News & Updates Regarding Omegaverse/ABO

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If you are here, this means you have clicked on the alert to find out more about the rule update specifically for Omegaverse/ABO. We have officially forbidden this genre from RpNation;

The Omegaverse/ABO genre is sexually explicit. If you wish to use the non-sexual social dynamics you can use alternative terms to express that. Some options include social hierarchy, dominance hierarchy, and caste system.

This decision wasn't made hastily and we want to be clear that we are forbidding this genre because at its core and focus it is an erotic genre. We know there are those who are interested in the social dynamics of this genre, but the problem is that we cannot clearly determine between someone using the term sexually or non-sexually.

If you have any suggestions for what a non-sexual Omegaverse term could be let us know. Create your own new genre! We want to work with you to keep our users and site safe!

EDIT: You are more than welcome to continue using terms such as alpha, beta, omega as those are social/caste/dominance hierarchy terms and not exclusive to Omegaverse.
 
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nerdy tangents

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I don't really think it's comparable since kinks by their very nature are sexual and this site forbids explicitly sexual content, hence my suggestion to use other sites if people are into that kind of thing in their stories.

It is not a kink. That was my point. It is a SETTING. The same way history is a setting.

So in the same way you are not going to automatically assume History = Racism just because some stories within that setting are racist.

It’s unfair to assume something set in the Omegaverse is a kink just because their are kinky elements to specific stories.

I mean you would be far better off just saying “ Don’t write sexual acts or MPREG” because that seems to be the actual issue at hand, not the setting of the Omegaverse.

Which is exactly the problem in just being like “Eww this thing I don’t know anything about and only Googled once seems sexual so I’m going to be mean and snobby to people who like to write it.” Which is exactly what a lot of the discord devolved into.

No one is out here saying RPN should allow kink. They are only saying that labeling an entire setting kink and then trying to play a semantic game after the fact is not helpful.

It’s far more helpful to list out the specific definition of erotic content then to be like “You can’t write in this setting except just kidding yes you can but only if you don’t add erotic content to it” (Especially since this is true for literally all the settings. It’s not a unique attribute to the Omegaverse. You can’t write erotic content about literally any setting as it’s against the site rules.)

It’s easier to just be like “Hey as a reminder we don’t allow erotic content such as X Y and Z on this site.”
 

Kaerri

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I don't really get the sense you read anything of what I said, just leapt to offended conclusions. If you want me to repeat myself, I suppose I could, but it might be better if you set aside your assumptions for a few minutes and reread my post.

If you did read my post and just chose to ignore or misinterpret everything in it, then I definitely don't see the need to repeat myself as the result will probably be the same.
 

nerdy tangents

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I don't really get the sense you read anything of what I said, just leapt to offended conclusions. If you want me to repeat myself, I suppose I could, but it might be better if you set aside your assumptions for a few minutes and reread my post.

If you did read my post and just chose to ignore or misinterpret everything in it, then I definitely don't see the need to repeat myself as the result will probably be the same.I

As a matter of fact no I did not see you post. I was responding directly to Jannah. Which is why I quoted her directly.

edit : My point is the idea seems to have been poorly explained from the jump. My first post in this thread specifically talked about how the staff were using terms unfamiliar to the fandom of Omegaverse/ABO. The follow up responses where largely around the semantics at play.

Which is my primary issue as it very much seems like instead of people specifying :

Hey just so we are all clear this specific thing is not okay.

It was an argument about 1. What term do we use for the setting that distinguishes it specifically from the erotic content we don’t want.

2. A lot of people assuming that erotic content in itself is the point of the setting and reacting rudely. I personally have had people come to me with ABO requests in the past that were very much for the setting itself not the kink.

But the problem is the new rule does not sufficiently differentiate between the two.

Which is really my whole problem. I personally can say “hey I don’t want to do any smut or include any kind of forced heat narratives in my stories because I think it’s gross.”

But I don’t believe it was sufficiently explained if that would be a Me rule or a site Rule.
 
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nerdy tangents

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To put it a different way here is my understanding of what the rule forbids :

Erotic content (??)
The term ABO and Omegaverse.

