Advice/Help Please help me improve this idea

[Bunesh]

deleted, i'm getting pretty ashamed and humiliated by some of the stuff said here so I'm gonna put an end to it now.

 

[Idea]

After reading all this there is one thing I'm very confused by. Why is this an apocalypse?

Like, I get how this scenario is an apocalypse, but looking at the post-apocalyptic scenario it doesn't actually seem like a post apocalyptic world, just a very messy sort of Isekai-esque fantasy world where males happen to be the minority and I guess there are remnants of old buildings and stuff lying around?

I feel as though you'd be better off creating such a fantasy world instead of trying to make this apocalypse scenario because a lot of what you seem to focus on (people turning into monsters and such) is not really the apocalypse aspect, rather the apocalypse seems like more of a rushed excuse to create this kind of world. An excuse you don't need in the first place.


I could be wrong and this is just my opinion of course, but I'm putting it out there for your consideration.

 

[Bunesh]

After reading all this there is one thing I'm very confused by. Why is this an apocalypse?

Like, I get how this scenario is an apocalypse, but looking at the post-apocalyptic scenario it doesn't actually seem like a post apocalyptic world, just a very messy sort of Isekai-esque fantasy world where males happen to be the minority and I guess there are remnants of old buildings and stuff lying around?

I feel as though you'd be better off creating such a fantasy world instead of trying to make this apocalypse scenario because a lot of what you seem to focus on (people turning into monsters and such) is not really the apocalypse aspect, rather the apocalypse seems like more of a rushed excuse to create this kind of world. An excuse you don't need in the first place.


I could be wrong and this is just my opinion of course, but I'm putting it out there for your consideration.

The apocalypse part of this comes from the fact that the world as humanity knows it has completely crumbled, and yes it's inspired by a lot of Isekai, but I wanted to make it more difficult for the characters - a lot of social problems as an example. Think of it sort of as Fallout got headbutted by Final Fantasy

 

[Idea]

The apocalypse part of this comes from the fact that the world as humanity knows it has completely crumbled, and yes it's inspired by a lot of Isekai, but I wanted to make it more difficult for the characters - a lot of social problems as an example. Think of it sort of as Fallout got headbutted by Final Fantasy

If you want to make it more difficult, I recommend doing something like what Log Horizon did: Transport a bunch of people at once to a complete fantasy world with whatever changes that might carry. Maybe you can even leave it unmapped and without major civilizations anywhere near close to them, maybe even the crumbled city aesthetic. Again, the circumstances you want to create are simple and within the borders of suspension of disbelief to create without needing the apocalyptic scenario.

That said of course, if you're dead-set on the apocalypse thing go for it, but it just seems like a means not an end. An unecessarily complicated means that could easily be replaced without anywhere near the level of baggage or confusion being generated.

 

[Bunesh]

I suppose - I guess it's a pretty stupid idea, nevermind, thanks a bunch!

 

[Idea]

I'm sorry if I upset you. It's not a stupid idea, it's just not the best/most efficient way to achieve what you wanted, in my opinion.

 

[Gundam Watcher 27]

Sounds like a alt reality of Monster Girl Quest.

Please drop this at once!

 

[Tove]

So the RP concept boils down to 'the goddamn weirdest apocalypse ever'.

Basically, humanity (for once) wasn't responsible for the apocalypse, rather in a mirror dimension, a great demon lord won against the heroes sent to slay him, and fused the two worlds together, believing it would bring him glorious power... he was wrong.

He was VERY wrong.

Instead, it created an entirely new world, twice the size of the original earth with new celestial bodies in the heavens. Lots of people died on both sides in the fusion, some from being fused into walls and landscape that suddenly merged with our world, others from falling glass as every window in the world exploded from the pressure and magic, and still others from the mass failure of computerized technology. The survivors weren't left untouched as the vast majority turned into monster folk - anyone who reads interview with monster girls or monster musume will know what i mean - and also the majority are female. Males are now a minority, humans are rare and human males are the absolute rarest of all.

Computers no longer work, factories have failed and many destroyed, governments have collapsed, the entire globe has changed its appearance so old maps are utterly worthless, economies have collapsed and the world has fallen into a massive feudal state with a staggering number of new races, flora and fauna.

