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Other Legality with Time and Interdenominational Travel

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
I asked a friend a very random question that has now got me thinking, far to hard, on the actual answer and I was hoping some other's might weigh in with their thoughts and options.

The Question:
If an Alternate version of yourself killed you, is it murder or suicide?



All the forensic evidence would say it's you. Or would the law look at it more as murder like if you had an identical twin who killed you? I mean you could probably get away with it in some states as "Assisted Suicide" if you knew how to twist the story and even then I don't know how a judge or jury could determine what to do in that situation...

My friend tried to plead the case with: "It was self-defense, if I didn't kill myself then I would cease to exist in this timeline."
But, if there's no signs of a struggle is it truly self-defense? Is a preemptive strike to keep your existence really a defense? Can you prove your statement? Why does your existence in this timeline out weigh his right to live?


Sadly My friend said his brain hurts thinking about/like this so I was hoping to find someone who would be up to debating the legality of killing an alternate version of yourself.
 

BreeDav

New Member
I think forensics would point to a staged suicide. So yes, it may be mistaken for a suicide, but I’d argue that it’s murder. You from a different time line is not you. You #2 (alt time line) May have been born with the same genetic tendency toward a certain personality, but by definition of “alternate timeline” they didn’t experience the same life or self defining moments as you did.

I would say that the real discussion of “you” or “not you” is if a you from your timeline traveled back from the future and killed you.
 

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
I would say that the real discussion of “you” or “not you” is if a you from your timeline traveled back from the future and killed you.
Which brings in the question is it possible to travel backwards in time? Because how do you go back and kill yourself it causes a complete paradox! Because if you go back and kill yourself you wouldn't be alive to go back and kill yourself. Right?
 

Simon_Hawk

****Village Idiot****
I would say it would be a weird case of suicide only if you were the exact person from the SAME timeline. Saying the word "Alternate" implies a difference, in which case I would have to say it is flat out murder, as @BreeDav says "You from a different timeline is not you. "
 

BreeDav

New Member
There is an understanding in physics that everything needs to be reversible. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part it is true. So, assuming that there is technology to go forwards in time, There is technology to go backwards in time. I’m not a subscriber to the idea that a paradox is some sort of time line implosion. I think it is a divergence point where one time line becomes two alternate time lines. So, at the moment of the killing, you are the same person. But once the killing is done, you are no longer the same as your timelines have now diverged.

Which I suppose brings us back to the original question.
 

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
Alternate doesn't mean completely different, some would argue for every right turn you have made in your life an alternate version of you has made a left turn. There's an endless number of possible different versions of yourself but that doesn't mean any of them would be THAT different from the you yourself knows.

One could also argue that no one truly knows themselves or that others know us either. Because even in a single timeline there are countless versions of yourself. The you, you think you are. The you that friends and family know you as. The you, your enemies know. Everyone sees everyone as something/someone else. So alternate in the sense that I am using it for with this hypothetical question is just means not the you that you know.
 

Simon_Hawk

****Village Idiot****
One could also argue that no one truly knows themselves or that others know us either. Because even in a single timeline there are countless versions of yourself. The you, you think you are. The you that friends and family know you as. The you, your enemies know. Everyone sees everyone as something/someone else.
But those are really just examples of "perception" something totally different from an ACTUAL alternate version of yourself. You can only be yourself, how people perceive you is something completely different.
 

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
So you're saying that an entire alternate world couldn't be made by someone else's perception? People believe that if I choose to say no there's another version of me that said yes, yet you don't think that an alternate version of you is created by manifesting what people perceive?
 

Simon_Hawk

****Village Idiot****
I guess I look at it like this if 4 people are on an airplane and one of them thinks it's scary the other thinks it is fun, one guy thinks it's taking forever, and the last person perceives it as going by quickly. Bottom line is they're still on an airplane. Seems like we are all on the same "airplane" and our perception didn't create MORE airplanes. I mean really, that is just human arrogance to assume our very thoughts and perceptions are capable of creating alternation timelines, that to me is pretty laughable.
 

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
But it's not laughable that our decisions and actions can create alternate timelines and universe?

If me choosing to turn to the right can create an alternate timeline where I go left is that not the exact same thing as if I stood there and vividly thought of going one way or another and yet stood perfectly still or went straight? I'm not trying to be arrogant, but I'm just saying that from the stand point of there being an infinite number of timelines and universes how is it so hard to believe that every fairy tale a child dreams up hasn't become a new reality?
 

