Questions & Comments

Musician said:
The size of your text won't change my mind.  The idea behind voting for proposals doesn't just mean how many out of 3 people actually like it.  It also matters whether there is a general interest for the project.  If people are not interested enough in an idea to even vote, it seems like a waste of time and energy.  There has to be a substantial amount of overall interest for the numbers to take effect.
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Did my text look bigger on your screen?


If a proposal passes, only those who are interested have to participate, therefore it is not a waste of anything. The system we have now is very flawed and unrepresentative. 


I have another idea. How about we propose projects in the form of interest checks? Anyone who's interested will say they are in the thread, anyone who is uninterested won't. Then, after a certain amount of time, everyone who is interested will do the project.




ApfelSeine said:
I don't think that the majority of people feel that they can't get a proposal passed. Rather, I think they just don't have any ideas (or want to get those ideas really solid before putting them forward). That's at least the case for me, but I don't think I'm alone in that. We've done a couple projects already, and passed proposals before. We know it's possible to do, but I think we also have rather firm ideas of what is worthwhile to do. That differs from person to person, but overall we've gotten proposals passed and completed, and I think there is an understanding that a successful proposal should be something people feel passionate about or feel would be helpful to the site.
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White Masquerade said:
Not at all. I only want to say we have 20 members and 60% of that is 12. Having 12 people support this is unlikely. I don't want you to waste your time and energy. Most are hidden, but we had about 8-10 proposals already. Only two passed so far. Those are very bad odds. Suggesting something personal, makes them even worse. Ideas need to be broad, helpful, and applicable to everyone. Anything else just won't cut it.
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@Riuma I actually disagree with White in regard to the odds of passing an idea. That's not to say I think that passing an idea is easy or that the odds are particularly good, but rather I think that it's very easy to see the trend of the types of things that people want to do in this group. Namely, broadly helpful projects that have very clear goals and a specific plan. I'll break it down more specifically to show you what I mean

  1. Reintro for BBcode - Plan to bring back BBcode. Dismissed because it's impossible.
  2. Article About Opinions of Site Themes - A collection of thoughts on the new themes. Completed as a personal project.
  3. Welcome Day - A day to welcome new members/advertise the group to people in the introduction thread. Good idea, but concerns were raised that every member concentrating their efforts on a single day might be overwhelming. 4 in favor, 1 opposed (of those who voted)
  4. GM guide - A guide on how to properly and effectively GM. Passed with 9 in favor.
  5. RP Support Group - A project to give help to small rps in terms of plot creation and technical support. Many were on the fence about this because it might be intrusive or because of uncertainty about how much dedication would be required to the rps being helped. 4 in favor, 0 opposed (many abstaining because of uncertainty, and the project was later proposed again and passed).
  6. Story Mode's Sweetheart - A vote to essentially determine who is the MVP/best liked of the group. 6 in favor, 2 opposed (of those who voted).
  7. RPN Etiquette - A guide to (somehow) improve the etiquette of rpers on this site. 3 in favor, 0 opposed (of those who voted).
  8. Ancient Blood - Idea for a fantasy rp (which the GM wanted some help on). 5 in favor, 3 opposed. Continued as a personal project.
  9. Fandom Lore Compilation - An ambitious project to compile lore on various popular fandoms. (7 in favor, 1 opposed).
  10. Growing a Tree - A project revisiting the idea of a rp support group, but on a smaller and more targeted scale with specific time parameters on how often one will have to help. Passed with 11 in favor.
  11. Everything One Needs to Know about RPN - A guide compiling information about the site, and linking to helpful tutorials. Ambitious and somewhat subjective. 2 in favor, 4 opposed (of those who voted).

Considering that one of these ideas was reintroduced and later passed, this brings the current status quo to 2/10 proposals passed. Out of the 8 which were not passed, 2 were continued as personal projects, bringing the odds to 4/10 that a project is successfully completed (or a 40% chance of success). If we remove the outliers of "Reintro for BBcode" (which was impossible) and RPN Etiquette (a good sentiment but no specific plan was proposed), then those odds are 4/8, or 50%.


To break it down again:

  • 20% chance that any given proposal will pass
  • 25% chance any feasible proposal will pass
  • 40% chance a project will be successfully completed
  • 50% chance a feasible project will be successfully completed



There is a 25% chance that a proposal that is possible to complete will pass, which isn't great, but it isn't impossible either. Chances improve significantly depending both on the idea itself, and upon how it is presented. Many projects can still be completed even without the support of the group, and some of those who did voice support may even still be willing to help (though they also can change their minds). The ideas that haven't passed can also be proposed again. However, most of the ones which have not passed need to be amended with a more defined goal and a clearer plan. (Note: to reintroduce a project idea, permission must be obtained from a founding member after 1 month has passed. See the "Making A Proposal" thread for more details.)


Just to throw one last statistic out there (because I'm having fun playing with numbers), I consider only 6 to have been proposed in a way that made it clear how the project would be achieved. Of those 6, there were 3 which were both broadly helpful to the site and did not raise any practical concerns which were not addressed by the person proposing the idea. Thus, my view is not that the chances of success are 20%. Rather, I consider that a well formulated idea has a 2/3 chance of passing (67%), meaning that if ideas are revisited and proposed in a manner which specifically outlines what the goals of the project are and how they will be accomplished, the odds of success for them are 67%. One need only look at how one of the ideas was reformulated into a specific plan that passed the second time around to see why I'm more optimistic about proposals getting passed.
 
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ApfelSeine said:
To break it down again:

  • 20% chance that any given proposal will pass
  • 25% chance any feasible proposal will pass
  • 40% chance a project will be successfully completed
  • 50% chance a feasible project will be successfully completed
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You forgot Progressive Writing Group! Also, since I'm assuming you're pulling these from memory, we can have @White Masquerade list us the projects that have happened (since they can see hidden posts) to see if you missed anything. 
 
