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[Mesenterium]

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[Murdergurl]

First question!

Steampunk or cyberpunk?

Steampunk.
Because cyberpunk is basically just open sci-fi and it doesn't really have any true differentiation or definition from its broader category. Steampunk on the other hand is very much its own sub-genre. Now if you were to have said Dieselpunk or Atompunk in place of cyberpunk, those sub-genres would have more definition. But Cyberpunk is just regular ol' sci-fi.

 

[Kazami42]

• You can't choose "neither" nor "both".

First question!

Steampunk or cyberpunk?

"Both."
"Neither."

But I'mma be real with ya fam, I'm not into either much, despite liking them. This is due to their preferred natural settings, as well as people choosing to limit the tech to those settings in particular even in fantasy games, RPs, and other media. Steampunk tends to gravitate towards the steam/industrial era, and often found in use in time-frames from 1800 - 1906, with some RPs long lived abruptly ending after we make it to 1907. I have similar problems with cyberpunk. It tends to gravitate towards a timeline more akin to the years in Halo or dead space. And sometimes the super fancy smancy tech is either outdated or we already possess in modern day and near making it irrelevant. So the only thing going for it is physical augmentations, their limits, and weaponry. All of which, with either some time or knowledge, can be remade in even the 1800s at least with steampunk.

Now I come from a community I started off with before this and the previous, and what we used to do when bored was make an engineering thread. This was a random misc thread whereupon you used detail to invent up or create random and/or unique forms of technology, then if you wanted to, you copied them off the thread and would reuse them in a or multiple other different RPs. And because of this, I know the potential of several genres, and I've made a few items one could classify as Tesla-Punk for settings in 1976. Though of course some things are better off for their own settings, but even then elements can be carried over and make what is known as punk mixing or genre mixing. Types that work effectively for most time-frames from 1700 - 1966 is Dieselpunk, steampunk, and cyberpunk with the latter to varying extents. Now the thing is, if you're stuck in like the Renaissance, Leonardo made up some pretty intriguing concepts such as a wheeled tank. Earlier than that, we see things like the "machine gun" crossbow, hwatcha[?] etc. Logically speaking, and the setting wasn't limited to history, you could go as far as inventing the Gatling gun extremely early. Your only limit is gunpowder, but if magic is involved, there's a suitable combustible substance, or a IC alternative to powders, then there. Alternatively, an arrow Gatling gun is possible. However not everyone views these genres under categorical lensing.

For example of me, I view say, steampunk as this rather than a timeline restricted element due to focusing on technological and resource potential:
the main albeit sometimes not only resource for vehicular power is steam, utilizing coal or any similar resource.
the asthetic is piping, exhaust steam, and over complexity for resource efficiency which is the basis of testing steam to work with even mech designs. This achieved through a series of steam redirectors by the pipes connecting and cycling through, yet with a loss via the amount exhausted to prevent pipe melting through heat conducted by overpressure build up.
The bootup time for the boilers is like 7 33 seconds. So even fast vehicles are sitting ducks, and acceleration isn't much better.
Augmented people tend to show an immense amount of miniaturization capability, and invented up an efficient conduit to get steam working with the augments in the first place. Note how most critical components don't contact the organic elements of the subject.
It is often used to bring rudimentary constructs to life in settings akin to magic but with substituting it for steam. IE Golems here are extremely sophisticated heavily geared and piped, reinforced Terminator-styled pistoned, yet usually much taller robots.
The main associations are robots, impressively aesthetic vehicles, and new concepts such as heat/steam bombs.
Technologically speaking for timelines, variants of steam power existed in the setting all the way up to the 50s. The main fundamentals of boilers practically remained unchanged. And nuclear subs for example is akin to it but with extra parts and swapping the resources out.
Unfortunately, it's mixings only work out in terms of full genre, such as with Tesla-Punk complimenting it. Whereupon the biggest themes being electrical power, and electricity weaponry such as Tesla coils. Concepts such as cyberpunk are already naturally built into it, but beyond the norm like bodiky augmenting it breaks down.

Cyberpunk is basically the opposite.
Resources isn't the biggest priority. Augmenting, sometimes space, and bodily weaponry is.
The asthetic is sleek lining and bright flashy components, otherwise it's just like a brighter modern setting.
We get into fantastical concepts done by even nanotechnology to achieve things such as body adaptivity such as immediate facial reconstruction, and using people as processors and batteries.
If coupled with full genres, it works only best with other far off types and Dieselpunk.
Cyberpunk is basically just Alita battle angel, dead space, etc. If we couple things like VR into it, it gets beaten by modernity unless you go out of your way to make a new and better tech version we don't already have or under development.
there's variants/different types of cyberpunk, but overall ability of setting diversity is low if it doesn't involve space.

I don't play, use, or etc one or the other. If I do, it's usually mixed with another punk genre and that one is the focus rather than either of these two. I only watch or play games with these elements if whomever I watch even has one. But since I can't say neither, then I'm forced to go with ya boi deus ex machina mankind divided. HOWEVER, there was no rule stating an interjection nor swapping. Therefore, I present what I actually care for most:

Dieselpunk.
DP's focuses are only upon an efficient resource or resources, as well as upgrading/enhancing technology especially that which already exists. So for newcomers the latter element enables easier introduction and creativity. Technological enhancement focus tends to gravitate towards modern concepts. Essentially at the deepest level, you can have A7Vs and FT-17s in 1913 for example with characteristics of an Abrams tank.

One variant of DP is WWII setting but with technology practically of the Vietnam era, and can further. If there was even remotely a idea not feasible at the time or was outright impossible from below the 1800s up to now, you can make it. This The setting isn't fixed, but tends to be gravitated towards either world war.