Simon_Hawk

****Village Idiot****
The sheer amount of energy required to even assume that thinking something would create an alternate timeline or universe is mind boggling. Pretty sure our thoughts lack that kind of juice, I know my brain barely works on a watch battery lol
 

RelicFire

Like the Phoenix I shall raise from the ashes
So you're going off of the basis that it takes too much energy? That makes me think of the Wendigo, which is a creature that is powered by more people thinking about it. The more people thinking about it the more alive and powerful it becomes.
But if enough people believe in the infinite universe theory isn't it safe to say it too could become reality? Or is it to fantastical to believe in such a dream?
 
i hope an alternate version of me does not exist. Because if he had a better life than me, I'd kill him to replace him. And because I think that, he'd probably do the same vice versa. So we'd be locked in a game of predicting each other and predicting ourselves. A mind game where I try to think about what I would do if I was in his position in order to prepare. But if this is me, then he would know that I would adapt to what I think he would do. And I would know that he would know that I would try to adapt to what he would do.

It would either end up in both of us dying or both of us living.
 

BackSet

Summer Belongs to You
i hope an alternate version of me does not exist. Because if he had a better life than me, I'd kill him to replace him. And because I think that, he'd probably do the same vice versa. So we'd be locked in a game of predicting each other and predicting ourselves. A mind game where I try to think about what I would do if I was in his position in order to prepare. But if this is me, then he would know that I would adapt to what I think he would do. And I would know that he would know that I would try to adapt to what he would do.

It would either end up in both of us dying or both of us living.
Your life would become a spy vs spy comic.
 

Oliverknit

New Member
Seeing as it isn't the same version of myself I would say it is murder. However to go about proving that would be utterly difficult. If the other me as it were has my exact DNA, finger prints, ect. and were able to go about killing me without causing a struggle the investigation would more than likely lead the death to be ruled a suicide. If the other me was caught in the act or had some very distinct differences or there were signs of a struggle it would be ruled a murder. At least that what I think with my limited knowledge of the law,physics and whatnot.

You and your friend who posed the question might enjoy the movie "The One" staring Jet Li, it touches on the subject of different versions of yourself. You might also enjoy "The Adventures of Tom Stranger Interdimensional Insurance Agent" by Larry Correia. It's an audio book and it deals with all sorts of strange things in a humorous way and we do see different versions of the same characters pop up.

Anyway this was an interesting question thanks for the question and fun mulling it over!
 

M.J. Saulnier

Retired User
This person committed an act of violence that resulted in the taking of a life. Whether that individual was an alternate version of you, or not, the law would look at it as murder, because it is by the very definition of murder.

This is a slam dunk case.


It's one being killing another. Being a doppelganger has no baring on the definition and process of murder.

Let's not get into the falsehoods of time travel, and how it's a linear, made-made concept. But let's just say for the sake of argument, that there are alternate realities, and that these realities are identical clones of our own (for some reason). That person is not technically you. They are a version of you from another reality. So their actions against you are in no way, shape, or form to be considered suicide. You didn't make the conscious decision to end your life. You didn't even harm yourself or take it, another person did.




To me, there isn't even a basis for a debate here. It's homicide, cut and dry.

Time travel is virtually impossible because it's just the effects of gravity on the space around an object. Time isn't an actual force you can go back into. So I won't get into that convoluted mess.
 

BackSet

Summer Belongs to You
Time travel is virtually impossible because it's just the effects of gravity on the space around an object. Time isn't an actual force you can go back into. So I won't get into that convoluted mess.
Well, yes, that would be why this is a hypothetical. If time travel was possible I doubt I'd be here. I'd be looking at various historical events.
 

M.J. Saulnier

Retired User
Well, yes, that would be why this is a hypothetical. If time travel was possible I doubt I'd be here. I'd be looking at various historical events.
There are radical sub-sections of science, as well as individuals, that believe it may be possible. Even though everything we currently know about physics dictates that it's impossible to travel back in time, it seems more likely than multiverses or alternate realities where a new universe was born for every possible variation that has ever taken place. That one is really amusing to me. Time travel is at least fun and instantly facilitates a great story. Multiverses are just nonsensical rubbish. We should be wondering how our singular universe got here, rather than imagining there's another reality for every decision you didn't make. That would mean centillions upon centillions of realities, giving rise to centillions upon centillions of more realities based on decisions not made in those realities, giving rise to centillions upon centillion of realities based upon decisions not made in those realities...I think you get the picture. Physics just does not work that way. It defies any reason or vindication to the point where it becomes like magic.

There is a very strong possibility that there are other universes out there. We don't even really know where we reside in the scope of existence. Is everything just one big black void? What is the universe expanding into? How much of "it" is out there? Is there a limit to empty space? If so, why? Where is it? Is there something beyond it? Are we inside of the event horizon of a black hole sitting in a parent universe? Was the "Big Bang" a star collapsing, sucking in light and matter, crushing it until it was super heated, spitting it out into the gravity bubble on the other side, forming a mirco universe?

We have no clue! That's the beauty of it. And I LOVE these types of conversations. Thinking like this is what made humanity leap forward into new eras of discovery and achievement.
 

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