a nice big power vacuum in that regard...)
Are there any pathways/roads/routes that are safe enough for normal travel (i.e. trade or logistical caravans with something less than a full army)?

I'm mostly trying to figure out if there's still any contact that's possible from A to B to C, or if we're going to have to take back the land one mile a a time. Also, curious of how much things like Contacts, Influence, and Resources can actually be used (e.g. they aren't terribly great if you're under siege, or everyone else is under siege). I don't expect them to be fully functional, but it's a difference from "We need to break out of the current situation where we are." vs. "Everyone is under siege, so any ability to function must be manually restored." With this stuff in mind, and seeing what other players say, I'm planning on working on "To Do" list for Hadria and the Circle (along with cost/benefits of each, as much as I can). Regional triage, basically.

Resources is basically how well you can live under the present circumstances (since payment can be changes to basic trade like food for service) even under siege that usually represents how you fare contrast to others in the place a higher resource probably means you can survive longer than other people but it also makes you a target for more than usual in a siege. Influence is pretty much like resources but on a social level and unless here is some strong envy involved makes you less of a target than resources. Contacts really depends who you know, there might be black market dealers who are smuggling supplies into city under siege via secret routes so knowing them might be quiet useful, having contacts in the enemy army also works even if they are undead those who controls undead are mostly sentient and can be reasoned with to a degree.

On an unrelated note I drop my mentor to two dot and took iron stomach. I was still in the imression that mentor was like how it was in second edition and quiet frankly 3 dot of it seems much more powerful, also being born in slums of Nexus pretty much guarantee you have an iron stomach if you survive long enough

 

[Raparth]

Oh, I understand what the backgrounds, er, merits normally represent... I just also know that I might have a 5 dot Resources income per year, but in a starvation siege where rats are worth more than gold, I think it's a different situation. Resources represent income, and income (particularly of more than a couple dots) can be hard to move around, if you don't just want to liquidate everything (which is very costly, in the long run). Hadria's income is, largely, from trade (with the initial money coming from salt collection), which is heavily hit by wide-scale conflict (especially centers of trade being sieged). All systems that are based on, well, living people in a generally functioning society are going to have some sort of altered functionality, or at least rationale, during our War of Despair. I also want to know all these kinds of details (or at least starting points for them), because I think they make really good story hooks.

 

[Greenstalker]

Finally decided on my supernal.....ughh last 5 hours I was trying to digest whole athletics and stealth charm trees it was especially hard with athletics since most charms felt like doing same thing over and voer again as if someone copy pasted their descriptions and made only minute changes. In the end I decided to go with stealth for a couple of reasons. First other than strength buff all athletics seems to be doing seems to be moving around and while it is important for a close range combatant to get a battlefield control like i said before it seems most charms does same thing with minute differences which makes essence 1 and 2 charms sufficient for most of the times meanwhile stealth feels like granting actual benefits for higher essence other than 'get out of sight'. secondly stealth has many mute charms which is essential to not keep paying extra mote to keep anima from opening. Thirdly stealth augments ebon shadow more than athletics augments tiger style to be fair athletic augments both style to a degree but still stealth contribution to ebon shadow hands down better. Fourth is I feel like athletics charm tree too complex to pursue specific charms while stealths tree is not too simple it is not at the level of athletics from what I see.

 

[WlfSamurai]

So it sounds like everyone is probably looki

Oh, I understand what the backgrounds, er, merits normally represent... I just also know that I might have a 5 dot Resources income per year, but in a starvation siege where rats are worth more than gold, I think it's a different situation. Resources represent income, and income (particularly of more than a couple dots) can be hard to move around, if you don't just want to liquidate everything (which is very costly, in the long run). Hadria's income is, largely, from trade (with the initial money coming from salt collection), which is heavily hit by wide-scale conflict (especially centers of trade being sieged). All systems that are based on, well, living people in a generally functioning society are going to have some sort of altered functionality, or at least rationale, during our War of Despair. I also want to know all these kinds of details (or at least starting points for them), because I think they make really good story hooks.

Great question. I can totally understand. You're concerned that the situation shifting on a grand scale has changed the effectiveness of certain Merits or at least their usage. However, you've payed points for those Merits. It would be unfair to render them useless or even less effective. So we need to treat them not only as descriptive, but prescriptive. In other words, the fact that someone has Contacts 5, for example, means that their network of contacts is in a different area or is useful for different information. Or maybe there's an underground network of contacts keeping tabs on the Deathknights. Mechanically it's there so we need to justify it narratively. It's still just as effective. It just changes their narrative a bit.

Does that make sense?

 

[UnassumingBoxCat]

Ok, so here's what I worked out for Lumen:

His village was somewhere north of Great Forks, on the very edge of the Scavenger Lands. This village was one of the first to be destroyed by the undead armies, and it rendered Lumen homeless and destitute. He traveled to Great Forks in order to find a home for the rest of his village population, and found the city well guarded and holding fast against the undead. He was eventually drafted into Great Forks' defense forces, and he's served until this day, occasionally gaining permission to venture out and rescue people.

 

[Blackadder]

Do we have rough numbers on the various undead siege forces?