Thing is, I'm not sure what else to add or where to go from here... help?

It's an interesting idea but you have a lot going many different directions which might be where you're getting stumped at. I think that you might want to go with either making it a fantasy or a apocalypse either one or the other. With the magic it seems more of a fantasy direction.

 

[Bunesh]

Sounds like a alt reality of Monster Girl Quest.

Please drop this at once!

What do you mean 'drop this at once'?

 

[Gundam Watcher 27]

What do you mean 'drop this at once'?

As in do not make this.

It will always end with Rape in these kinds of Rps.

 

[Bunesh]

As in do not make this.

It will always end with Rape in these kinds of Rps.

I hate rape rp's and I have no idea what Monster Girl Quest is. And I already said I'm not doing it so...

 

[Gundam Watcher 27]

I hate rape rp's and I have no idea what Monster Girl Quest is. And I already said I'm not doing it so...

Good. Best you don't make this or look up that foul game.

 

[hosaki]

Hm... I don't get what's so bad about this idea. It may have unique potential, though I do have some questions about some of the plot/setting aspects being introduced.

I somewhat disagree with Idea -- I don't see how this isn't an apocalypse. It does have Isekai flavor, but is it really Isekai anymore if the characters' original world is entirely obliterated? I think that would fundamentally change character goals and plot progression, as returning back to a 'normal' life wouldn't be an option in such a scenario. The characters seeing the destruction of their world before their eyes certainly creates more existential fear and uncertainty than the 'transported to another realm' plot-line.

Bunesh But, I'm also not really sure what you want this RP to be? Personally, I don't think this idea would work if you approached it straight on as a serious apocalypse story, since the fantastical elements make for an inherently ridiculous premise. But if you treat it as entirely fantasy, that renders the entire apocalypse premise unnecessary, maybe even a bit overly edgy. (There's something incompatible about 'demon king's devilish plan gone horribly wrong' and 'millions of regular human civilians crushed by falling buildings'). I think the key potential of your idea would lie in the violent collision of reality with the fantastical: I can see this maybe working if you played up the ridiculousness of it all and made it into a dark/absurdist comedy. However, I think such an idea would be difficult to maintain/market as a group roleply and I'm not sure that's the direction you're going for... (I'm also curious as to why most of the men of the world have died out and why all the women have turned into monsters... doesn't seem to fit in thematically with the rest of what you have, save for the fact that might allow for isekai harem shenanigans? I'm kind of wary when I see a premise with such hooks).

Also, you needn't apologize for sharing your ideas. In my opinion, there's no such thing as a 'stupid idea' when it comes to storytelling -- it all comes down to the execution and detail rather than the general premise (just take a look at the general discussion thread: Anime & Manga - Make an anime sound really bad in 1 sentence.)

 

[Idea]

I don't see how this isn't an apocalypse.

I never said it wasn't. The idea is an apocalypse. Only it doesn't have to be, and I believe it is better off not being because given the OP's focus on those fantasy-esque elements it makes it seem like the element of "existencial fear" as you put it is more of a backdrop to what the real aim would, to create the world this apocalypse creates in the end. Given the whole apocalyptic scenario is, in the first place, the major cause for how messy everything ends up looking, I recommended that that extra step be eliminated as I don't it bringing a significant enough contribution.

Just clarifying my position there. You're of course still free to disagree and as I mentioned earlier bunesh is still free to do the apocalypse. My recommendations aren't law.

 

[hosaki]

I never said it wasn't. The idea is an apocalypse. Only it doesn't have to be, and I believe it is better off not being because given the OP's focus on those fantasy-esque elements it makes it seem like the element of "existencial fear" as you put it is more of a backdrop to what the real aim would, to create the world this apocalypse creates in the end. Given the whole apocalyptic scenario is, in the first place, the major cause for how messy everything ends up looking, I recommended that that extra step be eliminated as I don't it bringing a significant enough contribution.

Just clarifying my position there. You're of course still free to disagree and as I mentioned earlier bunesh is still free to do the apocalypse. My recommendations aren't law.