But so far as I understand things there is nothing to stop me from just being like :

So on Earth 3 there are three biological genders : Alphas (traditionally masculine), Betas (non-binary/intersex), and Omegas (traditionally feminine). These are there stories *Law and Order music*

Now where things get tricky is at what point am I going to report someone for making an Alpha, Beta, or Omega characters?

Is it when they break the “fade to black rule” is it when MPREG is brought in? Is it when non-com elements are brought in? Like at what point does it cross the line from

“Yeah you can write a story in whatever setting you want” to “this falls under erotic content and you need to report it to the Mods.”

Like I know where my own personal line is (and thankfully it’s usually stricter then the site anyway) but I also want to make sure I am reporting things properly when I do run across them.

As there is a big difference between “Hey this isn’t my cup of tea.” And “The site admin do not allow this content.”
 

Kaerri

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I see. Thank you for clarifying. I'll try to do the same. :)

But the problem is the new rule does not sufficiently differentiate between the two.

Which is really my whole problem. I personally can say “hey I don’t want to do any smut or include any kind of forced heat narratives in my stories because I think it’s gross.”

But I don’t believe it was sufficiently explained if that would be a Me rule or a site Rule.
The new rule, and this is a site-wide rule, is simply that the terms Omegaverse and A/B/O are not allowed. The reasoning behind that is that, as a genre (not setting, as any setting can be used, and indeed it started in fandoms), Omegaverse originated as and continues primarily to be a subgenre of erotica. I promise you, we did not come to that conclusion based on a single quick Google search, but upon looking up multiple sources and definitions. In the end, we concluded that Omegaverse and by association the specific term A/B/O are of themselves a violation of our already-existing "No ERP" rule. Because of the prevalence of people asking for Omegaverse RPs, we thought it would be helpful to specify in the rules that the genre was not allowed. As you know, ERP was already disallowed in general; long before this thread we had also included wording to clarify that sexual kinks, fetishes, and any sort of sexually explicit terms were equally disallowed. Including the specific mention of Omegaverse was intended as a clarification and example of that, and this thread was started to announce the addition publicly because we don't care for "stealth" rule changes.

Many people in this thread did indeed react strongly; I didn't take it as rude myself, but I can understand how someone of a different opinion and sensitive to wording could take it that way. If it helps, I doubt most people intended to be rude; it was my personal impression that the reaction was largely to the idea of erotica being so integrally involved in the genre to begin with, but that could be projecting since that was my first reaction when I started researching it.

To answer the "me rule" part of your question: anyone is free to specify what they aren't interested in as well as what they are, as long as nothing on the "yes" list violates the rules. (If something on the "no" list violates the rules, we may contact them to reassure them that specifically mentioning those isn't necessary here, but they won't be in trouble for it.) But this thread is about a site rule, not a personal rule.

But so far as I understand things there is nothing to stop me from just being like :

So on Earth 3 there are three biological genders : Alphas (traditionally masculine), Betas (non-binary/intersex), and Omegas (traditionally feminine). These are there stories *Law and Order music*
You are correct.

Now where things get tricky is at what point am I going to report someone for making an Alpha, Beta, or Omega characters?
From the initial post:
You are more than welcome to continue using terms such as alpha, beta, omega as those are social/caste/dominance hierarchy terms and not exclusive to Omegaverse.
Simply making an Alpha, Beta, or Omega (or starting a roleplay that includes those terms in nonsexual ways) is just fine.

Is it when they break the “fade to black rule” is it when MPREG is brought in? Is it when non-com elements are brought in? Like at what point does it cross the line from
- Failing to "fading to black," and/or describing sex acts, is definitely against the rules.
- Male pregnancy is not in itself against the rules, though of course one shouldn't get into the explicit details of conception if it occurred in a sexual manner.
- I'm guessing that by "non-com" you mean non-consensual sex; if not please let me know. Non-consensual sex is an iffy subject and and we tend to handle reports on it in a case-by-case basis. Taken alone, if it occurs in background, "off-screen," or any other way that implies or mentions but does not describe -- basically, if it follows site rules for sex in general -- it's not against the rules. However, as a trigger topic for many people, and an uncomfortable one for many others, if not handled carefully it can lead to a violation of the Respect section of the rules.

Simply put, the line is: when sexual acts are described, and when genitalia are described. This includes pictures as well as words.

