OOC for Midheavens

[Devious Dilbert]

I will likely be relaunching it, even though we might have fewer players. I am considering adding a stipulation like "please post at least once every two days (I'm enforcing it this time), and if you don't know what to do, Mollisol needs to clarify something". There will also be things posted like my reply to Epiphany, and a clearer overarching plot than "fight Nadirs and find out bad things".



I don't like how slow it is; I'm constantly worrying it's going to die. The main thing with the plot is that I'm reacting to players a lot; I think I need to give them more to react to.

It also needs restructuring in some other areas, which are things I have run by you personally in a private message. Hopefully, between that, the clearer guidelines, and the clearer plot, it should run much more smoothly.

I think it definitely needs more guidance and structure from you for sure. Clearer plot definitely. It also needs to be more concise... is that the word I'm looking for?

I get that you wanna give players some time to introduce their characters and play around with them and their lives, but the rp hasn't really gotten anywhere since it's start. I know that you have tried to progress me and Exanis with Arisu, but you left other characters just kinda interacting with each other while nothing was really going on. And the fact that nothing was really going on was maybe why some of the inactive people who left, left as they were given nothing to work with or towards. It was very much just a slice-of-life rp in my opinion. And that's why I lost interest to continue.

Am I making sense?

 

[Quincunx]

I think it definitely needs more guidance and structure from you for sure. Clearer plot definitely. It also needs to be more concise... is that the word I'm looking for?

I get that you wanna give players some time to introduce their characters and play around with them and their lives, but the rp hasn't really gotten anywhere since it's start. I know that you have tried to progress me and Exanis with Arisu, but you left other characters just kinda interacting with each other while nothing was really going on. And the fact that nothing was really going on was maybe why some of the inactive people who left, left as they were given nothing to work with or towards. It was very much just a slice-of-life rp in my opinion. And that's why I lost interest to continue.

Am I making sense?

If by "concise", you mean the plot needs to be tighter and things need to happen faster, I agree. There were supposed to be slice-of-lifey elements to it, but that wasn't supposed to be the whole RP. I understand what you're saying, and I apologize for not involving y'all.

I'm considering starting with some sort of specific Nadir-caused mystery, and perhaps the love letters, so people have something overarching to tie them together as well as their own personal problems. Do you think that would work?

 

[Devious Dilbert]

If by "concise", you mean the plot needs to be tighter and things need to happen faster, I agree. There were supposed to be slice-of-lifey elements to it, but that wasn't supposed to be the whole RP. I understand what you're saying, and I apologize for not involving y'all.

Yep, then concise was the word I was looking for. It's totally fine. Now that you understand, things can be done about it.

I'm considering starting with some sort of specific Nadir-caused mystery, and perhaps the love letters, so people have something overarching to tie them together as well as their own personal problems. Do you think that would work?

The nadir mystery situation... it depends on what exactly it is. But it sounds like it would only be something significant to already turned Midheavens. Characters who are not midheavens would likely just shrug it off as they're not a part of that scene yet. But again, it depends on what it is.

The love letters could work. However, they have really only reinforced the slice-of-life thing, which hasn't really helped the rp at all actually. I'd suggest changing how you do them. Instead of making background things happen with the love letters, focus on specific events that will benefit the rp by having to be rp'ed out. Ex: "Character runs into a nadir." Something like that creates tension and could also easily cause some progression to happen with that character.
Something like: "One of the character's good friends is going through a tough time," can easily be shrugged off by the player.

Again, I get that you want to flesh out character's lives, and you want some slice-of-life to happen, but the rp also needs more things actively happening in order to progress it.

Lolol, I have to ask again, am I making sense? It's like 5:40 pm and I need a nap rn, Hah.

 

[Thalia_Neko]

i disagree i love the love letters, and it was to my knowledge, that they were supposed to be rped out xD hence their purpose

 

[Devious Dilbert]

i disagree i love the love letters, and it was to my knowledge, that they were supposed to be rped out xD hence their purpose

Not saying I disliked them either, and they were rp'ed out, yeah. It's kind of hard to explain exactly what I mean... I could try, but not sure how coherent I'd be with how tired I am rn, LOL.

 

[Quincunx]

The nadir mystery situation... it depends on what exactly it is. But it sounds like it would only be something significant to already turned Midheavens. Characters who are not midheavens would likely just shrug it off as they're not a part of that scene yet. But again, it depends on what it is.

That's true... :u I need to think about this. I might ask everyone to become an already-turned Midheaven so it's easier to make things that apply to everyone. Something I liked about where we were was that our characters were fairly different (besides age group), but we need something to unite us all, quickly, and it seems kind of fitting that it'd be Midheavens. I'm still looking for other options, though, because I was kind of looking forward to RPing a character getting "converted" into a Midheaven (for lack of a better word).