 

[Greenstalker]

okay I am coming with another question and this one seems to be some hot topic once book was published from what my google-fu could found so instead of having this come up during game and potentially slow it I decided to ask it now and see what ST thinks about it.

How rush and disengage works against each other? Sub question can rush be used in close combat (rush's description is very conflicting on this at first paragraph it says 'in short range' but right after it talks about target it specifically says 'a target at short range') I am fine with either answer just need to know proper one to describe my characters actions however since tiger style's first charm uses rush and its bonuses are hard to pass by.

From my understanding

• You can only use one movement action (move, rush, disengage) in a round
• You can use reflexive actions (includes move action) anytime this includes before or after your combat action of your turn or between your flurries
• For rush explicitly you can use reflexive move action before your rush action (i.e. you can move from medium range to short range)
• Rush can only target a foe at short range (or within short range which includes close range which is kinda important)
• After declaring rush action whenever your target moves one band of distance you move closer to traget one band of distance (so if you can only target someone at short range and they move to medium you follow them and keep short distance)
• Rush action keeps pace (this is where people most confused from what I see, What I understand from this that your target never leaves short distance from you so your target never gets to medium range when he moves since you keep pace)
• Rush action moves you only one range band it explicitly states that so if your opponent by some reason moves more than one band in single action he gets away. (there are many athletics charms does this especially at higher essence rating and probably some dodge charms as well)

Now assuming rush can used in close range (for records I don't think it can be but if it can it helps my character greatly)

• When you initiate disengage and succeed you move from close range to short range
• unlike rush disengage can't be used with move at all.
• Disengage is a combat action that needs to be succeed every foe in the close range
• after you disengage if you are followed by anyone you disengaged on their turn, you an move one range band again keeping your distance at short range

There are lots of scenarios how this plays out A is the one who uses rush and B is the one who uses disengage initiative order is play out as sentence follows for simplicity assume both rush and disengage attempts are successful.

1. A and B are at medium range. A'turn: A moves short range than initiates rush (this is most basic scenario and I don't think there is any problem how it plays out without charms being in effect)B's turn: B tries to move away as part of rush A follows still at short range. Next round A's turn: A gets close range with B and attacks (this also fits with Tiger style's crimson leaping cat technique's description since it says until end of your next turn)
2. A and B are at short range. A's turn: A initiates rush action than it plays out like in first example
3. A and B are at short range. B's turn: B moves to medium range than it plays out like in first example
   
4. A and B are at close range. A's turn: A uses rush action.B's turn: B disengages. A moves closer to B according to rush rule not letting him get out of close range still B's turn so second move of disengage does not trigger. next round A's turn A uses a move action which triggers B's disengage move action they are still at short range. A initiates rush rest plays out like in first example.
5. A and B are at close range. B's turn: B disengages and moves to short range. A's turn A moves closer to B initiates B's disengage second move B moves to short range than A initiates rush and rest plays out like in first example
6. Aand B are at close range. B's turn: B disengages and moves to short range. A's turn A initiates rush. Next round B's turn B moves to medium range which triggers A's rush move they are still at short distance B's disengage move does not trigger rest plays out as in 4th example.

Like I said I don't think disengage can be used in close range from target wording but it conflicts with firs sentences within short range so I decided to ask rather than make assumptions.

 

[Raparth]

Greenstalker Some good questions. If there's been a tizzy about it, I guess I have been lucky enough to miss it.

So, as you note, you can only reflexively move OR rush (with a possible reflex move right before it) OR disengage. Rush and Disengage are Combat Actions, not reflexive ones (like normal movement), so you would have to flurry (in order to do more than rush or disengage on that round).

This is important because, let's say for a moment that you could rush someone at close range, you'd either be giving up your attack (in which case, it's just a rounded wasted of you both running around), or flurrying it (which would make both the rush and attack much harder). It wouldn't help your friends, either, because if your target disengages, you rush to keep up, you and target are at close range, but any of your friends that were previously in close range with the target are not (as the target disengaged from them successfully). Rushing someone in close range would basically just be saying "I think you're going to disengage, and win, so I give up this round." Also, ignoring really weird luck that you can't plan for, the difference in the two rolls is just whether your target has better Dodge or Athletics (since you roll the same stuff). I don't really think, even if you could rush someone in close combat, it would make sense to do so. The next round, after target disengages, you move towards them, they get the free move away, then you use rush that turn (to keep them from moving from short-to-medium next turn); so you catch up with them again the next turn with your reflexive movement.

Even with a bonus like Tiger Style, if you COULD rush in close range, I don't think that beats the flurry cost to both the rush and attack. I could be wrong about the crunch. Fluff-wise, it doesn't seem to fit as much, since the tiger isn't leaping will it's already clawing (it's a first attack, not a repeat kind of thing).

Disengage is the only way to leave close range with hostiles, so it can ONLY be used at short range.