As there is a big difference between “Hey this isn’t my cup of tea.” And “The site admin do not allow this content.”
Absolutely. There's lots of things I'm not personally interested in, but I'm not going to disallow them just because of that, nor am I going to disallow them if I happen to find them personally distasteful. That's just unfair. This rules addition was made after lengthy discussion involving multiple perspectives, lots of reviewing various Omegaverse sites (both for and against), and seeking out neutral definitions of what the genre is at its core, and does not rely on any person's feelings as to the value of it as a genre.
 

nerdy tangents

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And honestly that was my point. I don't have a problem with the site further offering clarification to it's erotic rules. If anything I find them to be overall somewhat ill-defined (but that's just a personal opinion). If only because I have had to go hunting for the original PSA that defines what is erotic content for this site multiple times. I will say that the PSA in itself is actually fairly comprehensive and I certainly wouldn't care if the ABO thing had simply been an addendum to that.

So I guess my point is less the ABO thing in itself and more the lack of a readily accessible definition of what erotica is in general. Unless I have just vastly overlooked it there isn't actually one outside of that really old PSA is there? And I am not confident I could find that again (the last time I searched for it was over a year ago).

So that was sort of my core issue. It seems a little inefficient to clarify the rules on a case by case manner when you could just make a unified list of what is erotica available and add to it as needed. I guess somewhat like how we have the prefix list? (In a different section obviously). That way people can just look at one post and be like "Okay so this is against the rules, that I should probably ask the Staff about, and oh hey they haven't mentioned this other thing at all."
 

Kaerri

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The no-ERP rule begins, "RpNation is NOT a PG-13 rated site, but does cater to users who are under the age of 18. As such, users are prohibited from posting, encouraging, or requesting any explicit erotic content; both written words and media. Sexual roleplaying (smut, erotic roleplay) is not permitted and strictly prohibited from all RpNation web space, including private messages and the private workshop." Addendums and clarifications follow, but we thought that would be enough to give a general understanding. Also, while long-term users may not know this, some time ago we implemented a checkbox when a new user is registering their account. This box has to be checked or they won't be allowed in. Granted, lots of people probably just check without reading and move on, but for those who did read it, it should be pretty clear right there:
Screenshot 2021-12-06 190623.png

In general, if it looks like sex is going to be described, that's against the rules. If someone has a question (about this or any other rule), they are always free to ask without repercussion in Staff Contact. I do understand that some people might not have understood sex was inherent to Omegaverse (frankly, if so then I can't believe they've ever Googled it, but not everyone will or does). That's one of the reasons for this thread and announcement: to make it clear to those who might not have understood.

It is inefficient to add various examples of erotica one at a time, and we probably won't make a habit of it. I do see your point that a list might be more helpful than just singling out one particular example, but I don't really want to make a list, myself, as that would require us to keep it maintained, and that would require doing research to keep current in a topic that isn't even allowed on the site and in which I believe most of the staff are rather disinterested in general. (Which disinterest doesn't prevent us from doing said research if it seems necessary for the site, of course, but we have a lot of other needs to spend our time on.) Besides which, we'd much rather people be focused on what they can do than what they can't. One of the other reasons we chose to be specific about Omegaverse was because there's been a rising trend in people looking for it, so we felt the need to address it specifically. (Sort of like the way certain very popular fandoms have tags, while less popular ones don't -- things which are popular get more attention, here as in offline life.)
 

The Dark Wizard

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Everything Kaerri Kaerri has said and:

We are not banning the use of the words "Alpha" and "Beta" and such on their own. Werewolf roleplays and pack dynamics are not inherently sexual in nature. From the amazing free forms to those that love RPs based on Netflix's The Order (I think this is a refreshing take on werewolves that I liked) to Werewolf the Apocalypse from World of Darkness and so forth, they all work and are allowed here on RpN. We continue to allow the exploration of social dynamics and in and out of werewolf RPs.

I mean RpN is not a PG13 site, we allow various adult topics ranging from violence, drugs, to sensitive historical topics and more. I mean, believe it or not, people nonsexual Master x Slave RPs, particularly modeled after Anime Maid girls and such. We just don't allow sexual content like ERPing, Media (pictures and so forth), and descriptions of the actual act of sex.