The love letters could work. However, they have really only reinforced the slice-of-life thing, which hasn't really helped the rp at all actually. I'd suggest changing how you do them. Instead of making background things happen with the love letters, focus on specific events that will benefit the rp by having to be rp'ed out. Ex: "Character runs into a nadir." Something like that creates tension and could also easily cause some progression to happen with that character.
Something like: "One of the character's good friends is going through a tough time," can easily be shrugged off by the player.

i disagree i love the love letters, and it was to my knowledge, that they were supposed to be rped out xD hence their purpose

Not saying I disliked them either, and they were rp'ed out, yeah. It's kind of hard to explain exactly what I mean... I could try, but not sure how coherent I'd be with how tired I am rn, LOL.

I don't think the love letters will be resolved today. I need to do some serious thinking about what function I expect them to serve, and why I would want to use them, or if I need to omit or replace them.

Again, I get that you want to flesh out character's lives, and you want some slice-of-life to happen, but the rp also needs more things actively happening in order to progress it.

Lolol, I have to ask again, am I making sense? It's like 5:40 pm and I need a nap rn, Hah.

You are making complete sense, and I appreciate all your help feel free to take a nap.

 

[Devious Dilbert]

I was kind of looking forward to RPing a character getting "converted" into a Midheaven (for lack of a better word).

Girl, as was I, LOL.
I think some of us already being Midheavens and some of us not is a good thing. I'm sure you can figure this out. Perhaps Arisu needs to be more present in order to unite us. But I feel like you're trying to make Arisu very enigmatic by having her be away often.

I don't think the love letters will be resolved today. I need to do some serious thinking about what function I expect them to serve, and why I would want to use them, or if I need to omit or replace them.

I'm willing to help you out. I've been planning a very ambitious rp for a while now and I'm also learning and theorizing about what works and what doesn't.
I'm here if you need me and I'd love to help you.

You are making complete sense, and I appreciate all your help feel free to take a nap.

Thanks, babe.

 

[Quincunx]

Girl, as was I, LOL.
I think some of us already being Midheavens and some of us not is a good thing. I'm sure you can figure this out. Perhaps Arisu needs to be more present in order to unite us. But I feel like you're trying to make Arisu very enigmatic by having her be away often.

I think I wasn't sure how to bring in Arisu. There are plenty of ways to make a character mysterious while still having them be present (fufufufu... >:] ).

I'm willing to help you out. I've been planning a very ambitious rp for a while now and I'm also learning and theorizing about what works and what doesn't.
I'm here if you need me and I'd love to help you.

Thank you! I need to start drafting changes in My Private Workshop before I get much further, but I will definitely ask you when something I'm not sure about comes up. You seem to know your stuff on keeping these going, and planning them so they keep going.

Thanks, babe. 3

You're welcome! Have a good sleep, whenever you sleep!

 

[Kimona]

Yo, i'm here! (after having half my day wasted by my fucking family) but bck o the point. You all bring up good points, but i'm not sure I can really comment on this since I barely even got to rp.

though i was wondering what sort of things are similar between our world and their's(the rp's)? because I found some fun quotes fro various source, on of being the bible (though i'm an aithy-my abreviation for it), that I thought were fun and that my character might say.

 

[Thalia_Neko]

im sowwy about that, i was waiting on molli to post so i could respond to her and you kimona D: 3

 

[Quincunx]

Yo, i'm here! (after having half my day wasted by my fucking family) but bck o the point. You all bring up good points, but i'm not sure I can really comment on this since I barely even got to rp.

though i was wondering what sort of things are similar between our world and their's(the rp's)? because I found some fun quotes fro various source, on of being the bible (though i'm an aithy-my abreviation for it), that I thought were fun and that my character might say.

Well, the religions that exist in our world don't exist in Astrophel. However, there might be some that take similar elements - for example, it wouldn't have a religion that has an original sin, good and bad afterlives, and a son of a divinity who died for the world's sins, but it might have a religion that involves someone who had a similar story to Jesus and no Hell, or an original sin and a creed of living one must undertake to cleanse themselves. This might help you with the quotes.

Other than religions, I'd need a more specific question than "what's similar and different between Astrophel and Earth" to be able to answer. ^^;

im sowwy about that, i was waiting on molli to post so i could respond to her and you kimona D: 3

Which turned into a bunch of falling dominoes of waiting, unfortunately. I apologize for that. 95% chance that we're relaunching the RP on Monday, though, so hopefully it moves along better. As a result, posting is kind of frozen for now, because we'll just be restarting in a new thread anyway.

