Th1rteen R3asons Why [spoiler & trigger warning]

[Chordling]

Warning: This thread contains spoilers to the original Netflix series, Th1rteen R3asons Why. It will also discuss sensitive topics, such as drug abuse, rape, and suicide. Reader discretion is encouraged.

If you are considering self-harm or suicide, please, seek professional help. You are not alone. Your friends here at RpNation care about you.

Th1rteen R3asons Why is an original Netflix series about a high school student, Hannah Baker, who commits suicide the summer of her junior year. Days before her death, Hannah creates cassette tapes, which explains the reasons why she did what she did. Each tape describes one of Hannah's classmates and the type of relationship she had with them. Throughout the first season, we follow Clay Jensen as he listens to each tape, and discover the mysteries behind Hanna's death.

Before we begin, allow me to elaborate how my opinions have been influenced. I am the child of a social worker, who runs their own private practice and works the late night shifts at the hospital. Discussions about mental health are common around my household. Secondly, I went through a period of depression in my freshman year of high school. It was not a fun time, but I am very grateful for all of the supportive people in my life who helped me realize that I am valued. I feel that these influences are what drew me to the series in the first place. I never read the book before or even knew that it had existed until Netflix released the first season.

Aaaaand without further ado, I think it's time to get started. Below, I have compiled my own responses to prompts, rumors, and ideas that have been circulated around the internet within separate spoilers. You are free to reply to each individual prompt or to my own reactions. Or both. You may also leave other ideas which I may not have included for others to comment on as well.


Th1rteen R3asons Why romanticizes suicide.

Spoiler

A lot of people have fully committed their newsfeeds with full approval to this idea. I have a hard time agreeing with this. After watching the entire series myself in just under three days, I do not find any romantic about the way Hannah had ended her life. This is not a 'Romeo and Juliet' kind of suicide. In the Shakespeare classic, Juliet takes her own life under the belief that her star crossed lover has died. When their families discover the tragedy, they place a statue up in their honor. This is not to say that Shakespeare's story is the end all example of all romanticized suicides, but I can't help but to think of the forbidden love that occurred within the Montague and Capulet households and compare. While Hannah does narrate that one of the reasons why she had killed herself was because she was unable to express her feelings for Clay, it was not her only reason. There were 11 other people she had targeted. I believe she felt more loneliness rather than a lack of love.

Th1rteen R3asons Why supports the idea of suicide.

Spoiler

Yes, I will agree, the show can potentially cause an individual who is suffering from depression to feel even worse, which is why so many people have advised others not to watch this series if they do feel that way. However, I do not believe that this should be an argument for us not to watch this show, read the book, and talk about it. The more we talk about it, the better we are able to help others who no longer believe that their life is worth anything.

Tony lied.

Spoiler

I actually haven't seen this statement or theory in the interwebs quite yet, so this is from my own realization (not to say that others haven't thought of it). But, I do believe that Tony lied to Clay. Yes, you heard me right, Tony freaking lied. After dragging Clay up the side of a rock wall, Tony confides in him, and says that he found Hannah on the day she died. That he was the one who called 911. But, in the last episode, we discover that Hannah's mother was the first to stumble on the depressing scene, and her father was the one to call the emergency number.

I feel like this part of the plot is very significant and that it did not get any attention when most of the other dramatic events seemed to resolve itself. Why did Tony lie to Clay about discovering Hannah's body? Was it to try to give more closure about his friend?

Tyler shot Alex.

Spoiler

There is a lot of evidence that supports this theory. In the last episode, the principle of Liberty High barges into the school counselor's office to report that that the student, Alex Standall, had shot himself in the head (which we see a foreshadowing of earlier in the series). It is easy to believe that Alex could have shot himself. His father is a police officer and owns many firearms. Accessing a gun is probably a lot easier for Alex than it is for someone else who does not live in a household with the same attributes.

However, earlier in the same episode, we find Tyler packing a few things away in a very large suitcase, specifically, guns. Later, we see him in a film room with a few developing photos. There is a picture for each of the people that Hanna mentions in her tapes. Tyler stops to look at Alex's photo, and has a flashback to when Alex intervened a bully for him in the hallway. When the memory is finished, he takes Alex's picture down. Knowing that Alex has been shot by the very end of the series, and using the information we know about Tyler, I believe Tyler has created a "hitlist" of sorts with the photos of his classmates.