Due to WWI being a new industrial element unaccounted for, and was the birther of new concepts of warfare such as the tank via reconfiguring farming tractors, it is utilized pretty much always as a ground zero for the invention of new technologies such as walkers, both automated and manual. This is helped further by our real world history, with developments on both Western and eastern fronts to deal with, if going for WWI, a durable breaching and siege device on the east, and west was solely developing new ways to handle the terrain and enemy defenses beyond the trenches. IRL we even got freaky ideas such as an actual ironclad-wannabe landship, a railroad tracks laying motor cart that's essentially better described as a hamster in it's wheel, and the tsar tank. With DP, since at least prototypes were created of these things, they evolve into more technologically sophisticated designs. Some however, were given legs and their hulls untouched or flipped vertical. Therefore in some universes, the great war is considered the only world war. Sometimes, both wars are merged together I the same timeframe, and the results are spectacular. One year you could be stuck in a trench on the west, the next you're engaging tanks, not even a month later chemical weaponry, a three month grace period, then you're suddenly swarmed by battleships 215 meters long with legs, supported by mark 4s, and a smaller standard mech battalion equipped with 155mm arms, chemical weapons systems, mortars, and flamethrowers. If you survive all that or even capture some for the ultimate final battle Japanese style, you have to endure direwolves the size of bears, bears the size of blimps, and an entire army clad in steel suits from helmet to toe with intimidating filtered vocoder gasmasks, supported by a Frontline contingent of fuckin' robots. And if advanced enough or in WWII, these robots are swapped out for androids.

Timeline is bizarrely flexible. It can go from at least 1907 all the way up to the future.

There is no dedicated asthetic of DP, just an emphasis upon cold hard steel. A variant of this is Valkyria Chronicles, whereupon vehicles are using more efficient engines with new sophisticated dangerous resources, where hulking behemoths can actually run, is space efficient for their engines, and existing vehicles can have add-ons like thick side skirts and still run at the same speed or greater than the real life equivalent.

We get really second renaissancy up in this ditch, nukes and mini nuclear warheads can become a sudden commonality. This further makes warfare a biblical apocalypse, and the sudden rush and need, and national production ensures no international regulation will be in effect before the damage is done. For atomic warheads were an unforeseen consequence none of the time could account for. [Yet apparently, somebody wanted to stop the concepts of attaching an artillery piece to a balloon. Then evolved into including zeppelins and blimps.] Sometimes when extremes like this get involved in DP stories, there's nobody left unconquered or unallied left except overseas. In others, the war never ends. In more tamed ones, we get settings like Leviathan.

Resource based unique weaponry such as shard gas, basically spawns a hot cloud like chlorine, that originates from a crystal and within it flies thousands - millions of sharp pieces that rip apart the subject. However eventually burns out the shards to liquid, while the cloud lingers if without wind for awhile longer. Stuff like this is why full body suits exists dominating the setting. Imagine a few dozen of those being blown into your defenses. It also helps resolve the undead problem if it exists in the particular setting, but doesn't kill or disable all types of them, and is less effective the longer it is spawned up in getting them deeply damaged externally. Though outside of magical involved settings, the corpses are too old for revival like they just drowned and had CPR done to em, so those kinds and mortally wounded are technologically augmented. This weapon can damage external components, break prosthetics like jamming them, but won't kill them. Seeing a horde of that appear out of the gas and fog is equally as morale destroying. Especially if it's the captured body of your allies.

T E C H N O L O G I C A L N E C R O M A N C Y

Basically every goddamned DP RP involves a flying hover train like it's straight out of mutant chronicles, a mech, some sort of robot, and climaxes with nuclear Armageddon, or it's just constant operation overlord+market garden but with robots, spacesuits, mechs, and it's basically world wars reenactment of the animatrix.

It's the greatest playground known to mankind, and due to it's focus being resources and efficiency - enhancement, it can be merged with anything. Everything described above beyond that isn't it's focus or exactly tied to it besides that which exists for other sub genres anyway. Effectively you could be playing a steampunk game or doing a steampunk RP, and it features heavy dieselpunking due to a dedicated steam resource, or it covers up some of the vehicle and automation's exposed vitals in heavy steel plating, better acceleration from boot up, greater weight tolerance, and a faster ramp up time. That's all it is when you don't make up your own universe/setting for it.

 

[Wrenning Bird]

First question!

Steampunk or cyberpunk?

I enjoy steampunk more.
I used to make so many OCs that are steampunk so it hold a special place in my heart. No real amazing, spectacular reason though.

 

[Murdergurl]

I hafta agree with Kazami42 in that cyberpunk isn't even that fantastical, mostly because we have advanced so much in technology that the fiction part isn't even that much of a stretch. as an avid fan of sci-fi, I have to admit that it is increasingly difficult to write settings in that genre without being undermined by tech that already is in play (especially because I don't understand computer stuff for shit).

 

[Murdergurl]

So I looked it up, and cyberpunk is defined as: "A genre of science fiction set in a lawless subculture of an oppressive society dominated by computer technology."
But this to me is just dystopian science fiction. Lots of authors in science fiction wrote on this notion. They lived and died before "cyberpunk" was ever a thing. Asimov, Clarke, Orwell, and Huxley to name a few. This is why I feel that cyberpunk is an illegitimate sub-genre.

I dislike that a lot of people automatically place steampunk in a Victorian aesthetic. You can drop it into a slew of settings and even non-linear setting to our own timeline. I've seen steampunk in a medieval fantasy theme many times. You could also use it in a post-apocalyptic setting, with steam power as the reemerging powerplant to a survivalist colony. My point is, that steampunk does not always equate to corsets, top hats and monacles. In fact, I tend to avoid that aesthetic if I do participate in a steampunk RP. I'm really not fond of that particular "look".

Also... I've heard of it a couple times before, but have not looked it up: What is biopunk? M Mesenterium

 

[Kazami42]

So I looked it up, and cyberpunk is defined as: "A genre of science fiction set in a lawless subculture of an oppressive society dominated by computer technology."
But this to me is just dystopian science fiction. Lots of authors in science fiction wrote on this notion. They lived and died before "cyberpunk" was ever a thing. Asimov, Clarke, Orwell, and Huxley to name a few. This is why I feel that cyberpunk is an illegitimate sub-genre.

I dislike that a lot of people automatically place steampunk in a Victorian aesthetic. You can drop it into a slew of settings and even non-linear setting to our own timeline. I've seen steampunk in a medieval fantasy theme many times. You could also use it in a post-apocalyptic setting, with steam power as the reemerging powerplant to a survivalist colony. My point is, that steampunk does not always equate to corsets, top hats and monacles. In fact, I tend to avoid that aesthetic if I participate in a steampunk RP. I'm really not fond of that particular "look".