 

[Epiphany]

Some further remarks that you can take or leave, boss.

One of the best things any RP moderator can do is animate the world. Provide scenery, detail NPCs, add touches of color. You've done a nice job of that in setting up both opening days but from there, each paired off player made up their own world/setting. And that's a viable way to go for the slice of life stuff but past a point, a lack of reaction from the world will invariably leave players either making up their own stuff or scratching their heads and not posting. Next time two of the girls are in a cafe drinking coffee, have them overhear a nearby table talking about a recent news item that both girls can react to and/or follow up on. Next time someone visits a friend at work, bring life to the other employees there. Doesn't need to be super-detailed and you definitely don't want to exhaust yourself. But the average RPer has ideas on how to play their character...and often very little else. That's what they're looking for from someone running a game.

Now, this gets a little muddled in sandbox-style games and there's some elements of sandbox here (but only some) which I think adds a bit to the confusion. True sandbox tends to be a moderator creating the setting but then turning players lose to make up whatever they want for plot. Some folks really like that. Me, not so much (or at all) and I've seen more people fail than succeed at sustaining life in a sandbox that lacks overarching direction. My recommendation is that you pick a path and recruit accordingly. The premise of this game lends itself well to a story-driven non-sandbox game which obviously puts more work/pressure on you but leads to a potentially tighter, stronger story. But it could work as a sandbox game too. What do you want to do?

I'll echo Devious Dilbert and recommend that if you reboot this game, you have everyone be a Midheavenite or not. The characters not necessarily knowing each other creates enough getting-the-band-together work; adding I-don't-play-music-yet to that mix will add complexity that the average player's probably going to need help from you to manage.

The love letter mechanic is nifty, interesting and I'm up for you continuing that. I suspect it will function best as a supplement to plot rather than a replacement. "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school" becomes a lot more interesting when it's turned into "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school while dealing with your girlfriend's sudden 'prove you're committed!' expectations."

Arisu is an excellent tool for banding characters together, providing missions/assignments and giving direction to characters who (by design) have some struggles with direction and/or obstacles in life that complicate their ability to commit to being a Midheavenite. If you want to preserve mystery, it's easy enough to simply have him make statements, not answer questions and not appear at anyone's beck and call but only when he's so inclined (i.e. when it's useful for the plot).

If there's any help I can provide, I'm happy to be a sounding board or a (wordy) provider of suggestions. I don't have a lot of stamina for sustained running of games (which is why I don't routinely run my own games or usually play in sandbox games) but I'm good for bursts anyway.

 

[Epiphany]

If all of this seems critical, by the way, it's actually the highest form of praise in disguise. If your RP was uninteresting, you'd hear crickets when soliciting suggestions or feedback. That you've inspired this many comments from this many people in so short a time suggests you've got something gold on your hands here.

 

[Quincunx]

Some further remarks that you can take or leave, boss.

One of the best things any RP moderator can do is animate the world. Provide scenery, detail NPCs, add touches of color. You've done a nice job of that in setting up both opening days but from there, each paired off player made up their own world/setting. And that's a viable way to go for the slice of life stuff but past a point, a lack of reaction from the world will invariably leave players either making up their own stuff or scratching their heads and not posting. Next time two of the girls are in a cafe drinking coffee, have them overhear a nearby table talking about a recent news item that both girls can react to and/or follow up on. Next time someone visits a friend at work, bring life to the other employees there. Doesn't need to be super-detailed and you definitely don't want to exhaust yourself. But the average RPer has ideas on how to play their character...and often very little else. That's what they're looking for from someone running a game.

Now, this gets a little muddled in sandbox-style games and there's some elements of sandbox here (but only some) which I think adds a bit to the confusion. True sandbox tends to be a moderator creating the setting but then turning players lose to make up whatever they want for plot. Some folks really like that. Me, not so much (or at all) and I've seen more people fail than succeed at sustaining life in a sandbox that lacks overarching direction. My recommendation is that you pick a path and recruit accordingly. The premise of this game lends itself well to a story-driven non-sandbox game which obviously puts more work/pressure on you but leads to a potentially tighter, stronger story. But it could work as a sandbox game too. What do you want to do?

I'll echo Devious Dilbert and recommend that if you reboot this game, you have everyone be a Midheavenite or not. The characters not necessarily knowing each other creates enough getting-the-band-together work; adding I-don't-play-music-yet to that mix will add complexity that the average player's probably going to need help from you to manage.

