Viewpoint Unpopular roleplay opinions?

[Crayons]

Or alternatively just play in your comfort zone for ever. It's fine to do that. I mean, it is roleplay, no one can force you to play something you don't want to.

 

[Peryton]

Or the third option: treating your character as a person and not a cliche.

Agreed, but this also requires nuance and also a lot of "take a hard look at yourself and your personal beliefs" moments if you want to do it well, which I believe makes newer writers hesitate. People generally want to stay in their safety net until they get more confidence with writing a variety of different characters.

Edit: I didn't read your last replies, and it looks like you already mentioned this, so-- Agreed?

 

[Daisie]

I mean.... I don't think it's as much about youth as it is about experience. I grew up in a very multicultural community, so I always had friends from all different races and cultures, but I know in some places communities are more homogenous so you might not know anyone (or even have met anyone) from outside your own background.

Even then there is such a thing as the Internet. If you're thinking of writing about a different race or culture - do some research. Maybe watch movies or read books based in that culture and created by people of that culture. Read the blog Writing With Color.

If the worst comes to the worst and you can't help writing cliches to start off with then do it with the spirit that you're happy to learn as go and get more experience, maybe meet people who can help you. You could practice by starting with a culture from a historical period so people are less likely to know how to correct you. But ultimately people are people, we have more in common than not at the end of the day.

Agreed, but this also requires nuance and also a lot of "take a hard look at yourself and your personal beliefs" moments if you want to do it well, which I believe makes newer writers hesitate. People generally want to stay in their safety net until they get more confidence with writing a variety of different characters.

Edit: I didn't read your last replies, and it looks like you already mentioned this, so-- Agreed?

Yeah, maybe it's not about youth specifically? But I was more talking about what y'all seem to be talking about - the inexperienced writers. Most of them don't necessarily want to become super professional or anything, or aren't even thinking about it at the time. Everyone starts somewhere, and I don't think a lot of people do so with vast writing improvement in mind for their future, which is totally fair. They just wanna have a good time, and I think if people need an escape, then that aspect of their life isn't one they should have to be pushed out of their comfort zone with, ya know?

Some people may be more experienced than others, some people even take it professionally, but at the end of the day, improvement shouldn't be required to have fun. That, we can agree on.

Anywho, didn't mean to derail. Hugs for all, and remember to stay respectful!

 

[nerdy tangents]

Many younger writers I know are afraid to write races/sexualities/gender that is not their own because they feel it would not be very well representative of said minorities. What is worse? Choosing to write a white, cis-gendered character; or writing a cliched, offensive depiction of a marginalized minority?

I mean cliches exist for white cis-gendered people too. (*cough* Not Like Other Girls*cough* Jock with the Heart of Gold*cough*)

The difference is there is rarely only ONE white cis-gendered character. And the white cis-gendered characters are rarely all the SAME cliche.

Like you are rarely going to get a roleplay where literally every girl is “Not Like Other Girls” and all the boys are “Jocks with the Heart of Gold”.

And in the case that does exist everyone agrees it’s bad character dynamics because you can’t literally just have multiple versions of two character types. It’s boring and unrealistic.

It’s the same thing with diverse characters. Representation isn’t about avoiding cliches (I mean maybe don’t make your gay characters pedophiles or your black/brown characters rapists) but it’s about essentially only writing one cliche for every diverse character in the series.

Especially if “every diverse character” can be written “the one character I created”.

The key is to basically treat your diverse characters the same as your white characters. Most white characters are cliches themselves and people don’t really care. As long as they aren’t the same cliche and you aren’t writing problematic stuff (see above “all black/brown characters are racists, all gay characters are pedophiles) then your fine.

Just try to write people of different backgrounds, personalities, and yes even cliched archetypes. Then make them whatever color/gender/etc. you want.

Just make sure if you are using negative cliches you add positive cliches to counter act them. (Again this goes regardless of characters make up).

 

[MochiMazacha]

I think the length of response doesn't matter - what is more important is to give the person you're responding to, something to respond back with. I find myself more stuck in Roleplays when I'm giving it my all, and getting nothing in addition in return. Make sense?

 

[Lorsh]

fave thing to write is probably gore lol

 

[Jannah]

It would be nice to see more POC characters. Maybe I just don't look around enough but the overwhelming majority of characters that people like to play seem to be white and when my character is a different race some people voice discomfort and it makes me very sad to see. I understand being uncomfortable with pushing a stereotype, and focusing on the characters race too much but if just the idea of a character being a different race makes you uncomfortable that's kind of sad. Normally if I do see another person playing as a person of color they do it to fetishize them in a really weird way.
I've said this before a very long time ago and people were pretty hostile, and I'd like to be able to say something about it without people jumping down my throat.

I play a lot of pretty diverse characters myself. However, they have to fit the setting I'm playing in. I'm not just going to shoehorn them in for the sake of diversity. For example, if I'm in a RP that is set in a Medieval European court then it would make sense for most of the characters to be white. In fantasy or other fictional settings, though, then yea go wild. I do love learning about other cultures so will actually jump on the opportunity to play characters from diverse backgrounds. I have an interest in Arab/Middle Eastern culture so have actually been kind of craving a RP, preferably fantasy, based on it.