Riuma said:
You forgot Progressive Writing Group! Also, since I'm assuming you're pulling these from memory, we can have @White Masquerade list us the projects that have happened (since they can see hidden posts) to see if you missed anything. 
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Nothing was missed. Apfel is one of the moderators for the group so can see everything. There are about 10 of us able to do so.
 
I didn't list it because it wasn't locked from what I could see. So I didn't count it among the proposals that have been passed/denied. Additionally, some I gave abbreviated names to in order to better illustrate the goal. I don't think that particular project was among the archived ones though, which is why it wasn't included.


Edit: It is indeed locked, but not hidden so I overlooked it. The statistics I've reached should still be applicable though. More or less anyways. And still my personal view of the likelihood of passing an idea.
 
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ApfelSeine said:
I didn't list it because it wasn't locked from what I could see. So I didn't count it among the proposals that have been passed/denied. Additionally, some I gave abbreviated names to in order to better illustrate the goal. I don't think that particular project was among the archived ones though, which is why it wasn't included.


Edit: It is indeed locked, but not hidden so I overlooked it. The statistics I've reached should still be applicable though. More or less anyways. And still my personal view of the likelihood of paying an idea.
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No worries, that's on me. I unhid it to let Riuma look at it for a while. It will go back to normal soon.
 
Soo...I think my primary reason for joining was for finding out what this hosted project is actually about.
 
Captain Gensokyo said:
I know, I know! It wouldn't hurt to get informed, though, because I can't find the explanation for this hosted project.


@White Masquerade
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Nice, this is why we have you. There is certainly no place where you can find an explanation for the group. Will do something about that in the future.


Basically, this group is one place where seriously interested in RP/Writing and a combination of it can come together. The site as a whole, has people here for many reasons: Drawing, Chatting, Discussing, etc. That why you see General Discussion, Game Forum, Art Forum and the like.


This group here, is specifically for those who have an interest in active role-playing, RP Theory, GMing and everything that comes with it. We do have an OOC-like area, but that's just to distress an get to know one another. The Main function of the group is to come up with ideas that would advance roleplay, be fun, or help others on the site/the site itself. The draw is that you have people here with pretty much the same goal/interest as you. Everyone here does want to do what I mentioned before. This is why if you suggest an idea for the group to do that really has nothing to do with RP or helping the site, it simply won't pass. I'll tell you that beforehand.


So think of this group as a...resource? A gang? An alliance? If there's something you could never do by yourself or RP, you can come to us and see if it'd be possible to link together and help you out.
 
White Masquerade said:
Nice, this is why we have you. There is certainly no place where you can find an explanation for the group. Will do something about that in the future.


Basically, this group is one place where seriously interested in RP/Writing and a combination of it can come together. The site as a whole, has people here for many reasons: Drawing, Chatting, Discussing, etc. That why you see General Discussion, Game Forum, Art Forum and the like.


This group here, is specifically for those who have an interest in active role-playing, RP Theory, GMing and everything that comes with it. We do have an OOC-like area, but that's just to distress an get to know one another. The Main function of the group is to come up with ideas that would advance roleplay, be fun, or help others on the site/the site itself. The draw is that you have people here with pretty much the same goal/interest as you. Everyone here does want to do what I mentioned before. This is why if you suggest an idea for the group to do that really has nothing to do with RP or helping the site, it simply won't pass. I'll tell you that beforehand.


So think of this group as a...resource? A gang? An alliance? If there's something you could never do by yourself or RP, you can come to us and see if it'd be possible to link together and help you out.
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Wow, I might actually need this. Thanks!
 
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@Riuma


I do see where you're coming from, but I'm going to have to agree with Apfel. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from taking a failed proposal and making it a personal project. Or gathering interested people here and working with them on said proposal. The only thing is that the project wouldn't be considered a 'Story Mode' project (which is just a title, but one that represents the entirety of the group). The way I see it, is that this group is fairly relaxed, but has high standards in terms of projects. This is why posting a proposal here is different than posting one on site or in an interest check. Everyone's votes matter. Therefore, if the proposal passes here, you know it's good, because it kept to the standards. Personally, I think this group should focus on 1 or 2 active projects rather than have a bunch to work on. Focus on quality of said project rather than quantity. Also, too many active projects risk splitting the attention of active members who actually have the time and interest to participate in the projects. With your suggestion of changing the voting system, I fear what may happen is this group being overloaded with projects that few people care about.. Say if 4 people actually vote, 3 say yes, 1 say no, and all others abstain, the project would pass...but it would only be a project only a small minority of Story-Mode is interested in. In that case, why should it be called a Story Mode project? Everyone here joined Story Mode for a different reason. Some have a lot of good ideas they want to test out. Others want to make friends with like-minded individuals. Others simply want to learn...or are just curious. Regardless, what makes Story Mode a group is that everyone's votes impact what proposals are worked on. 


Looking at it one way, the people who decide not to vote simply aren't paying attention to the proposals. Looking at it another way, they are giving the person making the proposal 2 weeks to change their mind rather than giving a solid no. Because a no actually goes against the proposal and no one wants to be the one responsible for a proposal failing unless they actually hate the proposal...which isn't often the case. But there's no way to know which is the reason unless you ask them...like you did before. 
 
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Riuma said:
Another idea is that if 100% of voters said 'Yes', the proposal passes anyway.
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That is a thought. I'd need more opinions on that.


In the case of the Proposal for a Quest that's up, I could still do it personally if it doesn't have the # of required votes, but I choose not to. It's a personal preference, but I prefer to run things through a successful vote. Not sure how others feel on that
 
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