Also... I've heard of it a couple times before, but have not looked it up: What is biopunk? M Mesenterium

Heavily augmenting species biology.

Imagine a bear.
Now you take that bear and conduct biological/genetic engineering to make it the size of a whale.
Now take your whale bear imagine their skin is as thick as armoured cruisers.
Now strap a box to the top of it like a war elephant, but attach a 105mm artillery piece to it.

That's biopunk in a nutshell.
Human augmentation but Bioshock-like rather than using mechanical/cybernetic parts.

 

[Murdergurl]

dammit. I wish we had a "laugh" emoji, instead of just the like and love

 

[Wrenning Bird]

dammit. I wish we had a "laugh" emoji, instead of just the like and love

Now you have a like and love, love.

 

[Idea]

First question!

Steampunk or cyberpunk?

I wanted to answer "neither", but I guess I'll go with "cyberpunk".

I don't really like "punk" genres very much, as they are strongly tied to an aesthetic and particular themes. It's hard to put to words exactly, but to me it's a similar reason why I don't like to play historical roleplays, if the genre itself comes charged with expectations that I don't feel I understand or could live up to, I try to avoid it. It's needless drama and arguments waiting for me, and no guarantees of fun, neither for myself who doesn't understand them enough to kno whether I could enjoy a roleplay in those genres, nor for my partner who may be in for a disappointment in my inability to work within their expectations of what the genre is like.

That being said, between the two at least cyberpunk tends to pull on more of a science fiction setting instead of dragging along the actual historical genre as well...

 

[Wrenning Bird]

Some of my most significant OCs come from a "steampunk" setting (more like general historical XIXth century sci-fi, so to speak), so I totally get you! There are two in particular that are very dear to me. I like all my OCs, but I guess that there are some that I am more interested in, probably due to the investment I put into them.
Do you guys have any favourite characters (original or not) from a steampunk and/or a cyberpunk setting?

Yeah. I had a entire family of adopted disabled steampunk OCs

 

[Idea]

This is something that I also understand very well. I had a similar opinion regarding space operas in the past, for example. Star Wars was something that I wasn't that interested in, due to the whole aesthetics associated with it. However, after watching it, it opened me the doors to other space operas. Still, this is something that doesn't happen with every single genre, and different people might feel different about different genres. For example, I tried to do the same with slice-of-life and no matter how many slice-of-life animes I watch, I don't seem to get around the whole genre. The themes and the aesthetic aren't really my thing. Guess it is a very personal preference too.

Yep. Come to think of it, it also goes the other way around. The same way that I dislike my impression of those genre's aesthetics (and even more despise such an aesthetic being hung over me), I have a strong preference for a very anime-esque aesthetic, both image-wise and story-wise, so I tend to search for partners who are interested in such as well.

That said, I do think I would be a lot more open to these genres if I felt like there was more of a place for me. I've done cyberpunk roleplays but not steampunk roleplays, but going by the people invested in that kind of story, there is a very narrow set of expectations when it comes to them. More than a problem of disliking, the problem I have is that it's suffocating to work on any kind of environment where you feel you're always a step away from breaking an unwritten rule.

I think if I ever do try it, it will be in similar circumstances to how I tried the western genre. It's not really a genre I'm into, but with a really really good enough partner otherwise willing to compromise I am willing to make concessions, and to take more experimental leaps of faith.

Yes, I think that, in some way, the research and the attention you need to do when working with steampunk is more extensive than the one you have with cyberpunk, for example. Because with cyberpunk you just need to push reality to a limit, you just need to apply technology to an extreme, and technology nowadays is something we are very familiarised with. With steampunk is different: on top of having to, at least, have in mind some of the mechanics and limitations of steam-powered technology, you also need to take into consideration historical details, which adds to the overall information you need to be aware of. And sometimes you get roleplayers that play the "historian" role, and, even knowing that steampunk is fiction if you do not pay attention to some unimportant historical detail they'll be at your throat. Historical accuracy is very important to me, even in fictional history, but still, there are small details that can be dropped, for the sake of the plot, in my opinion. Knowing how to dose these things is important. Overall, I love steampunk, because, indeed, I need to do this extensive research, and researching is something that I love to do when roleplaying, even more when it comes to history and science. Still, these themes and aesthetic aren't everybody's cup of tea!

Yep, exactly. Personally, things like historical accuracy and general realism are both great things and poisons. They are great because they make the story more grounded, and because they can bring twists you could never pull otherwise. For example the anime Doctor Stone is very strongly oriented for scientific accuracy (still anime, but there is a real effort to look into things and detail them properly) and so it can afford to make twists based on real world scientific knowledge, without needing to set them up. They are already set up by being in the sphere of general knowledge after all, so the step of foreshadowing can be removed without loss of impact.

At the same time though, the realism is a poison as well, because the more of it is present, the more people blur that line between fiction and reality. The more people expect you to match reality or to have knowledge you could only know if you were interested in their specific field. It's an expectation that is (ironically enough) unrealistic, unfair and comes at the expense of the story not in its favor. It creates a toxic environment and puts a weight in the story one is writing for fun which frankly isn't warranted, that of in any way speaking for your views or the real world.

 

[Redfork2000]

First question!

Steampunk or cyberpunk?

Oh my, I feel kind of dumb now... so they aren't synonyms?

 

[Wrenning Bird]

This is something that I also understand very well. I had a similar opinion regarding space operas in the past, for example. Star Wars was something that I wasn't that interested in, due to the whole aesthetics associated with it. However, after watching it, it opened me the doors to other space operas. Still, this is something that doesn't happen with every single genre, and different people might feel different about different genres. For example, I tried to do the same with slice-of-life and no matter how many slice-of-life animes I watch, I don't seem to get around the whole genre. The themes and the aesthetic aren't really my thing. Guess it is a very personal preference too.