 

[Jannah]

fave thing to write is probably gore lol

I'm not against writing gore, but if it's excessive then it can become almost cheesy. However, if I'm writing a RP about soldiers on the battlefield or something then I am going to expect there to be gore since war is bloody business. In other words, it needs to fit the setting/plot.

 

[Jannah]

Hard agree my friend.

I think in American media in general PoC are underrepresented. The underrepresentation in mainstream media is probably what drives the lack of rep in RP as well. It frustrates me when people's response is: "Well the story doesn't NEED a PoC."
I have come to respond to this with: "Well how does a white character add to the narrative?"
Because the idea that you can't have a PoC unless the entire story has race central to the plot is... Problematic.

See, I don't mind people not playing PoC, let me put this out there. If people say they play white characters because that's what they like, more power to them. I just don't like the excuse I mentioned above because it kind of just perpetuates problematic thinking.

POC are under-represented, but at the same time I don't want them shoehorned into stories simply for the sake of diversity. Oftentimes when they're present they're either flat one-dimensional characters or simply do not fit the setting(what I mean by this is, say, a black queen in Medieval Europe). I wish writers would realize that these characters can be written without feeling forced or being killed off quickly. Look at nearly any horror movie. It seems to usually be the black guy kills off first. So much so that it has become a running joke that the "black guy dies first".

 

[Gowi]

POC are under-represented, but at the same time I don't want them shoehorned into stories simply for the sake of diversity.

Representation =/= Tokenization. I think most marginalized/minority authors try to understand this, but it is easier said than done.

 

[Jannah]

Representation =/= Tokenization. I think most marginalized/minority authors try to understand this, but it is easier said than done.

Some, yes, but unfortunately others don't. I'll go back to my example about the black guy always dying first in horror movies.

 

[Yolkfolk]

Yeah I hate tokenism and fetishization. When I say we could do with more POC characters i don't mean random POC placed in few select plot lines where it doesn't make sense. Because let's face it, in most story lines a character being literally any other race but white seems perfectly fine.

 

[Yolkfolk]

POC recommending that there be non white characters in some stories is not the cause for tokenism and if you are white tokenism does not impact you.

 

[Yolkfolk]

However, if tokenism/poorly portrayed POC bothers you and then instead of weaponizing it against POC and using it as an argument to just not include non white people weaponize it against the people who portray non white people poorly.

 

[nerdy tangents]

So I run into this more with LGBTQ+ characters than POC, but I think the dissonance is the same. I remember someone called it something like “death of imagination” once and I think that’s part of it.

Because a lot of times I don’t think it’s bigotry or racism or homophobia, implicit or overt.

I think it’s actually sadder than that. I think there are people who are truly incapable of imagining a fictional world that doesn’t center whiteness or heteronormativity.

Like their mind cannot stretch that far to include diverse people.

And it’s both incredibly frustrating (as a very diverse role player) and also incredibly sad.

Because they are missing out on so many wonderful stories by just being stuck in a little box in their mind.

 

[Crayons]

I play a lot of pretty diverse characters myself. However, they have to fit the setting I'm playing in. I'm not just going to shoehorn them in for the sake of diversity. For example, if I'm in a RP that is set in a Medieval European court then it would make sense for most of the characters to be white. In fantasy or other fictional settings, though, then yea go wild. I do love learning about other cultures so will actually jump on the opportunity to play characters from diverse backgrounds. I have an interest in Arab/Middle Eastern culture so have actually been kind of craving a RP, preferably fantasy, based on it.

Well.... tbf there were a significant number of POC in medieval Europe. For a start Spain was ruled by the moors (from North Africa) for a super long time. There was a lot of travel and trade between European countries and the middle east and Africa, and Shakespeare even wrote a play about a black guy.

You can also see evidence of this by looking at art from the period that often features black or middle eastern characters. Courts, particularly, would have some diversity because there would be ambassadors and representatives from other countries.

Yeah in Northern Europe particularly most of them would be white. But it definitely wasn't a racially homogenous society in medieval and renaissance Europe.

For those interested medievalpoc.tumblr.com is a good resource.

 

[Lorsh]

Those interested medievalpoc.tumblr.com is a good resource.

Very nice, a lot of the examples there are late medieval/renaissance, but I was surprised to read about a North African Berber that ended up moving to Anglo-Saxon England to become an abbot, even being offered an archbishopric.

http://warfare.cf/WRG/Feudal-85-88-Negro_Soldiers.htm?i=1

There's a resource on all kinds of soldiers from the middle ages, mainly from Europe, but also Africa and the Middle East. Plenty of non-European influences in medieval Europe. Apparently, early plate armor may have originated from lamellar, which spread to Europe when the Mongols invaded Germany, who adopted it into the coat-of-plates.

