Character Theory Stop making "finished" characters.

[peritwinkle]

So well said. I have been saying this for so long and often times it comes off as laziness when it is everything but. I know almost nothing about my characters from the very beginning. I learn about them as the story progresses and see them evolve. I feel like creating characters is much like meeting people in real life - a few things might be apparent, but you cannot know everything about them from the get go.

Not to mention how much having a complete, set in stone character limits the creative process.

 

[Jet]

So well said. I have been saying this for so long and often times it comes off as laziness when it is everything but. I know almost nothing about my characters from the very beginning. I learn about them as the story progresses and see them evolve. I feel like creating characters is much like meeting people in real life - a few things might be apparent, but you cannot know everything about them from the get go.

Not to mention how much having a complete, set in stone character limits the creative process.

I love your mindset!

 

[Jet]

Jet
This whole thread is the reason more people should want to join your rp's aha
I certainly do. If you have one link me and I shall read that bizness.

I have one going on right now thats doing pretty good. OOC is dead because we are on discord. We could use another member and because of the episodic style I use it's quite easy to introduce new people.

My Hero Academia, Revolution!

I wouldn't expect you to read the whole thing lmao, if do happen to have interest I can give a summary.

 

[Melpomene]

Well this is certainly a hot topic.

I would have to agree with Idea on this one and say that, in short, a character that is incapable of developing any further over an RP is a bad character full stop.

No matter how well developed I make a character, they should still be capable of a lot of development throughout any story I put them through because that's just how people work. Everyone changes all the time, so it makes no sense to just act as though because a character has already been well developed, defined and laid out that they cannot go through any other changes.

That is why I don't think it is a problem with "complete" characters in themselves, but just with poorly made characters. Which, trust me, I have seen in more than just "complete" characters. Many people who have developed an original character for our Rp do exactly this and make a character that is static and never actually goes through an arc.

I also have to mention that one of my favorite roleplay partners atm has complete characters and I have never once been bored or unhappy with the two rps we have going, and she seems to be enjoying them as well. This is because she made good characters that were still capable of developing despite being complete, in some senses. They still went through change and arcs.

All this is to say, I completely agree with you that a static character, in a character based story especially, is simply a bad character and makes for a boring story.

And I also agree that I tend to prefer to have characters that were tailored to especially be for the story at hand, though there is an exception with one of my partners, obviously, because I love her to death. But overall, I think your post is well said, I just disagree that the problem, in itself, is with "complete" characters but rather with poorly designed characters and writers simply writing their characters poorly.

 

[Jet]

Well this is certainly a hot topic.

I would have to agree with Idea on this one and say that, in short, a character that is incapable of developing any further over an RP is a bad character full stop.

No matter how well developed I make a character, they should still be capable of a lot of development throughout any story I put them through because that's just how people work. Everyone changes all the time, so it makes no sense to just act as though because a character has already been well developed, defined and laid out that they cannot go through any other changes.

That is why I don't think it is a problem with "complete" characters in themselves, but just with poorly made characters. Which, trust me, I have seen in more than just "complete" characters. Many people who have developed an original character for our Rp do exactly this and make a character that is static and never actually goes through an arc.

I also have to mention that one of my favorite roleplay partners atm has complete characters and I have never once been bored or unhappy with the two rps we have going, and she seems to be enjoying them as well. This is because she made good characters that were still capable of developing despite being complete, in some senses. They still went through change and arcs.

All this is to say, I completely agree with you that a static character, in a character based story especially, is simply a bad character and makes for a boring story.

And I also agree that I tend to prefer to have characters that were tailored to especially be for the story at hand, though there is an exception with one of my partners, obviously, because I love her to death. But overall, I think your post is well said, I just disagree that the problem, in itself, is with "complete" characters but rather with poorly designed characters and writers simply writing their characters poorly.

Fair play.

In no way do I have an issue with complete characters in a vacuum. I feel like that's an important point that I neglected to stress.