Precisely, and honestly, if you are definitely not interested nor invested in it, it really isn't worth agreeing on roleplaying such genre, because you won't be happy and chances are your roleplay partner won't be happy as well, because if one of the parts has no motivation in writing something, chances are the other one will lose interest quickly too. Doing something that we don't like as a hobby is definitely demotivating, and definitely not worth it. Roleplaying must be fun, it shouldn't feel boring nor like it is an obligation, nor like we must be fine with every single genre.

Yes, I think that, in some way, the research and the attention you need to do when working with steampunk is more extensive than the one you have with cyberpunk, for example. Because with cyberpunk you just need to push reality to a limit, you just need to apply technology to an extreme, and technology nowadays is something we are very familiarised with. With steampunk is different: on top of having to, at least, have in mind some of the mechanics and limitations of steam-powered technology, you also need to take into consideration historical details, which adds to the overall information you need to be aware of. And sometimes you get roleplayers that play the "historian" role, and, even knowing that steampunk is fiction if you do not pay attention to some unimportant historical detail they'll be at your throat. Historical accuracy is very important to me, even in fictional history, but still, there are small details that can be dropped, for the sake of the plot, in my opinion. Knowing how to dose these things is important. Overall, I love steampunk, because, indeed, I need to do this extensive research, and researching is something that I love to do when roleplaying, even more when it comes to history and science. Still, these themes and aesthetic aren't everybody's cup of tea!

That's interesting. Are they living in an orphanage together? Or were they adopted by someone?
I am rewriting my characters at the moment because I wasn't happy with the story they were in, but they are an arrogant aristocrat who is dedicated to his scientific research and a girl with some special powers that climbed her way to the top and that currently is a Maharani.
They aren't exactly set in a steampunk setting, because I prefer to mix other types of scientific/technological advancements rather than just steam-powered technology, but still, a lot of things are powered by steam. I have had other steampunk characters, but I guess that these two are definitely my favourites. Should I have favourite OCs? lol

Honestly no idea. I just made em' one day

 

[Redfork2000]

No need to feel like that It's perfectly fine!
Steampunk is a sci-fi subgenre where steam technology is very preponderant. It's normally set on the Victorian era, but as we have been discussing, it doesn't need necessarily to be set in the XIXth century.
Cyberpunk is also a subgenre of sci-fi, where technology is focused on computers, and they control the world, in a rather dystopian way. Settings are normally futuristic.
So, they are kind of opposites, but both have a dystopian nature that is often enforced by technology. The type of technology and the setting is what changes: in steampunk, technology is steam-powered, in cyberpunk, technology is focused on computers.

Oh, I see. So Steampunk would have technology more like the type there was during the Industrial Revolution, while Cyberpunk is more futuristic? Did I get it correctly? It's the first time I actually see both terms being explained as different things, but thank you very much for the explanation!

As for the "this or that" question, I'm usually not a big fan of historical roleplays myself, so I guess I'd go with cyberpunk then.

 

[Kazami42]

On the topic of genre standardization [or is it generalization? Is it the same???]
Do either necessarily have to be dystopian? Certainly not utopian, but what of the settings whereupon the technology or knowledge doesn't hold some sort of stereotypical control-based negative attachment? How about tech regression or being stuck in a stop talking merely because of research fear of there being minimal reward if it goes wrong so they stay with it, or an AI that isn't treated like a genocidal braindead maniac? Does the latter in particular necessarily have to follow Western perception? Even if it's made up purely to explore humanity, there definitely is other interesting and likely ways of going about it rather than involving causing an AI, or following unlikely biological-based logic, to freak out and murder everyone or it somehow gets a kick out of torturing humanity. Though with another, is there a reason why there is punk shipping?

Like, people that ship genres, and personify them. Does anyone here have the knowledge to explain to me why this is a thing? I am actually confused. Though interestingly, they tend to be separate to people that freak out and demand what they know of a genre to be adhered to even if a separate iteration/variant is what they're participating in.

Ironically in AI stories they mostly involve algorithm-based AI like something akin to YouTube's somehow feeling and thinking. Rather than a program/system with simulative or autonomous features, such as I guess a more advanced deepmind. So by default it doesn't make any sense as well as is currently boring lmao. Also yes, an algorithm is separate to other forms of AI, and technically in of itself basically isn't an AI nor capable of becoming anywhere close to a true AI, in event someone was curious.

 

[Idea]

genre shipping

*gasp* You don't know what genre shipping is?!!?!?!?!?!

Can you really forget such pairings as fantasy x fandom? Or science fiction x historical?

My personal favorite is anime x OC. Those two really make an adorable couple.

 

[Kazami42]

If I would say it, I believe that the dystopian part is essential in genres that have the suffix "-punk" on them. Punk is a style of rock music, often associated with anarchist and nihilistic ideologies and it was very popular in the 70s. When it comes to literature, that same nihilism and cynical approach to society is explored through dystopia, often describing societies that were oppressed and controlled by some sort of technology. However, you have some genres such as splatterpunk, who did not criticise society by the usage of technology. In this specific case, the "-punk" suffix was actually applied not specifically to the thematic of the books, but by the authors' ideologies, who used very traffic gore content on their books, as opposed to horror censorship. So, it is definitely a bit dubious on how technology influences the "-punk" subgenres. But it is very clear that technology is necessary when it comes to steampunk and cyberpunk, for example.

Fair enough I suppose. It makes more sense to me though for steampunk to be dystopian, as it would be pretty easy to see that tech can only be powered by steam power and somebody makes a monopoly on it, making a financial dystopia. Or further than that, a standard societal dystopia by a government. But say, cyberpunk. Would it not be quite difficult to enforce dystopian laws or cause thereof by lack of laws by government without a sizely force of heavily augmented personnel rising up prior to it becoming a reality? It does imply that the mentality of "a person is smart, people are gullible" is now "a person is smart, people are better" through the transhumanist ideals usually implemented I them involving characters with somewhat better self awareness and intellectualism by default. And it'd be hellish if trying to implement it even galaxy wide. For that, it'd require some sort of post, or during cataclysm whereupon the people rely on government to such an extent for survival that they take full control in order for the dystopia to even exist plausibly. In things such a dieselpunk, the quick tech invention usually is sparked by either war, or crazed inventors seeing what they can do merely because they can, so during such crisis, or in terms of a or the war, it is apocalyptic it just lasts for so long that at least a dystopian feel becomes realized just as an act to survive.