On another note though, I'm not sure about non-binary/transgender people being around much in medieval Europe; I did get into a flamewar about it awhile ago and got accused of creating a "cis space". Still curious if there's any resources about it; I'm not going around trying to restrict anybody's characters for the lols, if there's a way they could be explained, I'm all for it. I just don't see society at the time being particularly tolerant.

 

[Syntra]

Very nice, a lot of the examples there are late medieval/renaissance, but I was surprised to read about a North African Berber that ended up moving to Anglo-Saxon England to become an abbot, even being offered an archbishopric.

http://warfare.cf/WRG/Feudal-85-88-Negro_Soldiers.htm?i=1

There's a resource on all kinds of soldiers from the middle ages, mainly from Europe, but alsobAfrica and the Middle East. Apparently, early plate armor may have originated from lamellar, which spread to Europe when the Mongols invaded Germany, who adopted it into the coat-of-plates.

On another note though, I'm not sure about non-binary/transgender people being around much in medieval Europe; I did get into a flamewar about it awhile ago and got accused of creating a "cis space". Still curious if there's any resources about it; I'm not going around trying to restrict anybody's characters for the lols, if there's a way they could be explained, I'm all for it. I just don't see society at the time being particularly tolerant.

The society not being tolerant doesn't really matter-- just like gay people, trans people have always existed. They just probably didn't have the language to describe their experience and, yes, had to remain closeted.

 

[Yolkfolk]

The society not being tolerant doesn't really matter-- just like gay people, trans people have always existed. They just probably didn't have the language to describe their experience and, yes, had to remain closeted.

There's always been words for trans and intersex people. Hijras, two spirit, gala priests, Kathoeys, Khanith, I believe there are even more but I think it's pretty interesting.

 

[AnnJam]

Posts over 1k words are too long. Posts under 100 words are too short. 400-600 words is perfect.

 

[Syntra]

There's always been words for trans and intersex people. Hijras, two spirit, gala priests, Kathoeys, Khanith, I believe there are even more but I think it's pretty interesting.

Oh yeah, I know about those I was referring to Europe specifically, since that was what the original ask was about. I am Eastern European and tbh, I don't know of any specific terms that were used for trans people here. I'm not saying the words didn't exist, but the Church was pretty diligent about burning books/texts they didn't like and censoring history, sooo... yeah, the access to information isn't great.

 

[Yolkfolk]

Oh yeah, I know about those I was referring to Europe specifically, since that was what the original ask was about. I am Eastern European and tbh, I don't know of any specific terms that were used for trans people here. I'm not saying the words didn't exist, but the Church was pretty diligent about burning books/texts they didn't like and censoring history, sooo... yeah, the access to information isn't great.

I get that. I was in no way critiquing you lol. I just find the topic to be interesting.

 

[Daisie]

Hey guys! Awesome convo (that I even participated in down the line lol), but I do wanna try and steer this more on topic. Feel free to take it elsewhere though, I think it's a worthwhile conversation, especially with everyone remaining so cordial.

 

[Crayons]

Very nice, a lot of the examples there are late medieval/renaissance, but I was surprised to read about a North African Berber that ended up moving to Anglo-Saxon England to become an abbot, even being offered an archbishopric.

http://warfare.cf/WRG/Feudal-85-88-Negro_Soldiers.htm?i=1

There's a resource on all kinds of soldiers from the middle ages, mainly from Europe, but also Africa and the Middle East. Plenty of non-European influences in medieval Europe. Apparently, early plate armor may have originated from lamellar, which spread to Europe when the Mongols invaded Germany, who adopted it into the coat-of-plates.

On another note though, I'm not sure about non-binary/transgender people being around much in medieval Europe; I did get into a flamewar about it awhile ago and got accused of creating a "cis space". Still curious if there's any resources about it; I'm not going around trying to restrict anybody's characters for the lols, if there's a way they could be explained, I'm all for it. I just don't see society at the time being particularly tolerant.

Yeah that abbot dude was rad! Yeah the blog spans a pretty long period but there are plenty of examples from the medieval times.

I think transgender people were around ... but people didn't necessarily know or have a word for it. There was a case in Victorian times of a woman who "dressed" as a man and became a doctor (the name was James Barrie ... I remembered lol) and lived as a man for her whole life. Like sure, dressed as a man, but she could have been transgender or just wanted an available means to become a doctor. I guess we won't know.

As for non-binary - there wasn't even really a term for this until like ten years ago so most people probably just lived as whatever gender they were assigned and thought "I don't really feel comfortable with this" but had no way of expressing it. Maybe they gravitated more towards communities where gender wasn't so important like monasteries and convents. I'd certainly like to hear if people have more info on NBs in past times in Europe.

Sorry Daisie did not see your post! Anyone feel free to PM me if you do have info on trans/NB in old timey Europe.

 

[AnnJam]

Asking people to fill in and PM you a form as a means of submitting a 1/1 RP request should be more common place. I know people whinge about how impersonal it is, but they also whinge about people sending "hey I wanna RP" PMs too. Anyway I think forms are a good idea saving you and the other person a lot time, while giving you exactly what you want in terms of info from that person.