Omegaverse AS a genre has elements that explore social dynamics but usually as a supporting element to the fact that Omegaverse usually has Betas or Omegas exist solely to get impregnated and give birth for the alpha. This typically can include Male Pregnancy.

Suggesting that Omegaverse as a whole is not a Kink or Sexual in Nature because it has other elements of social dynamics and pack hierarchy is disingenuous. Here at RpN, we follow Genres and other writing guidelines as accepted by the general English Speaking Literary space and this typically includes various dictionaries and their respective organizations, the NaNoWriMo community and the various American/British Writing Colleges. While I'm not going to point you to any exact reference, you can google it yourself. We could have just added it into the rules (I believe we did) and the PSA and just left it at that, but we typically make an announcement for rule changes, regardless of how small they are, so it doesn't catch anyone by surprise. I mean people aren't regularly checking that document to see if we've made changes.
 

nerdy tangents

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Well as I said at the beginning, Omegaverse in fanfiction isn't actually inherently sexual so it's entirely possible to miss that if you are just writing platonic stories and don't venture into erotic sections of fanfiction. My point was more that "sexual content" is kind of a vague term in itself.

I might define sexual content as anything involving kissing, removing of clothes, arousal, etc. Other people might simply draw the line at overt descriptions of genitals. Still others would define it as the explicit writing out of sexual acts. But we would all be like "oh this is sexual content and therefore I need to report it."

So even if you just made a general post with some basic clarifications to sort of give a range of what you mean by sexual acts. "like hey guys just a reminder you cannot write out explicit sexual acts or describe genitals. you can however have kissing or fade to black (or whatever the actual range is.)"

That way people have a jumping off point that we all agree on and individuals can expand on that as needed when things come up.
 

The Dark Wizard

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Omegaverse in fanfiction isn't actually inherently sexual

But it is.

My point was more that "sexual content" is kind of a vague term in itself.

But it's not.

I might define sexual content as anything involving kissing, removing of clothes, arousal,

But we aren't going off your definition. We are going off the definition as set by the rules of RpN. Rules that we model off of the general writing world. I like to think we don't makeup what genres are.


Other people might simply draw the line at overt descriptions of genitals. Still others would define it as the explicit writing out of sexual acts. But we would all be like "oh this is sexual content and therefore I need to report it."

For the most part, most people tend to report things that they consider sexual and it seems to be pretty consistent with what I expect people to think is sexual content. The Western World and even eastern parts of Europe have grown up with various levels of nudity in various forms of entertainment from books to movies and the sort.

For example, content rated for Teenagers can have people naked in it and you might see a side boob or a dude's butt or even hear references to someone having a huge package but when it comes to the actual act, that is where the line is drawn and is considered Sexual Content for the audience. If you want to describe how someone's gentilia seems large when he comes out of the pool naked go for it. Want to tell us that some woman's boobs are bountiful and bouncy? Go for it.

But when you start getting into extreme detail about it, then you start getting into erotic territory.

So even if you just made a general post with some basic clarifications to sort of give a range of what you mean by sexual acts. "like hey guys just a reminder you cannot write out explicit sexual acts or describe genitals. you can however have kissing or fade to black (or whatever the actual range is.)"

I'm sure instructing people to go to Fade to Black for the act of sex is enough. When we start making lists of things, that is when things start going wrong.

That way people have a jumping off point that we all agree on and individuals can expand on that as needed when things come up.

See my above point.
 

nerdy tangents

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The Dark Wizard The Dark Wizard where does it say fade to black? I just saw that it defined "sexual acts" as taboo not that it said fade to black. If anything the closest it gets is that you can't mention kinks and fetishes. But no where in the rules does it say specifically "please use fade to black when it comes to describing sexual content"

That is all I'm saying. Like fine it's all well and good to say "no kinks or fetishes, and no ABO." But it would be nice to also say explicitly somewhere "hey just fade to black when it comes to sexual content." Especially in the Rules at the very least.

Also I don't appreciate being called a liar about my own experience in fanfiction. Nor do I appreciate being called a liar when I say that there are people who do not know that content is inherently kinky. As not only do I have my own personal experience I have spoken to people who share that lack of knowledge.