I find that Th1rteen R3asons Why is a series with the intentions to ignite discussions about modern society issues, such as teenage suicide. A part of me believes that season two will bring in the topic of gun violence and school shootings, just basing it on the last few moments of the final episode.

 

[TheRockInception]

My whole opinion on this show is that it's something edgy for high schoolers or 7th-8th graders to obsess over. That being said. suicide should not be commercialized. It's important that suicide should be talked about in classrooms everywhere as something serious. It's not a drama. There are people around you that might as well kill themselves than live without you, which include your parents (if they're still living), relatives, friends, etc.. There's other things that contribute to suicide as well, not just social relationships. Things like finding a job, money, the list goes on and on. Another big problem is that our mental healthcare system has been dismantled by Bible Thumping Conservative Jesus Ronald "McDonald" Reagan. I had to wait for MONTHS without seeing a social worker. I'm also sure there's a shortage of social workers as well, but that's speculation on my part without looking at facts. My highschool has/had 3 social workers. 3. There's a lot of kids in this school.

 

[Communist]

My whole opinion on this show is that it's something edgy for high schoolers or 7th-8th graders to obsess over. That being said. suicide should not be commercialized. It's important that suicide should be talked about in classrooms everywhere as something serious. It's not a drama. There are people around you that might as well kill themselves than live without you, which include your parents (if they're still living), relatives, friends, etc.. There's other things that contribute to suicide as well, not just social relationships. Things like finding a job, money, the list goes on and on. Another big problem is that our mental healthcare system has been dismantled by Bible Thumping Conservative Jesus Ronald "McDonald" Reagan. I had to wait for MONTHS without seeing a social worker. I'm also sure there's a shortage of social workers as well, but that's speculation on my part without looking at facts. My highschool has/had 3 social workers. 3. There's a lot of kids in this school.

I have a hard time trying to figure out why Ronald Reagan was liked. The guy only turned the Cold War worse by insulting Russians and then he did other things like this that you stated.

 

[TheRockInception]

I have a hard time trying to figure out why Ronald Reagan was liked. The guy only turned the Cold War worse by insulting Russians and then he did other things like this that you stated.

Five words: Koch Brothers and Big Money
Not to mention the fact that he pandered to southerners.

 

[Communist]

Five words: Koch Brothers and Big Money
Not to mention the fact that he pandered to southerners.

I guess money solves everything.

 

[thoughtless]

Let me just preface this with the fact that I haven't read the book nor have I watched the show and I don't care to do so. However, I have read about the suicide scenes and rape scenes that the show includes and let me just say this:
I appreciate what the show is trying to do and raise more awareness about suicide and rape, but it's going about it the entirely wrong way.

The topic of depression can be covered without showing the graphic suicide scene that can trigger both people with depression. The topic of rape can also be covered without showing multiple rape scenes that can trigger people who have gone through sexual harassment. Not to mention that the episodes where these scenes were shown didn't have trigger warnings (as far as I'm aware, correct me if I'm misinformed.)

Another problem I have is the fact that people seemingly can't empathize with those that suffer from depression without these scenes, and I think it's there that the problem lies. Almost like listening to people with actual depression speak about their mental illness isn't enough for them to "get" it.

So my final verdict on the whole thing is that it should've remained a book.

I'm also confused as to why they made Hannah's suicide so much more graphic than what it was in the book?? Because in the book she took pills, but in the show she slit her wrists so?? Why??

I also don't like how they made it seem like Hannah committed suicide as an ultimate "Fuck you, I got my revenge." to the people in the 13 tapes, but again I didn't read the book or watch the show so I don't know if that's correct.

 

[TheRockInception]

Let me just preface this with the fact that I haven't read the book nor have I watched the show and I don't care to do so. However, I have read about the suicide scenes and rape scenes that the show includes and let me just say this:
I appreciate what the show is trying to do and raise more awareness about suicide and rape, but it's going about it the entirely wrong way.