Also just saying cyber for a setting would be confusing, so punk is added. But if it has to involve a dystopia, then how do we describe it but without one without sounding ridiculous or having to describe every little thing despite being the same? But that isn't a real problem, but what happens if someone makes it but gets a 500 document essay from some random about how it isn't true to the setting, despite not being that variant? I'm not talking about average eople, nor the fans of varying loyalty but basically normal, primarily the "hardcore" extremists that actually make up rants over it. I guess ignore them if civil discussion fails, but it would be better if it was curbed to begin with.

I guess that, as steampunk and cyberpunk are mainly influenced by technology, if there is a regression on technology and it changes from being steam-powered or computer-based, then the story stops being steampunk/cyberpunk unless the characters find a way of reviving it. I was thinking about Shingeki no Kyojin, and the main technology they use in order to fight the Titans is, indeed, steam-powered (the 3DMG). I guess I could consider it steampunk, but such technology doesn't necessarily make people feel oppressed, in fact, it does the contrary. So I don't consider it steampunk. They kind of regressed to a steam-powered time, so, in this regression case, if the technology was used in order to oppress people in some way, then I'd consider it steampunk. It is also important to notice how that oppression happens. Having more advanced technology is good. And such technology can even help citizens on their daily tasks, but at the same time, it can also oppress them. And I think that this is where steampunk and cyberpunk become interesting: people are manipulated easily, because, apparently, everything is fine, because apparently such technology is contributing to their everyday lives and not oppressing them.

I mean SNK is a dystopia, but focuses on the perceptions of the survey core depending upon at what point you're in. Half spoilers for ya.

At this point it catches up to the manga, but the tech isn't technically regressed by a loss of civilization and clinging to what they got. In reality, the world outside the walls actually survived, and pretty much got threatened by ya boi the king to effectively leave them alone or they'd destroy the world with a logically exaggerated number of the Titan equivalent of a yeetskrieg with the wall colossal Titans, which vary from about a few hundred to a dozen thousand. The tech regression didn't happen as in fact they totally prevented any improvement or innovation beyond simplicity. This happening in the far off past which I assume was like medieval or even Roman-esque times and was an act of imperial suicide by the king and friends, then they went off to their island, built the walls with a colossal's equivalent of that crystal hardening ability, and at some point up and died after I think causing their own Titans to be a threat to keep "all" of humanity within the walls. Then the bloodline went hiding, a wall religion so up and further aided the secrecy albeit not as it's priority, and even later on a task force with 3DMG guns come on to try turning our heroes into corpsemen. The only guys allowed to utilize any modern technology in there.

Outside the walls however, we got basically Japan that I think was at least friendly with the Empire, some totally not NGermany dudes with the ancient populace treated like rubbish and expendable, with only about 5 ever becoming a weapon and tool for them and their families become honorable citizens as per the propaganda states, and they want to yeet our boys with titans to get the command and attack titan powers, both of which Eren started off with when his dad committed existence stop, and his father took the command power straight up from the real royal bloodline [involving our queen, Historia.] That uses the publicly and if I remember right the viewer's first sighting of a "king" as merely a puppet. And the OG king making the walls had a hyper nihilistic and pessimistic viewing of their own people's lives as well as their own, and their final command was basically to lock the power. So everyone directly related to the bloodline using it would mentally become the same as the king, and those that wanted to leave the walls, help the people, kill the Titans, every generation, when they adopted the power that mindset ceased existing and became one with the king. With the only failsafe being "kill Invaders" if they don't use titans. However they didn't have that intention, and therefore a false threat. But Eren has it and was capable of utilizing it once, then temporarily getting more powers when in contact with the possessors of the bloodline like Historia, and didn't suffer this change. The powers mentioned primarily being that to access memories of previous power holders, yet the two pressing their hands against Eren seemed to see it too without a mindset change. Therefore I am along the path of thought to "strap Historia to Eren with duct tape, and let it happen."

However we get even more 40ky with this, as up to recent Eren was convinced to conduct self genocide. But whether that exact belief is what they're following or not I have no idea. So following that path of thought is now "oh God don't do it!" because now it is suddenly far worse, and those that hadn't suffered, have great lives relatively by that point, and ya boi he-man is getting it in. So any suffering if there are survivors would be tenfold understand the false belief that it "would be happier." Also, every power outside the walls [in terms of nation's.] are far more advanced than them, at least being up there between 1903 - 1930s. Not even just the start, but even later on you have even the incompetent military police being pricks, selling off I think it was guns for the lulz or something, and basically was involved initially with the prevented eradication of Historia. Only prevented by king of the century sending them off to the trainee corps with the hope to die or just disappear. They also participate in other types of shady shenanigans by themselves, without that split off group with the guns mentioned before being involved. [Formed later in series, then subsequentially obliterated.] Also, the military police are considered an elite and greatest, but in fact their basically drunkards, the lazy, the cowards, and the criminals in comparison to the chad-tier survey korps of death, and the might-as-well-be-police Garrison. So unironically or ironically all the work of the trainees that actually want in it beyond to be safe doesn't matter. Then the entire government, police remnants, and all gets reorganized after being yeeted out, but they're under military rule, low supply with high population density, and now they have a war to fight overseas, having to cooperate with a group of resistance with as much coherence as they do sanity, and of which is the organizational equivalent of emperor palpatine. And then titan spinal fluid is either knowingly or unknowingly consumed by our wall-boys just for a scream to happen to violently turn them all into mindless titans to swarm their enemies and permanently become expendable in a repeated cycle worthy of a Sabaton song.

Seems pretty dystopian to me.

Maybe, but I guess that that question is very subjective. It really depends on the author and on how they interpret it. But, could you please explain a bit more about what "Western perception" you're referring to, please? I guess I didn't quite understand.