My apologies then, for misquoting you. However, I don't think you can assume what OP's real aim is in pitching this idea. Your suggestion is predicated on the supposition that they don't really want to do an apocalypse, they just want an excuse for a fantasy scenario, which is kind of strange to me. Of course, eliminating the apocalypse scenario would make all of the isekai inspired elements work better together as a whole, but that seems like an easy way out that doesn't exactly fit with the feel of what Bunesh has in mind, "Fall Out meets Final Fantasy" as they put it. (Mind you, this is only what I'm gathering from their comments on this thread.) Of course, my idea might not be closer to what they intend either, since I've said that I don't think an overly serious tone would work for the current premise as given.

Your suggestion isn't a bad one at all; I agree that some of the elements do come off as "messy" and incongruous and choosing one genre/setting to focus on would get rid of that problem. I might have just taken issue with some of the wording/assumptions being made (as they appeared to me).

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Your suggestion is predicated on the supposition that they don't really want to do an apocalypse

Saying this scenario is apocalyptic is the same thing as saying the demon king from, " the devil is a part timer" is evil. The scenario just doesn't fit an apocalypse. There's too much magic and other worldly shenanigans to make it as such. Ofcourse if you take out humans being turned into a monster fetish and make it humanity's last stand in a strange new world, maybe. But the world would also have to essentially mirror hell, fire and brimstone and all that other crap associated with the mythical realm. Until then, this is just a mixed setting that doesn't know what they're going for.

 

[Idea]

However, I don't think you can assume what OP's real aim is in pitching this idea. Your suggestion is predicated on the supposition that they don't really want to do an apocalypse, they just want an excuse for a fantasy scenario, which is kind of strange to me. Of course, eliminating the apocalypse scenario would make all of the isekai inspired elements work better together as a whole, but that seems like an easy way out that doesn't exactly fit with the feel of what Bunesh has in mind, "Fall Out meets Final Fantasy" as they put it. (Mind you, this is only what I'm gathering from their comments on this thread.) Of course, my idea might not be closer to what they intend either, since I've said that I don't think an overly serious tone would work for the current premise as given.

You're absolutely correct that one should not assume things about people's real aim. That said, that is not what I did. Rather, I got a strong impression based on what and how they wrote things.

Notice, for instance, how over half of the total amount of text is spent describing non-apocalypting elements of the world (AKA the fantasy elements of the world). Likewise, notice how only two lines aren't building up the new world, but rather properly destroying the old one: "governments have collapsed" and "economies have collapsed", two of the most generic results of an apocalypse. And then, there is the final line: "the world has fallen into a massive feudal state with a staggering number of new races, flora and fauna". Again, notice the conclusion doesn't even bring awareness to chaos or destruction or anything you'd expect from an apocalypse, but on the way everything is renewed and a weirdly specific focus on the new social arrangement of society.

One of the hardest things I find people have trouble with, specially those not used to introspection, is identifying the core of what they really want. I can be wrong of course, but from the evidence I pointed out up there, it seemed rather evident to me that the fantasy aspect was just much more important, that the apocalypse was pratically window dressing (not irrelevant of course, and I'll get to that in a minute) and just a way to set up that world from our new one.

From there, there was a problem to solve: The roleplay didn't really have anywhere to go. Since the OP also thought it was strange, I concluded that the mess that was this set up had something to do with it. With that I decided to make my proposition: To include all the elements brought fourth by this apocalypse, but without resorting to using the apocalypse. Creating a fantasy section is something you can do with immense freedoom, so it would hardly be that much of a stretch, and it wouldn't require that confusing sequence.

May I have read too much into things? It's possible, sometimes I do that. Either way though, I also made it clear on what basis I made my suggestions. If I was off the mark, they don't have to follow anything I say. Either way I didn't assume things, all I did was look into what they gave me to work with and view it under the same lens I do everything else.

 

[MrStrandMan]

Maybe would recommend looking at Desolation RPG by Greymalkin? The essence used in magic turned against the world and societies were destroyed. Everyone is left to fight over limited resources. Your characters have to focus on survival and recovering lost artifacts. Magic no longer is as helpful and can be dangerous. Everything has turned against you.