The topic of depression can be covered without showing the graphic suicide scene that can trigger both people with depression. The topic of rape can also be covered without showing multiple rape scenes that can trigger people who have gone through sexual harassment. Not to mention that the episodes where these scenes were shown didn't have trigger warnings (as far as I'm aware, correct me if I'm misinformed.)

Another problem I have is the fact that people seemingly can't empathize with those that suffer from depression without these scenes, and I think it's there that the problem lies. Almost like listening to people with actual depression speak about their mental illness isn't enough for them to "get" it.

So my final verdict on the whole thing is that it should've remained a book.

I'm also confused as to why they made Hannah's suicide so much more graphic than what it was in the book?? Because in the book she took pills, but in the show she slit her wrists so?? Why??

I also don't like how they made it seem like Hannah committed suicide as an ultimate "Fuck you, I got my revenge." to the people in the 13 tapes, but again I didn't read the book or watch the show so I don't know if that's correct.

Besides, suicide can happen at ANY AGE. From 15-45, someone will attempt and possibly succeed at killing themselves. As I mentioned earlier, it's not only high-school drama that will make someone want to eat a bullet or something of the like. Suicide and other serious issues can't be allowed to be dramatized or commercialized just so Selena Gomez can have thousands of young emo/edgy fans who have no proper context that suicide isn't a drama or something to write fanfiction over.

 

[TheRockInception]

I guess money solves everything.

Welcome to American politics, do you want your campaign funders and your leaders to be in a choice of old, white and male or old, white and male?

 

[Windsock]

I've never heard of this until now, but it sounds like engineered autism bait, designed so that fucking normies will obsess over it with the force of what was only once available to stupid nerds roughly 30 years ago.

Dark times...

 

[minajesty]

Ive never actually heard of the show. But you guys keep making it sound interesting. I think I might just watch it.

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

Since this thread is bringing up suicide, I think this needs to be brought up, too. Here're the numbers you can call if you're thinking about suicide:

United States
24-hour National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255 (press 2 for Spanish)
24-hour Crisis text line: Text HOME to 741741
Crisis Chat
Spanish Speaking suicide hotline: 1-800-784-2432

Canada
BC hotline: 1-800-784-2433 (1-800-SUI-CIDE)
Greater Vancouver: 604-872-3311
Lower Mainland and Sunshine Coast: 1-866-661-3311
Crisis Chat

United Kingdom
Samaritans suicide hotline: 116 123

Here's a list of hotlines for more countries if yours isn't above: http://togetherweare-strong.tumblr.com/helpline
Here's even more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

 

[Axel The Englishman]

T TheRockInception

Hmmmm... can I get a Charles Darwin?

 

[TheRockInception]

My b.
But I think this article is of some relevance. https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/1/15501102/13-reasons-why-controversy-suicide-contagion

 

[kibou]

I was curious about all the hype, so I really only started watching it because I saw a post talking about how horrible/triggering it was and I wanted to see exactly how horrible it was for myself.

Not gonna lie, I was kinda of disappointed. It was an average show for me- not so bad I could rant about it as much as I'd hoped, but not great or super engaging either. After starting it and being like "meh" I kept watching because I wanted to know the 13 reasons why and what was on the tapes. Probably the reason most people kept watching.

I remember having some criticisms about plot/pacing maybe but I honestly can't remember them that well.

I do however, remember the criticisms of how the show handled suicide. First off, that the creators did everything you're not supposed to do when making a show about suicide- showing it happening, making it seem like Hannah didn't have any other options, that you won't get help from people like school counselors/etc (the Mr. Porter scene), and that she got the attention she wanted after her death and a sort of revenge on the people she believed caused it. All things that have been proven to increase suicide rates in people who are at risk.

Also, the whole "glorifies suicide" argument revolves around those things- that she used it as a way to get revenge and attention, to become some sort of depressed martyr. Romanticizing doesn't have to involve romance or making death look like it's romantic. Whether anyone thinks that's bad or not is up to them.

I do think they should've spent more time on how suicide was ultimately Hannah's decision and that regardless of her explicitly blaming people, it's not their fault she committed suicide. Anything and everything you consciously choose to do is your own fault- people can have influence on others but when it comes down to it, you're responsible for your own actions. And I mean this in a general way in addition to this specific context.

People shouldn't have to blame themselves for other people's suicide (which happens irl), or feel obligated to people who threaten suicide (an abusive/emotionally manipulative tactic people use irl.)