The love letter mechanic is nifty, interesting and I'm up for you continuing that. I suspect it will function best as a supplement to plot rather than a replacement. "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school" becomes a lot more interesting when it's turned into "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school while dealing with your girlfriend's sudden 'prove you're committed!' expectations."

Arisu is an excellent tool for banding characters together, providing missions/assignments and giving direction to characters who (by design) have some struggles with direction and/or obstacles in life that complicate their ability to commit to being a Midheavenite. If you want to preserve mystery, it's easy enough to simply have him make statements, not answer questions and not appear at anyone's beck and call but only when he's so inclined (i.e. when it's useful for the plot).

If there's any help I can provide, I'm happy to be a sounding board or a (wordy) provider of suggestions. I don't have a lot of stamina for sustained running of games (which is why I don't routinely run my own games or usually play in sandbox games) but I'm good for bursts anyway.

This all makes a lot of sense, and I'm so happy you guys are willing to help me grow from this I do think, at this point, relaunching would be what's best for the game - I've sunk too much time and energy in to abandon it, but we've gotten to a point where it's kind of inert, and I don't know how to give it the kick in the pants it needs without some significant changes to my GMing style, the way I present "playing the game", and beginning events. There are also some minor restructuring things I want to change.

I currently have several ideas involving things like love letters that I have shared with Thalia and Dilbert in private messages (so anyone who doesn't have the resources to do what they're doing doesn't feel obligated to). If you would like, I can let you into the conversation.

 

[Thalia_Neko]

One thing I stress, is do not start it over from the beginning, just give like.. idk some sort of soft reboot.

I really do not want to completely start over, that type of thing saps my muse, as it does others, I know.

 

[Epiphany]

Sure, hook me up!

Out of curiosity, how you would you characterize your GMing style? What's your intention in how you present "playing the game"? Can you give me an example of what might have happened for a hypothetical Midheavenite starting out, their mid game and what/if end game looks like? No spoilers, just interested in if you had any thoughts on metastructure.

 

[Quincunx]

One thing I stress, is do not start it over from the beginning, just give like.. idk some sort of soft reboot.

I really do not want to completely start over, that type of thing saps my muse, as it does others, I know.

I would like to know more about what you mean, in terms of events and history. Something I've had in mind is kicking the beginning off with some sort of event so we don't go through the slice-of-life, and I need to know if that will work with a "soft reboot".

We will be having the same characters and relationships (though the way the relationships were formed may or may not change).

Sure, hook me up!

Out of curiosity, how you would you characterize your GMing style? What's your intention in how you present "playing the game"? Can you give me an example of what might have happened for a hypothetical Midheavenite starting out, their mid game and what/if end game looks like? No spoilers, just interested in if you had any thoughts on metastructure.

For the first question, I feel like it depends on what game I'm running - the RWBY/combat school RP I'm running functions differently from this one, for example - and I feel like I'm constantly trying to adapt to what the particular game needs, but I think there are some constants. This (in its current incarnation) is more sandboxy than I usually do. I'm used to describing everything and making events and letting the players just walk around in it. However, I'm beginning to feel more and more like that's too... railroad-y. That said, I think I've swung too far in the other direction and not given people enough to work with.

A typical Midheaven starting out... well, let's use Mantis as an example.

Mantis starts as a new Midheaven, but also off-again with Honey, and barely scraping together money to pay rent. She's thinking she will use her wish to get some sense of security back in her life.

Mid-game, she's fought a few Nadirs, and learned things that make her wonder why Astrophel and the Nadirs are the way they are, and if there's more she's not getting. She's been able to make rent, which should've pleased Honey, but it comes at the cost of her having time to spend with her roommate, who has found someone else who invests more time in the relationship. Astrophel itself is also getting more chaotic - more rationing, more public unrest, perhaps some human "threats" making their presence felt. Finally, she has met all of the other Midheavens, whether she is competing with or helping them.

End-game, Mantis has learned some cosmic truths that force her to make a hard decision on what to wish for, and the city has gone nearly or completely dark. Depending on how shifts have gone in the game, the city might be hopeful or terrified in its lack of power. The human "threats" have risen to prominence, in a way that makes Mantis choose between overcoming them or overcoming the problems that came at the beginning of her story. Regardless of what decisions she makes during the endgame, she comes out changed - she's seen entropy in action, and human hate and desperation, and might be in conflict with some of the other Midheavens. Has it ultimately been good or bad for her?

 

[Thalia_Neko]

i merely mean, dont completely negate all the rp we already did, i just went through a reboot in journey, and lemme say, i love shirochankun to death! but starting it from complete scratch, negating all the rp we did... well it left me mostly museless to retread the same ground we covered just fine

starting the rp with a new event sounds cool , but maybe.. like.. dont make the quietus stuff canon, but the rest of the rp was?