For fantasy and apocalypse, this is my only recommendation.

 

[hosaki]

Saying this scenario is apocalyptic is the same thing as saying the demon king from, " the devil is a part timer" is evil. The scenario just doesn't fit an apocalypse. There's too much magic and other worldly shenanigans to make it as such. Ofcourse if you take out humans being turned into a monster fetish and make it humanity's last stand in a strange new world, maybe. But the world would also have to essentially mirror hell, fire and brimstone and all that other crap associated with the mythical realm. Until then, this is just a mixed setting that doesn't know what they're going for.

Yes, the fantasy elements detailed by OP don't go with an apocalyptic premise. I've said as much in my original post, where I questioned whether the gravity of a world-ending scenario is really being conveyed sufficiently. I'm also unsure what OP is going for for this RP and I've asked for clarification in my original post, but they've yet to respond. However, intention =/= execution. Maybe OP wants to write a apocalyptic fantasy but it didn't come across that way. I don't think the two genres are incompatible, but meshing the two might be difficult.

You're absolutely correct that one should not assume things about people's real aim. That said, that is not what I did. Rather, I got a strong impression based on what and how they wrote things.

Notice, for instance, how over half of the total amount of text is spent describing non-apocalypting elements of the world (AKA the fantasy elements of the world). Likewise, notice how only two lines aren't building up the new world, but rather properly destroying the old one: "governments have collapsed" and "economies have collapsed", two of the most generic results of an apocalypse. And then, there is the final line: "the world has fallen into a massive feudal state with a staggering number of new races, flora and fauna". Again, notice the conclusion doesn't even bring awareness to chaos or destruction or anything you'd expect from an apocalypse, but on the way everything is renewed and a weirdly specific focus on the new social arrangement of society.

One of the hardest things I find people have trouble with, specially those not used to introspection, is identifying the core of what they really want. I can be wrong of course, but from the evidence I pointed out up there, it seemed rather evident to me that the fantasy aspect was just much more important, that the apocalypse was pratically window dressing (not irrelevant of course, and I'll get to that in a minute) and just a way to set up that world from our new one.

From there, there was a problem to solve: The roleplay didn't really have anywhere to go. Since the OP also thought it was strange, I concluded that the mess that was this set up had something to do with it. With that I decided to make my proposition: To include all the elements brought fourth by this apocalypse, but without resorting to using the apocalypse. Creating a fantasy section is something you can do with immense freedoom, so it would hardly be that much of a stretch, and it wouldn't require that confusing sequence.

May I have read too much into things? It's possible, sometimes I do that. Either way though, I also made it clear on what basis I made my suggestions. If I was off the mark, they don't have to follow anything I say. Either way I didn't assume things, all I did was look into what they gave me to work with and view it under the same lens I do everything else.

The path of thought you've traced here is very clear and logical. I just don't agree with your inherent starting premise that people's intentions and wants can be easily deduced from the things they say (even more so on an online forum). But that's neither here nor there and arguing about it would end up derailing the thread. (I also don't think we'd come to a consensus very easily as this seems to be a matter of differing world views).


Back to the aim of the thread itself.

Bunesh I've thought it over some more and maybe you could take Idea's idea of making it a pure isekai fantasy but modify it so that the world the MCs have been transported to is already post-apocalyptic/on the brink of total collapse? That might allow for a less jarring meeting of real life and fantasy, while still keeping both the novelty of a new world and the social problems that you said you wanted to focus on. (Also, if you could give more specifics about the particular social problems you want to write about, it might be helpful for coming up with plots for the setting). Of course, if you've already given up on the idea as a whole, then this might be a bit of unnecessary/unwanted advice ^^;[/divide]

 

[Bunesh]

Yes, the fantasy elements detailed by OP don't go with an apocalyptic premise. I've said as much in my original post, where I questioned whether the gravity of a world-ending scenario is really being conveyed sufficiently. I'm also unsure what OP is going for for this RP and I've asked for clarification in my original post, but they've yet to respond. However, intention =/= execution. Maybe OP wants to write a apocalyptic fantasy but it didn't come across that way. I don't think the two genres are incompatible, but meshing the two might be difficult.