My issue is that a lot of people on this website get bored because their characters are already masters of this thing or that thing or are already paragons in terms of personality. If you can maintain interest with a OC like that then by all means, go for it, but I see so many of these characters get abandoned within a few posts because there's no payoff at the end. No growth beyond maybe minimal personality developments.

 

[Idea]

My issue is that a lot of people on this website get bored because their characters are already masters of this thing or that thing or are already paragons in terms of personality. If you can maintain interest with a OC like that then by all means, go for it, but I see so many of these characters get abandoned within a few posts because there's no payoff at the end. No growth maybe minimal personality developments.

Once again though, that is not a problem with "complete characters" as you put it. In that case, what you are referring to is players overestimating their own skill or not taking their own skill into account at all when creating a character. Which is a problem that spreads far beyond just "complete characters". For instance, the number of antisocial characters made when the player has no idea how to handle getting that character to interact or isn't able to make them functional on their own.

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

Well, I have nothing constructive to add, but...

Hold on, fuck, does GM really stand for "general manager?" I always thought it stood for "game master" like in tabletop RPs, lol.

 

[Idea]

I always thought it stood for "game master" like in tabletop RPs, lol.

It does

 

[Jet]

Well, I have nothing constructive to add, but...

Hold on, fuck, does GM really stand for "general manager?" I always thought it stood for "game master" like in tabletop RPs, lol.

Oh I don't play tabletops always assumed it's General Manager cause I'm a sports head. Learn something new every day I suppose.

 

[Jet]

Once again though, that is not a problem with "complete characters" as you put it. In that case, what you are referring to is players overestimating their own skill or not taking their own skill into account at all when creating a character. Which is a problem that spreads far beyond just "complete characters". For instance, the number of antisocial characters made when the player has no idea how to handle getting that character to interact or isn't able to make them functional on their own.

My thing isn't even about skill it's about attention span. Without room to grow a character many people get bored with writing them because the experience is static. If you can manage that plateau of a writing experience than fine, but a lot of people can't maintain a good interest level, which is what I'm focused on. It's not that you can't write for a long time as a static character, it's that many people won't. That's why I said that in a vacuum I have no issue with a polished, more or less static character. However I believe that a character with vast room to grow is better for RP lifespan because it gives people a goal to work towards.

If you can't buy that then ok, no big deal but that's my stance.

 

[Simon_Hawk]

Over time I've noticed the quickest drops are usually PCs who are "full", "complete" etc. No room to grow. There's no variance between post #1 and post #100 with such a character, so the writer gets bored.

Ironically it's the writers desire to have the most put together, or most badass character that leads them to this boredom, it's self inflicted. If you find yourself bored of writing a character, the culprit might be you. That you made a character devoid of arc.

No development of personality available. No development of powers or skills available. Nothing to look forward to. So its boring and then the writer quits...

Stop killing RPs by making these characters.

And no, I'm not saying everyone needs to be a nervous wreck who can't control their powers or shoot a gun straight, but don't write yourself into a corner by having a monolithic object of badassery as your character.

It's not always a question of Stus and Sues, many times it is but not always. Its repetitive writing with nowhere to expand. It occurs most with flawless power fantasy characters but I've seen it done often with the opposite, the ultra weak ones that are just helpless balls of emotions without a back bone. It can also be done with personality type even if the powers/abilities are balanced. Personalities grow and change but I see these types of character that have no growth potential and it always coincides with a quick bail.

I'm just rambling now so I'll cut myself off.

I'm not a good writer but I agree with the basis of this. I first figured it out when playing table top games. I would make a badass emotionally devoid character that could kill everything, eventually that grew super stale. It wasn't until I added some backstory and minor character flaws that allowed for growth in areas other than combat. They ended up being my favorite character!