Maybe that isn't a common perspective but it is a truthful one. And it's a little rude to assume that I'm just making something up.
 

FaithWynters

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Hi nerdy tangents nerdy tangents !

I'd like to direct you to our Community Guidelines for a second.
Erotic Content and Extreme Gore
RpNation is NOT a PG-13 rated site, but does cater to users who are under the age of 18. As such, users are prohibited from posting, encouraging, or requesting any explicit erotic content; both written words and media. Sexual roleplaying (smut, erotic roleplay) is not permitted and strictly prohibited from all RpNation web space, including private messages and the private workshop.

Users are also forbidden from using RpNation to solicit, imply, instruct, or lure others offsite to conduct erotic roleplay or share erotic content.

Mentions of kinks, fetishes, or sexual terms are subject to be removed and at risk of also receiving warnings.

The Omegaverse/ABO genre is sexually explicit. If you wish to use the non-sexual social dynamics you can use alternative terms to express that. Some options include social hierarchy, dominance hierarchy, and caste system.

Extreme written descriptions or media (photographic media, animated media, videos) of gore or violence are not allowed. Illustrated gore or violence can be posted, but must be placed within a spoiler BBCode tag.

Users are discouraged from making 'wall virginity' posts (i.e. posting on a user's profile with "I've stolen your wall virginity!" or other sexual references).

That should be your 'jumping off' point if you have any concerns about the guidelines for erotic content on the RpN. "Smut and erotic roleplay" are not allowed. "Kinks, fetishes, or sexual terms are subject to be removed and at risk of...warnings." We are explicit about Omegaverse and give you alternatives of ways to express the social hierarchies that you are looking for within the guidelines because it has seen use lately. I will not google Omegaverse for you, but if you'd like to do additional research, you'll find that the term originated in erotica. You have to type one word into Google and hit enter to see that. (I would suggest you go into incognito browser though 😉). We don't explicitly say fade to black because there are plenty of acceptable ways to skip scenes. If you check out the interest sections on the site, almost say either A) no sexytimes™️ or B) FTB or an alternative. For many, it's understood, but we're happy to clarify as needed. We're not going to tell you how to write your roleplays, we're just telling you sexytimes™️ aren't allowed. If you have questions or concerns that any content on the site would violate the above rules, report it. If it does, great job! You helped the moderation team keep everyone rule-abiding! If it doesn't, then thank you for ensuring we keep the site rule-abiding!

What happens when we start explicitly defining what is and isn't sexual:
  • You potentially give minors a curated list of the exact terms we're trying to keep out of their view. Do you know what they can do then? Google all of them! And learn about all of them! Which defeats the point!
    • Faith's currently in the time of her life where she's thinking about having cute little babies that she wouldn't want to see that sort of stuff when they get old enough to use the internet on a website that allows minors their age. We've opted to protect Faith's metaphorical 13+ year old babies by giving them a place where they don't find themselves potentially interacting with content that falls in that gray area. Whether someone knew it originated in erotic fiction or not does not change that it originated in erotic fiction.
  • We would still have to continually moderate, maintain, and extend the list of acceptable and unacceptable gray areas. We have to manually discuss and moderate reported content so making the list was a waste of time in the first place because we still have to review and act upon it.
  • People use those defined rules to skirt them.

Overall, don't write sexytimes™️ on this website. If you're concerned something falls on the sexytime™️ scale, report it and we'd be happy to review it. For the sake of my metaphorical babies and everyone that comes to this site to enjoy it and have a good time, our rules are not up for debate.

P.S. This represents my views alone. 😊
 
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The Dark Wizard

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But no where in the rules does it say specifically "please use fade to black when it comes to describing sexual content"

As FaithWynters FaithWynters posted, we don't need to detail every single possible thing a user can do. If we don't allow Explicit Sexual Content, then it stands to reason that you can use Fade to Black or other methods to not have explicit details of sex while still conveying the meaning of your scene/post.

Also I don't appreciate being called a liar about my own experience in fanfiction. Nor do I appreciate being called a liar when I say that there are people who do not know that content is inherently kinky. As not only do I have my own personal experience I have spoken to people who share that lack of knowledge.