 

[Quincunx]

i merely mean, dont completely negate all the rp we already did, i just went through a reboot in journey, and lemme say, i love shirochankun to death! but starting it from complete scratch, negating all the rp we did... well it left me mostly museless to retread the same ground we covered just fine

starting the rp with a new event sounds cool , but maybe.. like.. dont make the quietus stuff canon, but the rest of the rp was?

Oh, I understand what you mean now! Well, not a lot went on besides characters meeting and conversing with each other (fleshing out established relationships), the love letters, and the Quietus stuff, to be honest. But we can keep the first two things if that will help your muse.

 

[Thalia_Neko]

Oh, I understand what you mean now! Well, not a lot went on besides characters meeting and conversing with each other (fleshing out established relationships), the love letters, and the Quietus stuff, to be honest. But we can keep the first two things if that will help your muse.

indeed it would

i mean i was also a bit surprised that "Wings was a Midheaven, that famous idol" just sorta was glossed over XD i feel like that would be a small event in of itself to discover, unless the character who discovered it didnt know the fact that Wings was a famous idol

 

[Quincunx]

indeed it would

i mean i was also a bit surprised that "Wings was a Midheaven, that famous idol" just sorta was glossed over XD i feel like that would be a small event in of itself to discover, unless the character who discovered it didnt know the fact that Wings was a famous idol

I would say I intend to follow up on it better in the relaunch, but I'm planning on making Mantis a non-Midheaven NPC, so I'm not sure how to retcon them meeting. Yet.

 

[Thalia_Neko]

well they wouldnt have met if we didnt do the Quietus stuff XD so yeah haha

 

[Devious Dilbert]

i merely mean, dont completely negate all the rp we already did, i just went through a reboot in journey, and lemme say, i love shirochankun to death! but starting it from complete scratch, negating all the rp we did... well it left me mostly museless to retread the same ground we covered just fine

starting the rp with a new event sounds cool , but maybe.. like.. dont make the quietus stuff canon, but the rest of the rp was?

Weeeeellllll, in Shiro's defense, we got some new people that joined in. That kind of rp wasn't one where you could just continue from the same spot with how many new people joined us. I think it would have been unfair to the new people too.

Isn't the point of a relaunch/reboot to have a fresh new start?

 

[Devious Dilbert]

Quincunx

I'll echo Devious Dilbert and recommend that if you reboot this game, you have everyone be a Midheavenite or not. The characters not necessarily knowing each other creates enough getting-the-band-together work; adding I-don't-play-music-yet to that mix will add complexity that the average player's probably going to need help from you to manage.

What Epiphany is saying is true in that it will require more work on you to unite everybody together if some are Midheavens and some are not. However, I think it can be done. And for the "realistic life" theme you are going with, I think it would be better to have a mix of both nonMidheavens and Midheavens. Up to you though. One I think would support your theme better, but the other would just be easier.
But like I said though, I think it can be done.

The love letter mechanic is nifty, interesting and I'm up for you continuing that. I suspect it will function best as a supplement to plot rather than a replacement. "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school" becomes a lot more interesting when it's turned into "Tonight, find a Nadir said to be terrorizing a school while dealing with your girlfriend's sudden 'prove you're committed!' expectations."

Arisu is an excellent tool for banding characters together, providing missions/assignments and giving direction to characters who (by design) have some struggles with direction and/or obstacles in life that complicate their ability to commit to being a Midheavenite. If you want to preserve mystery, it's easy enough to simply have him make statements, not answer questions and not appear at anyone's beck and call but only when he's so inclined (i.e. when it's useful for the plot).

One of the best things any RP moderator can do is animate the world. Provide scenery, detail NPCs, add touches of color. You've done a nice job of that in setting up both opening days but from there, each paired off player made up their own world/setting. And that's a viable way to go for the slice of life stuff but past a point, a lack of reaction from the world will invariably leave players either making up their own stuff or scratching their heads and not posting. Next time two of the girls are in a cafe drinking coffee, have them overhear a nearby table talking about a recent news item that both girls can react to and/or follow up on. Next time someone visits a friend at work, bring life to the other employees there. Doesn't need to be super-detailed and you definitely don't want to exhaust yourself. But the average RPer has ideas on how to play their character...and often very little else. That's what they're looking for from someone running a game.

These are all really good points from Epiphany as well.

 

[Alterius]

This is a rather late response but for what it is worth I am still very much interested in this rp.