 

[Idea]

My thing isn't even about skill it's about attention span. Without room to grow a character many people get bored with writing them because the experience is static. If you can manage that plateau of a writing experience than fine, but a lot of people can't maintain a good interest level, which is what I'm focused on. It's not that you can't write for a long time as a static character, it's that many people won't. That's why I said that in a vacuum I have no issue with a polished, more or less static character. However I believe that a character with vast room to grow is better for RP lifespan because it gives people a goal to work towards.

If you can't buy that then ok, no big deal but that's my stance.

I didn't say your stance was anything different from what you are saying now. What I did say is that your stance tackles a problem that is real, but ultimately just a facet of a larger problem. Like, what you are saying is not about skill. But what I am saying is that one of the problems at the root of the problem you talk about in this thread does have to do with player skill, and more specifically with a lack of awareness of what oneself is capable of. Yeah, the person will grow bored of the static character, but ultimately the bigger problem is what made that character static in the first place, the player trying to make a character they don't know how to work with.

 

[Daisie]

I agree. Going into this thread, I expected you to put the blame of non-evolving characters on the CS. But in reality, you can have practically any CS and still have that character grow over time. It's the writer that's the issue.

Seeing characters grow, in my opinion, is one of the best parts of the roleplay. Seeing your character evolve very slowly over time is the most amazing feeling in the world - mostly because you're actually growing with them. As time passes, you feel like you're growing up together, and if you restrict your character from growing, you don't get that experience.

Also...

my grammer skills are fine they can all learn to accept me as i am or help me improve quit being grammer snobs.

Something odd I've noticed. Your grammar in posts like this is flawed. I'm not meaning that as an insult, but we can all agree that's true. However, in places like this, it's perfectly fine....

PineValley Academy HS Drama ( Open and Accepting)

Why don't you do this all the time? Everywhere you go?

 

[loveablelorrie]

I don't understand what you mean

 

[Daisie]

I don't understand what you mean

In the thread I linked to above, your grammar seems fine, but in many of the posts displayed in this current thread, you seem to lack capitalization, commas, and a few words are misspelled. I'm just curious as to why this is.

 

[Purple Kitti]

I think "static" characters can be good for short-term RPs, but if you're going to play for a lengthy time, definitely get in some character growth! There are fiction series (TV, books) that feature static heroes that don't really experience a whole lot of growth, because all the action around that character is very fast-paced. But generally speaking, character growth is very necessary in good storytelling.

I hate extensive profile skeletons that require me to know every darn little detail about my character, such as favorite food, how skilled they are at each little thing, etc. I am so much an improviser when it comes to writing, I would really rather just have a quick description and go. I'm good with ten or so personality points, but laundry lists are too much for me. If I'm forced to write so many details about my character it feels like I'm already done playing that character. I've had two or three characters die during character creation alone and never even made the first post in an RP before. @_@

 

[Thalia_Neko]

Didnt read the whole thread, but i did read the opening

I totally agree with this.

However, I often do the inverse of this. I like making chars who are "extremely badass" out the gate, that seem strong on the surface. But thats just it, on the surface they're strong. But in reality, end up having the most to grow. So when they realize that in char, it brings their world crashing down. Its a fun inverse of the trope.

 

[Hex3]

Thanks for reminding me. People forget that the journey is the fun part, not just the destination!

 

[BackSet]

Ah. I have a complex relationship with this. I do indeed make what appear to be "finished" characters. But they're only "finished" on the surface. My character constantly changes and molds as I find the right footing for them. Post 1 may be different from post 5 because I realized that I liked this direction better than my original one.

 

[adrian_]

 

[Kaerri]

I think there's also a difference between "improve" and "change." Most people seem to mean the first when they say "growth," but characters, just like people, can grow in any direction. A seemingly perfect character can "grow" without improving or falling, just by going in a different direction from the one originally planned. Most of my characters are "finished" only in the sense that they are ready to be played when the RP starts, not in the sense that they will never change -- and frequently they change in ways I never expected or planned for because of what they experience during the RP. For me, that's part of the fun of roleplaying.

 

[MechanicalSnake]

Just stopping to say I cannot like this enough.