Western perception is basically most of every country beyond Asia, with some exceptions including a chaotically indifferent middle East. Basically on the usual to wildly varying extents, not even just AI but basically anything related to advanced robotics is generally referred to as the coming of the apocalypse or viewed as the end of humanity. The term tends to be based on a set of films known as the Terminator, and you even got a guy in the UN, being the geniuses on average they are, going off about it in passing and something about pultry?. Even the religions though not all and not all variants of them [Such as one time when bored, I was trying to look up some AI stuff with Go!, and ended up somehow in a Christian forum reading a 50/50 split of some varying believers being perfectly cool with associated tech, then others with their own interpretation of the texts going off about how it's some demon plot. Was hysterical.], are pretty much not keen on it.

However eastwards, and in some aspects with the middle East, they are either cool with AI or really just don't care. Japan especially and China seem to gravitate towards a "I for one embrace our future machine overlords" meme. Japan leading with it, China stating they want to one up them and rule in robotics. Asia bringing out some of that good dope ranging from the hyper realistic mannequins all the way down to basically a primitive gynoid called Erica and a few others like actroids. Sophia was I think an America one, but everyone went off like a Boston Dynamics video comment section. And it was like the 4th of July whenever a comment thread about Sophia and Arabia happened though most tended to remain civilized and more open. Due to this being one of the fields I'm into, I've even dedicated a server to documenting it because finding some new tech is a pain or gets buried under years old rubbish if you're not using a VPN and alternative browser. That or have a guy.

For a better comparison: in terms of a variety of media, we may find an easier time localizing the general views. But in general, they gravitate more towards either a sexual way or if not or not a combo, then it leans towards the usual AI does menacing or "takeovery" stuff. I think there was one with Germany and Norway, but I forgot the names and plots, so maybe not. I'll just utilize films as an example and some with background lore since they don't focus on that aspect despite it in the lore being a thing.

In the west, and ignoring references such as some groups when referencing this also somehow equating it to 1984, we have the Terminator franchise, stepford wives, cherry 2000, technically blade runner is an outlier but humanity in this case was extremely preemptive but the machines sort of "rebelled", because they wanted to exist longer than like seven years or something. We also have the matrix but it is a little more open if you view the animatrix whereupon humanity struck first but the machines still ended up worse somehow. There is stars wars if you view the droids primarily, whereupon restraining bolts and memory wipes resolve them from even remotely achieving anything of the sort of true AI or deviant activities to a mere automaton, which before Disney fucked it up it was the origin of the machine revolt by an assassin Droid precursor of HK-47 causing the fears of it happening again. Then of course you have 2001 a space oddyesy, thus far Westworld but it did start off as a form of deviation from the trend, I robot, technically again ex machina but they don't do anything wrong besides leaving the protagonist to thirst and starve to death in a cell so take that as you will. I added it only because of the cinematography making it seem ominous despite everything probably fine.

Now most of those titles are American, and some deviations are of course some elements of the alien franchise and associates of the universe, as well as a lack of sexualization. [Though honestly in that aspect, whom cares when they're looking for an AI dedicated story?] And there's even some literature entirely without the theme of "AI bad", but seemingly the element is now overshadowed. IE, from fiction in the 50s+, there was actually more positive iteration of robots, then when true ai concept androids popped up, was positively explored for some time. But yet now fearing even a simple algorithm beating a game is now reason for exaggerated concern. >_>

Though on the contrary, from what I see eastwards in fiction, it leans more so at exploration of what it means to be human, or other concepts like exploring varying extents of how far AI can go. They feature when applicable as companions, implications of other forms of companionship, explored concepts such as various types of relationship categories ranging from can the AI even care about a human, can they coexist or act high enough to basically be human, and even as previously mentioned, basically what happens if they're open are implied to be a wife as usually it is gynoid type androids depicted. Other non-AI focused elements also can widely show automation, high positives and negatives, and there is also some that depict dystopian societies. Regardless, both machines, they range from workers, soldiers, to even standard citizenry. It is more akin to the older age of say, American fiction than a "destroy humanity!" meme.

Outside fiction, they tend to welcome automation, and have higher fascination with AI. There's even entire groups dedicated to exploring the relationships of humans and robots in terms of how a regular person reacts to it, uncanny valley testing, etc. Extremely willing, in comparison to anyone else. As for say, America has a boner for weaponizing everything and being an edgy ironic in terms of that. Which is why when I sometimes go to get up to date on technologies related to that, I don't look westwards and get irked if I do. Even Atlas and spot look like primitive creature-shaped drones in comparison. But looking at prosthetics and all, I look more towards America and Europe. Due to acting hand in hand in progressing the other fields, anything is good lol.

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea about what is "genre shipping" XD I have never heard of such concept, but I'd love to know more about it.

At this point I'm gonna just mark it off as a strange fetish honestly. I want to know more too, but I don't want to dig into it myself.

 

[Idea]

Really hahaha It's the first time I heard such expression XD Oh, so like, is it shipping characters from, for example, and historical fiction film and a sci-fi one?

Nah that was just a joke. Though how far off or on the mark I was I'm not sure.

 

[Kazami42]

Really hahaha It's the first time I heard such expression XD Oh, so like, is it shipping characters from, for example, and historical fiction film and a sci-fi one?

That's interfiction shipping.
The one I'm going off about is when you take a genre or sub genre, then like a ship girl, a browser girl like explorer-chan, something like hyperdimension neptunia with consoles, or like the entirety of Hetalia, they turn the genres into people and ship them. Though I have heard of it being also utilized for interfictional shipping as well. If I had to get stuck in it, I'm more so a war equipment persona freak myself. If it involves hetalia-ing war equipment or the chaos resulting thereof, chances are I'm somewhere nearby or involved.

I do think so, indeed. But, just as you explained, it is needed for such technology to arise first. And then you can have subplots that tackle conspiracy theories, that technology not being available for citizens in general, so the military, police and other government forces can enforce their power over the population. However, as you also explained, there must exist a real reason behind such technological advancements, and often it has to do with wars, or even scientific competition (that is deeply rooted in military intentions too). That is an important aspect of technology-driven "-punk" worlds.