The path of thought you've traced here is very clear and logical. I just don't agree with your inherent starting premise that people's intentions and wants can be easily deduced from the things they say (even more so on an online forum). But that's neither here nor there and arguing about it would end up derailing the thread. (I also don't think we'd come to a consensus very easily as this seems to be a matter of differing world views).


Back to the aim of the thread itself.

Bunesh I've thought it over some more and maybe you could take Idea's idea of making it a pure isekai fantasy but modify it so that the world the MCs have been transported to is already post-apocalyptic/on the brink of total collapse? That might allow for a less jarring meeting of real life and fantasy, while still keeping both the novelty of a new world and the social problems that you said you wanted to focus on. (Also, if you could give more specifics about the particular social problems you want to write about, it might be helpful for coming up with plots for the setting). Of course, if you've already given up on the idea as a whole, then this might be a bit of unnecessary/unwanted advice ^^;[/divide]

watching my idea get torn apart on here has been... ah... humbling? Let's go with humbling.

Moving on - I do love me a good Isekai...

The reason I made it Earth: The idea was to sort of explore how different groups would handle it, from the societal changes to the biological and how it would impact people. From religion to personal beliefs, how people would try to recover - would they try to recover? Making most people monster girls is a dual reason. 1 - It puts everyone on sort of even ground in that the females are all now inhuman and the males are inhuman females, so everyone can relate to everyone else. The second reason is a lot simpler - I like monster people.

The reason for making humans and males rare is to introduce this element that could cause a lot of anger in individuals as well as a sort of hoarding, males and humans are now a vast minority and have to struggle to find their place in the world. Are they a commodity? Are they a relic of the past?

The apocalypse part comes from the fact that the world as a lot of us define it now has been ruined, maybe apocalypse is too strong a word, but I couldn't really think of another one - Disaster perhaps? Regardless, I wanted to try and create this sort of incredible disaster scenario that didn't involve nuclear weapons or zombies or a virus or something, but rather this cause so far out of our control that we couldn't have seen it coming nor could we have prepared for it.

Which adds in the bitterness that, for once, humans didn't actually do anything wrong but are still suffering the consequences.

Then there is the adventure aspect - characters roaming the land, discovering ruins of human civilization and new strange places created by the merging, hostile races and monsters and friendly ones too.

Magic - The reason I used magic and fantasy as it's the equivalent of us finding out Star Wars isn't a science fiction movie but rather a dramatic re-enactment of historical events; we would be stunned and it would throw our whole belief system into chaos. Magic suddenly being very real creates chaos in that people have this new... thing to play with, and a lot of people already have preconcieved notions of how magic works (or rather SHOULD work) and so you have a lot of characters fighting to prove that they are right.

Then there are the kids who will grow up in this new world, and everything is so... normal to them, they haven't known anything else. Perhaps the players are these characters who get to go around and discover the once was of their world and try to make sense of it, while facing discrimination and hatred from different groups for a variety of reasons, or acceptance. Creating new things, maybe founding a city or something.

I kinda wanted to make this weird fantasy sandbox with mild grounding in our world to give the player characters something to start from, but also to create jarring differences to contrast.

I dunno, maybe I was being stupid or over-ambitious.

 

[Idea]

I dunno, maybe I was being stupid or over-ambitious.

You were neither of those things. Nobody has every perspective, and God knows the number of RPs I messed up making the exact same mistake I'm trying to help you solve here. There just happens to be a more efficient way to do the things you want to do.

Creating a fantasy world with minority males/humans and a variety of monster races, some of which used to be human? This can be done in a regular fantasy setting.

Human ruins? Can be achieved in a fantasy setting.

The sort of creatures, society etc... again, fantasy setting.

Taking people from our world and making them feel a sense of loss for their old world + fear of the unknown, facing against different peoples + element of adventure and exploration? Getting lost in another world, especially one with smaller human settlements instead of great big civilizations, or even one populated entirely by pockets of otherwolders does the trick.

Your idea wasn't bad- I just feel like there is a less costly, less messy, simpler and easier way to do this that fixes the on-your-face issues of your idea. Just a colombus egg my friend.

 

[Bunesh]

alright, thank you