I apologize for saying that it was disingenuous. I used that word more in the sense that it wasn't true, I did not mean to imply that you were maliciously fabricating a lie.

However, Omegaverse not being sexual in nature is factually incorrect.

It can't be Omegaverse without a combination or certain elements which is why people seeking ERPs look for it or why it's popular on other sites or as a popular form of fanfiction. You can have things like werewolves, social hierarchy dynamics and even use words like Alphas and Betas and stuff. Heck if you want a RP where males get pregnant on RpN, all the power to you.

However, you can't have Omegaverse without things like Knotting (google at your own risk). Characters that only exist to be impregnated by their Alphas and enter in cycles of heat and various other elements that are explicitly erotic in nature.

Some elements in Omegaverse are allowed on RpN. As a whole when some of them come together however to form what is expected of the Omegaverse genre as a complete concept, however, are not allowed.


The reason why this thread was made in the first place was:

- Silent changes to the rules are not cool. No one is constantly looking at the rules and we didn't want anyone to get caught by surprise.


I am hoping that us not locking this thread is a sign of good faith, since we are always open to criticism and feedback on things we do, but I worry that I sometimes come off as harsh. However, I don't understand what you are trying to debate or protect here.

  • Omegaverse is inherently sexual, this is an immutable fact.
  • I understand your comments about being more precise, but the Rules are pretty clear. They don't need to explicitly say to Fade to Black if Erotic Roleplaying is not allowed. We've been telling that to users in staff contact, community posts like this one and in every public space possible since 2008. Just seems like common sense to me.
  • If we start making lists and such, things start breaking down quickly from either being too strict or impossible to enforce. This is a really big site. If you really want to suggest rule changes and clarification in great detail, then you should read them here: RpNation: Community Guidelines and then make a thread separately for this concern with as much detail as possible on what you want to be changed and why.
 

N30NL4Z3R

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I'm sorry for accidently reviving this thread for a simple question that may or not be uncomfortable for some but is the act of both biological genders capable of having Children something against the rules given that is a concept commonly in this universe? As I don't wish to use something possibly bad in regards to rules ;w; Also I understand the ruling against this AU given the stuff I have read and seen are very, very 'different' when it comes to the subject material.
 

The Dark Wizard

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I'm sorry for accidently reviving this thread for a simple question that may or not be uncomfortable for some but is the act of both biological genders capable of having Children something against the rules given that is a concept commonly in this universe? As I don't wish to use something possibly bad in regards to rules ;w; Also I understand the ruling against this AU given the stuff I have read and seen are very, very 'different' when it comes to the subject material.
Hey,

We and the community guidelines are not against characters and RPs that explore gender(s), the idea that other genders can give pregnancy and such, you want to RP an alien or a human or anything of that nature? Go ahead.

We have, however, banned searching for Omegaverse specifically not because males get pregnant, but because the whole genre as a whole is about sex. It's not Omegaverse without sex. It is an inherently a topic that led to ERP, and it was like 90 percent of our ERP reports for a long while. You can read more about it here: Omegaverse - Wikipedia

In short, no, characters having children outside their biological nature, whether human, alien, or some other fictional being, is not against our rules.
 

N30NL4Z3R

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Thank you for responding! I am grateful to know that this sort of concept isn't considered against the rules as I was thinking of doing something with underlying qualities of that and didn't wish to do anything wrong! Also, I understand that AU is primarily focused in that sort of stuff so I can see why it is not allowed on here since it is primarily adult.
 

Ambra

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As much as I understand your reasoning for prohibiting ERP on this site, I have to say that I don't think you guys can control such a thing. Imo, I don't see the appeal of ERP, but saying "no ERP at all" is kinda counterintuitive. There's always going to be people that go to DMs to write it; there's always going to be loopholes for such a thing because it's just so massively popular in the roleplay world. Why don't you guys promote awareness instead? State that adults cannot ERP with minors, or do as Iwaku did and have certain ERP forums blocked from people that are underaged or 18+?

To me, "no ERPing allowed" is equated to "Don't have sex before marriage or before you're 18" when you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.
 