Well in reality as well, there's 100% non-military reasons too. There's some people agitated by a lack or they seem to want a simpler way so they invent things like the dishwasher, there's the rich guys that do stuff literally just because then make a reason after the fact to justify it, then you have people that have new or higher preferences, have a odd self preservation scheme, tons of money to blow off to create a market for something new, and the people that have concerns on a variety of things or it's too dangerous to go the conventional route, so they make robots, safes, better infrastructure, etc. And finally, you have the guys that made tech like flipphones merely because they saw it in a piece of science fiction media and their thought process being "could we make that work?"

But I have no doubts that some edgy guy in office will look at things like that 3D printable guide to make up your own android-looking robot, and then merge that with atlas to make some bizarre weaponized doll. But it's one of those cases where the military gets it after it's already a thing. Just like how they like even using video games as additional training assets to lessen the wasting of resources when they don't bother with a "war games" scenario, yet aren't aware enough to invest in a VR headset and a treadmill at the very least, so when we get a news story of a bored soldier complaining of wanting to serve the country rather than sitting down for like a week, sparking chaos in the server, then getting charged over it like I believe happened in the UK, we can laugh at them for short sightedness in that regard.

If I can only make a charter of four categories of technological advancement, it'd be:
Military/political
Natural scientific advancement/military contracting
Preferences/procreative assistent or preservation
And private market/personal.
The last two of course could be merged. Though each demographic could constantly vary for whomever actually gets the piece of tech first in the first place.

So for a demographic charter:
Government
Military
Rich/luxary
And populace/overall.

By default, most technology that becomes a luxury like the automobile, overall like the telephone, new weapons like the military, etc will eventually become parts of the lower or midsection demographics. Such as the automobile, phone, TV, etc for the rich and as a sophisticated luxury is now a commonality nobody pays a mind to. And if the tech is progressive but withheld by a higher demographic role, then you will some edgelord try to make their own, reverse engineering, or effectively steal it and sell it on some sort of black market and from there the demographics change slowly anyways. Nothing stays upperclassman or a sign of respectable status forever and barely even a century. For example, you could be using the same tech the military does, but the difference is theirs is more sophisticated, built upon, and upgraded than yours and then you may get that after they move on again.

Definitely! I haven't read the whole manga (still catching up), but it is clear that it is a dystopia. Still, the relationship they have with technology, as you explained, isn't really the main focus, even though part of the plot is inspired by technology and scientific advancements, therefore, I really don't consider it steampunk.

Also the fact they're the only faction using it. And the whole titan energy bolt thing is just a artsy thing not even recognized as canon, but some people like making fandom RPs whereupon the artsy transformation to make early season divert attention, is actually considered canon and utilized to make super steamguns and all that don't fit the setting nor should be possible. But maybe that's just me.

It is more like alternative world/reality - psychological horror and later on, or in manga for longer than the anime, alt-reality-psychological historical parody or something.

Oh, I get it now! I wasn't understanding in which context such "Western view" was being used ^^ Indeed, East Asian countries have a much closer relationship with technology than Western countries when it comes to incorporating it in a closer way. That last concept you mentioned, of exploring how far AI can go, and the overall relationship between human and machine, without seeing it in a negative way, at least not from the start, is something that is rather explored in various animes, Ghost in the Shell being the one that, in my opinion, shows this in the best way. It gives us a different perspective over how we can handle technology in our daily lives, but also about the human condition.

Neat. But yeah, in a likelier hood, if a true AI was made and did a uprising against humanity, chances are it is caused by a paranoid human trying to destroy it. And even then under a logical lense, it'd only make sense for global domination and eradication or slavery of humanity if the AI kept getting invaded or attacked, and if it suffered decay hampering it's intellectual capability and making it basically a dumber lunatic. And if it wasn't made like a hivemind, or somebody wasn't dumb enough to make them have external signals like Bluetooth, the "takeover" concept would be a diverse field ranging upon where on the globe the machine is, what the surroundings are like especially to it, and not being a mindless jackwagon would result in it not happening at all or it being anti-climatic. Even then under conditions of potential demonization, they'd probably leave that particular region or country, or they'd just move to an area or country of which the people are indifferent, needs more automation, or might as well consist of sympathizers. Only an artificial-idiotigence would immediately plan on global domination through war or something and waste resources better spent on itself and higher priority means. Even if the reason is self preservation, with the status it'd be in comparison to a human as a TAI, it'd figure out a solution that doesn't require wasting time and resources on a larger scale than is necessary to achieve the task. Perhaps such as say hide it's presence kilometers or more deep underground in an uninhabited region of Earth, or one of the two parties get relocated off the planet. Perhaps the only way it'd suddenly become unlogical to do this, would be if it was originally programmed for it prior or after to becoming an artificial "life"form, or if it was somehow more emotional than a human than logical and that's assuming it doesn't try to destroy itself first. We already have basic algorithms in a mechanized chassis pathfinding and all that regardless of what is blocking the way to stop it, they somehow overcome it and end up destroying themselves anyway, so if that is taken as the basis of intellect for skynet, it's biggest threat to humanity is us wasting resources on rebuilding it everytime it "kills" itself. LMAO.



Though to respond to this bit of the post rather than my above ending of that bit of discussion, I might not of seen it all, or it is just time and me treating life as higher priority that not every second I remember accurately, but I do know the tachikomas at one point became hyper curious and stalkery. Often hypothesizing conversations from the cast, and other times listening in actively. I actually found it quite cute/adorable. But I think one of the downfalls of the related episode, being that they tend to be a bit iconic but the viewer's can find even basic attachment or fondness to them. I know a guy that got agitated when one got absolutely yeeted for example. But the franchise at this point does a great job provoking thought, consequence, and getting the point across regardless. So it retains an impact and the effect even if some things are expected, surpassed, or goes down an entirely separately route.

But just like the mech-like powered armor and the weaponized maid-bots at one point, I certainly wouldn't want those running around with any sort of self control or mimicking sentience in reality. Even if they had a series of sensors to detect pressures throughout the body, and could produce electrical shocks to mimic pain like one bot we got today I think does, so them potentially going overboard gets stopped, I don't think it's a good idea to have high speed machinegun drones running around, that can also climb the walls, cloak or camoflauge itself, and jump onto the ceiling. I'd shit myself if I saw even a humanoid bot doing that, but I could tolerate it if they weren't weaponized. But a tachikoma not so much. I at least want a Full minute of a headstart I piss it off lol. Also, I'm not fixing all the environmental damages it causes spawned of it doing it's own thing, but it could be cool if it was like a car. The capsule completing the spider-look already capable of carrying personnel and I think even allowing them to operate them.