1. A and B are at medium range. A'turn: A moves short range than initiates rush (this is most basic scenario and I don't think there is any problem how it plays out without charms being in effect)B's turn: B tries to move away as part of rush A follows still at short range. Next round A's turn: A gets close range with B and attacks (this also fits with Tiger style's crimson leaping cat technique's description since it says until end of your next turn)
2. A and B are at short range. A's turn: A initiates rush action than it plays out like in first example
3. A and B are at short range. B's turn: B moves to medium range than it plays out like in first example
   
4. A and B are at close range. A's turn: A uses rush action.B's turn: B disengages. A moves closer to B according to rush rule not letting him get out of close range still B's turn so second move of disengage does not trigger. next round A's turn A uses a move action which triggers B's disengage move action they are still at short range. A initiates rush rest plays out like in first example.
5. A and B are at close range. B's turn: B disengages and moves to short range. A's turn A moves closer to B initiates B's disengage second move B moves to short range than A initiates rush and rest plays out like in first example
6. Aand B are at close range. B's turn: B disengages and moves to short range. A's turn A initiates rush. Next round B's turn B moves to medium range which triggers A's rush move they are still at short distance B's disengage move does not trigger rest plays out as in 4th example.

Running through your scenarios, with the same assumptions as you listed: (sorry if it's confusing, I wrote #4 first for some reason)

1. Essentially, yes. Rush means you're going to catch up (it just takes another round). B never got a chance to disengage, and B lost the athletics roll in A's rush.
2. A and B at short range. A uses their first move, then either attacks or wastes their time doing a rush, which will maintain the status quo for another round. (Except people who aren't A and B, as they are falling behind.)
3. Like #1, only A won a roll, so A wins.
4. A uses rush (with no movement), so doesn't get an attack. B disengages, A follows. B and A are within close range to each other, but short range to anyone they used to be in close range off (like A's friends that were also attacking B). It's A's turn now, not B's for a second time in a row, siince A's movement was a reflexive part of their successful rush: so A goes first and its just like it was last round (except for them both having moved away from anyone else that had been in close range). If A rushes again, we're going to get ANOTHER round of the same no-attack, just follow.
5. Same.
6. A and B are at close range. B's turn, B disengages and moves to short. A's turn, A tries to move closer, triggers the disengage, so they're still at short, but then A rushes. B's turn, B tries to move to medium, triggers the rush move, so they're still at short. A then gets to move to short as per normal. Status quo preserved!

A few notes: in these instances, we haven't considered what B is doing with their combat action (since A is wasting them all on rush). Luckily, in a real situation, they have lots of options to damage, slow down, or push back A. This is especially if they are into Archery (like a simple Force Without Fire).
Rushing in close range will accomplish nothing, just waste a round. And that's if somehow your Dex+Athletics beats their Dex+Athletics (rush) when you're losing your Dex+Athletics vs. their Dex+Dodge (disengage). You're probably just better attacking them.
If you are flurrying, both your attack and rush (and disengage contest) suffer heavily.

Long story short: I'm very inclined to say that you can't rush someone at close range, because the world in which you could is not only silly (from a common sense or narrative perspective), but mechanically will just waste your time. The assumptions of every rush and every disengage being successful is a really weird one, since they're contested rolls, so maybe it's just the fault of that assumption that weird, time-wasting stuff happens.

I really don't want to sit down and do repeated trials to test it out. >.<

 

[Greenstalker]

Even with a bonus like Tiger Style, if you COULD rush in close range, I don't think that beats the flurry cost to both the rush and attack. I could be wrong about the crunch. Fluff-wise, it doesn't seem to fit as much, since the tiger isn't leaping will it's already clawing (it's a first attack, not a repeat kind of thing).

You are right you need to flurry if you want to rush and attack same round. There is an athletic charm specifically removes (godspeed steps) this flurry penalty just for attacking after rushing and like I said tiger style's charm worded in a way that it was designed such as first round you use rush than second round you use attack. Rush's bonus is not that great either it steals one initiative from B but considering with disengages two initiative penalty it might worth to keep rushing and making other side disengaging to make them get into a lower initiative while keeping mines same or increasing (albeit very slowly but making otherside lose 3 initiative might worth it) The same charm as above also lets you get to close range as one of its effects so I honestly think normal rush is supposed to keep at short distance.

 

[Crocodile]

So are folks happy with Arcanum Keep location 2.0? Kind of a nice breathing space to rally forces against the dead along with river access.

Also whose wanting to start more linked with Ozric and his keep? Its sounding like there's already one. Just wanting to clarify.

 

[Sherwood]

I have a small fighting force that is in need of a patron, so I could be there for that.

 

[Blackadder]

So are folks happy with Arcanum Keep location 2.0? Kind of a nice breathing space to rally forces against the dead along with river access.

Also whose wanting to start more linked with Ozric and his keep? Its sounding like there's already one. Just wanting to clarify.

Sure, the location is fine.

 

[Crocodile]

I have a small fighting force that is in need of a patron, so I could be there for that.

Ozric is rolling in Resources 5 so he could afford to be patron to a pair of mercenary companies. I think its established Cleon has been helping his lands so far and training up his Voldsworn minions.

So I could see him being a patron for Sasha as well. He needs all the help he can get and admittedly he'd be interested in freeing up Nexus asap. He needs the Guild trade routes working to keep himself supplied in occult materials or he'll have to go raiding and hunting for them.