Jannah

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As much as I understand your reasoning for prohibiting ERP on this site, I have to say that I don't think you guys can control such a thing. Imo, I don't see the appeal of ERP, but saying "no ERP at all" is kinda counterintuitive. There's always going to be people that go to DMs to write it; there's always going to be loopholes for such a thing because it's just so massively popular in the roleplay world. Why don't you guys promote awareness instead? State that adults cannot ERP with minors, or do as Iwaku did and have certain ERP forums blocked from people that are underaged or 18+?

To me, "no ERPing allowed" is equated to "Don't have sex before marriage or before you're 18" when you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.
Their reasoning for disallowing it iirc is basically due to all the legal issues it could create, especially if minors are involved. Plus staff can still see PM's. They don't snoop typically, but if they receive a report then they will take a look.
 

The Dark Wizard

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As much as I understand your reasoning for prohibiting ERP on this site, I have to say that I don't think you guys can control such a thing. Imo, I don't see the appeal of ERP, but saying "no ERP at all" is kinda counterintuitive. There's always going to be people that go to DMs to write it; there's always going to be loopholes for such a thing because it's just so massively popular in the roleplay world. Why don't you guys promote awareness instead? State that adults cannot ERP with minors, or do as Iwaku did and have certain ERP forums blocked from people that are underaged or 18+?

To me, "no ERPing allowed" is equated to "Don't have sex before marriage or before you're 18" when you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.

What people do outside RpNation is not our business. It is against our rules to ERP on the platform, and that includes DMs. We regularly get reports from users who are propositioned for ERP in DMs, and then we take appropriate action when it's presented to us. We are one of the largest sites around for RPing and part of the reason that has happened over the last decade is for our reputation to keep people safe and the site clean.

I do not agree and neither do most people I've discussed this with, and that includes the user-base when we receive feedback on this topic, that ERPing is intrinsicly tied to RPing. There are so many Roleplays on the site that don't involve around sex, then there are things like DnD, etc.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not a prude, I don't have an issue with people getting sexy outside of our webspaces, if that's something they want to do, they just can't recruit for it here. The reason for that is legal. Using Iwaku as an example is a poor example. They are a site run by some great people, some who I've had the pleasure of speaking to and knowing, but here's the situation on their site from the prospective of lawyers we've spoken to since 2008.

Seperating the Adult Content from minors is iffy at best. However, in the USA, in a lot of our archaic states, minors sexting each other, engaging in intimate acts in real life, and stuff is still "illegal" because minors can't consent. That's' not our fault, that's old laws being still revenant today in many states. The fact that Iwaku allows minors to ERP with minors (since they had a section for adults to ERP with adults and one with minors and just minors) is not great legally, not including any moral philosophical debates. Every day one wakes up, allowing that on a site as it grows, is basically rolling the dice every day to see when you are inevitably going to get a legal notice.

I understand this is not the case in other countries, particularly in parts of Europeon, but the site and I are unfortunately not situated there.

I've seen people around the internet that RPing is no different then reading an erotica or a mature fanfic, but that is also legally incorrect. Reading something that someone wrote on say something like AO3 is not the same as replying to a post (hence where the sexting aspect part comes in). ERPing requires a human interaction.

If you'd like to ERP, you can always go to Iwaku or one of the other sites that also provide that content.
 

poison goth

spoingus
Roleplay Availability
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As much as I understand your reasoning for prohibiting ERP on this site, I have to say that I don't think you guys can control such a thing. Imo, I don't see the appeal of ERP, but saying "no ERP at all" is kinda counterintuitive. There's always going to be people that go to DMs to write it; there's always going to be loopholes for such a thing because it's just so massively popular in the roleplay world. Why don't you guys promote awareness instead? State that adults cannot ERP with minors, or do as Iwaku did and have certain ERP forums blocked from people that are underaged or 18+?