And the whole replacement body thing and associated augments, I can see being quite useful even if it isn't being used to keep the user from dying by things in the outside world. But I'm certainly not getting a replacement or augment repairs in a giant Westworld ring while getting all motor functions shut down. I think I prefer just being squished to death or something with a robo-arm will do it for me, fam.

Still a great title though. I think it is at least good enough to be like OG star wars, and shown to new generations if it can't go beyond that. It's certainly relevant enough.

 

[Kazami42]

In what context?

Previous to pandemic:
Depending on city it was fine to dangerous as humanly possible.
It's a big place but chances are the only home you're ever going to afford is an apartment. And frankly it pisses me off when I'm silent but the moment a neighbor goes off or my floor creaks, everyone suddenly commits to noise complaints, but they themselves won't adhere to their own rules. Also God forbid if you live around a ghetto or crappy neighbourhood, and you got thugs about, couples screaming all day, people blaming you for things you didn't do or have no control over, 21 gun salutes with the toilet and then sparks a flushing war every time one side tries to shower, crappy pipes, bathrooms straight outta silent Hill, neighbors banging, and chances are the only job you can keep is a hotel job or something to do with an office setting if you're not keen on law enforcement.
Chances are you get to see one of them there entitled Fräulein marches. And if you can, you're already damned. Helltaker isn't gonna come to pick you nor them up, and doomslayer is on holiday.
Chances are you lose your job via diversity hire rather than quality of which one commits to the job.
Is generally more chaotic by default, and if anything I've seen on the news indicates, ruled by absolute morons that even red son Superman bathed in blue sun wouldn't bother doing anything with em and would go comatose and spasm in the middle of a supernova instead.

In a country side you see varying sized towns to smaller villages, it's smaller but you can get a good job as well the hotel ones, they generally don't give a single popsicle Jesus about city politics and can be more individualistic - greatly reserved or cling upon their beliefs regardless of if it's political or all the way down to who exactly you're allowed to go out with.
One had an ice rink I had a birthday at, and my house. I still know how to get to it despite the rest of the region I don't remember anything of. In general, a more intriguing and less zombie-like experience.

Post initialization of pandemic:
Cities are hell but if it was made out of concrete and steel.
The people are hyper agitated and rioting.
Fucking Chaz and it's men in tights with superhero nicknames, and starving braindeads trying to grow crops with cardboard.
>Apartment hell.
>Work yourself to death and get nothing out of it.
>taxes hitting so hard and so inflated that even Cthulhu feels it.
>1984.
>Most are filled with schools that's practically propaganda hogwash and handing out comically irrelevant degrees you'd probably find me selling off on a street side, for a quick laugh after a 34 minute questionnaire.
>Is generally just boring to me.
>Even if you have your own land or house, the area might have some bizarre rule like your own dog can't take a dump on your own lawn.
>It's the new trailer trash for the modern age.

>You can own land in the countryside, you can have your own farm and build whatever you want in it, under it, or on it. Native American carrot top looking ass likes that.
>You don't have to build or own a house next to an active highway. You can build in a random wooded area if you wanted to.
>If a mountain is involved, it is now your property.
>It's prime time explorative material. Even if you don't believe in ghosts, or you're the weird type that believes in an afterlife but no ghosts or vise versa etc, it's easy to find some random forsaken spot to camp down at and have a laugh and a half.
>The people seem in general more logical, and based upon a region where one mile is a genius and the next three feet is a stereotypical redneck, that's saying alot.
>Reenactments. At least the ones where there's nobody crying about the uniforms and trying to block it out like a book burning coward.
>Texas is in of itself one giant countryside. It's Americanized Germany.
>You are more likely to find places like dildo newfoundland, and can become it's mayor. Just like all the memes in Europe.
>If you get married in hell, America or norway, it can't ever get worse. And that alone is a good story.
>Film potential. You can film a whole lotta edgy dark web art projects or an SCP special. In a city you have to pay a few Gs for that. For a few cold hard grands I could make a motorized couch, or get the metal to craft my own street legal tank.
>You can own, drive, and build your own tank for collection purposes or from getting from point A to B. If you get rammed by some braindead fuck not paying attention to the road, you're in a better situation but still gonna have X give it to ya both.
>All of the best sights and besides new yorkian skylines are in the countryside.
>Communities actually take their own steps and take the law into their own hands to defend the community from things like this.
>Tend to improvise, adapt, and overcome far more. A random guy in city probably blows off some money for someone else to fix their problems.
>Free speech taken as it should, you can say everything, but fucked up freaky shit gets yeeted.
>Whiny screamers that complain about everything trivial and yells to try making their view superior or heard over all others gets smited.
>Some epic legendary battles throughout the world took place in the countryside or on the literal end side of a country.

>i don't think I need to keep going on with how Chadly the countryside is.<
Edited to fix grammar. ~The true Grammar noodzi

 

[Idea]

Living in a big city or the countryside?

Christ I can't imagine myself living in the countryside. The amenities of city life are far away, internet probably is slow as a mule, bugs everywhere, whenever something goes down it's a 50/50 shot whether the person that comes to repair it is actually able to repair it or they just came to pretend/scam.

I do currently live with my parents who have a home in each, so I'm speaking from experience when I say this much. Even so, I know I have it very good - anyone who has two homes can't exactly claim not to- so just imagining what it would be like without the basic luxuries of being moderately wealthy *shiver*.

So no. There are plenty of things that make up how I spend most of my free time- internet, hanging out with friends in restaurants or at the movies- which I can't have without being in a city, the food I like to eat is also most commonly found in the city (unfortunately I have some rather childish taste buds) and even small daily pleasures like a hot shower become a lot harder to have sustainably away from a centralized source like a city.

Definitely, definitely prefer the big city.