I mean, you could say media doesn't ever influence people, but the show was obviously very preachy about how you don't know what's going on in other people's lives and should be nice to them (which is a good message I agree with) but making it out to be someone's fault just because they didn't go out of their way to do one thing or another isn't a good message. And as a side note, that's one of the complaints I had about the show- it came off way too strong and preachy for me.

Of course, people like Tyler and Bryce do deserve to be punished for their actions.

I also don't like how they made it look like the gay girl (don't remember her name) was doing something wrong by staying closeted for her own safety/comfort/etc or blaming her for trying to protect herself. That's also something I really don't agree with.

Other than that, yeah, I don't think the show or characters were super memorable. I'll probably watch the second season to keep up with what people are talking about and I'm curious to see what happens next or what they can even do now that the whole premise of the show is over (i.e, learning about the tapes and 13 reasons why.)

I didn't realize that Tony lied, actually. Not sure if that's just the show staff messing up with continuity or if that's a plot point, but I am kinda curious about that. Tony and Ryan were probably my favorite characters.


Sorry this post ended up being a little massive lmAO didn't mean to write any kind of essays on your thread.

 

[minajesty]

i just barely started watching the show a few days ago. Cause i figured out a different way to watch it besides Netflix. The first episode was okay (watching the second one as i type). So far i don't see anything triggering (but that could just be me).

From previous experiences, mods know about my suicidal tendencies (well at least one of them do). I can't say i get easily triggered, but sometimes i get urges.

I wanna know something before i go any further with this show.
On a scale from one to ten, ten being 'you shouldn't watch it, it might trigger you due to its contents', should i continue? because i don't want to watch it and then all of a sudden feel triggered and have anxiety attacks :/

 

[salvia palth]

I binged this show in a few days as well, it was on nonstop. I hadn't read the book or anything either.
Personally, I think it's a little messed up that she made tapes like that, blaming each one. Then again, it's like a note. Just in a different form.
It got a bit graphic at times, sometimes it made me want to cringe and look away for a bit. I think that's what they were going for, though?
The wow factor; the sudden hit with "real" feelings as if this was actually happening. That's the joys of television.
I liked the show, even though it didn't make sense sometimes. It's just not for some people, I get it.

They announced a second season. I guess I'll binge that one too.

 

[Count Gensokyo]

Sounds like some grade-A, prime-cut edge.

 

[kibou]

Thought it was a lot more preachy than edgy tbh. There were times it felt like those anti online bullying campaigns you'd be shown in school sometimes.

i just barely started watching the show a few days ago. Cause i figured out a different way to watch it besides Netflix. The first episode was okay (watching the second one as i type). So far i don't see anything triggering (but that could just be me).

From previous experiences, mods know about my suicidal tendencies (well at least one of them do). I can't say i get easily triggered, but sometimes i get urges.

I wanna know something before i go any further with this show.
On a scale from one to ten, ten being 'you shouldn't watch it, it might trigger you due to its contents', should i continue? because i don't want to watch it and then all of a sudden feel triggered and have anxiety attacks :/

I think that depends, I can't tell what'd cause urges for you or not but- there are graphic depictions of the suicide and rape on multiple occasions- lots of blood and you literally watch Hannah slit her wrists and bleed out, then be found later. The episodes that portray these scenes do have warnings before you watch them, but even in the episodes without any warnings there's mentions and discussion about rape, the suicide, and people who have self-harm scars or talk about self harm.

 

[TheRockInception]

You know, the best way to stop bullying would be to break up the American High-School and Middle/Elementary School social hierarchies. Cliques benefit nobody. Stop it before it starts, then it won't persist through the grades as you move towards High-School from Middle/Elementary school. I've had to deal with a bunch of cliques that were self-righteous snobs, and honestly, I just grew thicker skin and focused on my schoolwork and my hobbies, which were pretty much the reason why I was chewed up and spit out the social hierarchy, because I did and do a lot of things most people don't do. I don't listen to Pop music, I read classic literature (with one or two exceptions), I'm a fisherman, the writer, and the outcast rolled into one human being. In the world of selfies, social media, and echo chambers, I dared to break and buck against the trend and the tide.