To me, "no ERPing allowed" is equated to "Don't have sex before marriage or before you're 18" when you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.
i get what you're saying, but it's not as easy as simply stating "hey, don't erp with minors" and then allowing erp. that's never (never) going to immediately stop some creep from creeping on some kid, or some kid from lying about their age and probably doing some significant damage to their mental health, whether they realize it or not. you can't trust predators to not be predators online, and you can't give kids the responsibility to protect themselves. it's irresponsible.

besides, there is an abundance of forums that allow erp. just because rpn doesn't, doesn't mean it's gonna be impossible for consenting adults to find a place to do that. and yeah of course, there's always gonna be people trying to find loopholes, this is the internet- you can't control everything, but i completely get staff doing their best to protect users under eighteen on here. like someone else said, it's a legal issue. if some kid gets (a certain word that starts with g) on here and authorities begin to look into it, it'd be safer for the staff to either make this a strictly 18 and above website or for the staff to ban erp outright.

sorry for the small rant, but tl;dr, just because it's not gonna entirely fix the problem, doesn't mean someone doesn't have the right to do something about it.
 

Ghan

Network/Server Admin
Administrator
you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.

We are not your parents. This topic is none of our business, it's risky to make it so, and the staff will take no position on such topics. It's not our job to promote or challenge certain views. Our job is to create as open a space as possible for wide audiences, and our rules are designed to walk a fine line of "societal norms" that sometimes don't meet with universal approval. It's OK if you think that we are too strict, because that means we're probably achieving exactly what we want. We'd rather err on the side of being slightly too restricted than slightly too open.
 

GojiBean

That One Fear In My Enemy's Eyes
Moderator
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To me, "no ERPing allowed" is equated to "Don't have sex before marriage or before you're 18" when you should instead be promoting the use of contraception, safe sex, and consent.

I can't say I see the logic of your comparison given that it's a total contradiction.

"No ERP," "no sex before marriage," and "no sex before you're 18" are all directly in line with and in support of the concepts of contraception, safe sex, and consent. It might not feel like it because of the verbiage or your personal experience with where you heard these phrases, or who from. But when you analyze it objectively, "no sex before marriage" and "no sex before you're 18" outright are forms of verbal contraception. In fact, they're not much different from parents sitting their kids down to tell them about the dangers that come from unsafe sex, and how their lives could be upended by the practice in an effort to help them think and act more responsibly in the future. The message from both is, "Don't have sex before you're ready."

In the world of creative writing, it's called subtext. Maybe you know what subtext is. Maybe you don't. For those who don't, subtext is the unspoken message hidden behind and in between the words that are used and shared. For example, if someone who just lost their father to cancer says "I'm fine" when their friend asks if they're okay, are they actually okay? No. The subtext is "I'm NOT fine, but I don't want my friend to worry about me. I'll deal with the pain on my own and do my best to make sure my friend stays happy." It's never said out loud, but it's as clear as the sky on a cloudless day in Summer.

"No sex before marriage" carries the subtext of "wait until you're married and have the support of a spouse before you think about doing anything to start a family."

"No sex before you're 18" carries the subtext of "you should wait until you're an adult and have the mental, emotional, and financial maturity and stability to satisfy the needs that come with having a family."

Different verbiage, same message. Again, your personal experience with the phrases may vary with respect to where you heard them, and from whom you heard them. But this is the objective, unbiased analysis of the phrases taken as presented in your post.

Same with our "No ERP" rule. It's our way of (at least in our public spaces) preventing anyone from engaging in unsafe or unwanted sexual communications or character interactions. If things become unsafe or unwanted in DM's, what do you think happens? They typically (though not always) get reported and RPNation Staff get involved to right the wrongs as swiftly as possible. While maybe more reactive than you'd like, this is also in line with your message.

So, where's the problem, exactly?

On top of skirting our rules and trying to be sneaky in DM's, users who want to ERP have the entire internet to find ERP sites and forums to indulge that hobby with other like-minded folks. RPNation isn't locking anyone down here and saying "if you ERP on other sites, you're banned." Users who want ERP are free to engage the hobby elsewhere on the net where appropriate. But when they come back to RPNation they're expected to abide by our rules and keep all sexual content behind the curtain of a fade to black. Simple as that.

"Why don't you guys promote awareness instead?"

That's neither our job, nor our obligation.

RPNation is a creative space where people come to escape reality. Not force themselves to continue confronting it.

If you want to be gung ho about pushing for contraception, safe sex, and consent, do it in spaces where it's appropriate.

Unless it happens within the context of an ongoing roleplay where your character's views are genuinely the same as your own, and it fits within the intended storyline of the RP, as well as your character's arc within it, RPNation is not that space.

Thank you.
 
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