Intelligence vs Wisdom

[MDL]

So I was thinking about various stats in RPGs...


I'm not an experienced RPG roleplayer because my life won't allow it. But I still think about them a lot, especially cause I used to do lots of game design a while back. Mostly video game stuff, modding and such. And to some extent I think they follow similar principles, at least in my opinion.


One thing that crossed my mind was the intelligence and wisdom stats that occur frequently. At least in the systems I've looked at. As far as I've understood it intelligence is the ability to acquire and use knowledge and wisdom is more the sum of one's knowledge and how it leads to more unwritten accounts of knowledge. This is probably incorrect though, but I know it's something like that, correct me ifamwrang. Anyhow, my question was as follows:


Which roleplaying system do you think represents a characters quality of mind the best? And is there any system that stays especially true to the meaning of both words, or any synonyms used.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

So I was thinking about various stats in RPGs...
I'm not an experienced RPG roleplayer because my life won't allow it. But I still think about them a lot, especially cause I used to do lots of game design a while back. Mostly video game stuff, modding and such. And to some extent I think they follow similar principles, at least in my opinion.


One thing that crossed my mind was the intelligence and wisdom stats that occur frequently. At least in the systems I've looked at. As far as I've understood it intelligence is the ability to acquire and use knowledge and wisdom is more the sum of one's knowledge and how it leads to more unwritten accounts of knowledge. This is probably incorrect though, but I know it's something like that, correct me ifamwrang. Anyhow, my question was as follows:


Which roleplaying system do you think represents a characters quality of mind the best? And is there any system that stays especially true to the meaning of both words, or any synonyms used.

I've always seen it as Int is what you know and Wisdom is the ability to correctly use it, like common sense.


I have yet to find a game where I really like the stats used.

 

[Grey]

Intelligence, usually, is employed to portray a character's capacity to learn, retain, and collate information. Rote learning, long study, and attention to detail are normally covered here, too.


Wisdom is about experience and the application of both experience and knowledge to a situation. I'm trying to think of good examples from popular media, but I'm not sure what fits...


Thinking of The Wire, Jimmy McNulty has high Intelligence, but Lester Freamon has high Wisdom.


Or, say, Game of Thrones - Melisandre has high Intelligence, but Ser Davos Seaworth has high Wisdom.


I can't really think of any systems that make particularly good or noteworthy use of these things, since typically both traits are best exemplified through roleplay. Unknown Armies might be worth a look, in terms of systems that take mental traits seriously. Or... hmm. Nope, can't seem to think of any others. Honestly I think you're better off having wisdom be a quality of a character rather than a stat.


Where do you see most stats falling down, Wiz?

 

[Miz]

While I kind of agree with Grey and Wiz. I have to say in my personal opinion:


Intelligence is your actual knowledge, the amount of knowledge attitude you can hold and how many facts (or fun facts) you can pull out of your hat at anyone time and apply to your own situation. Whereas Wisdom is more of your understanding of the world and how you grasp the larger picture (macro-affairs) and place it within your smaller picture (micro-affairs). They seem like similar skills, but that is because lots of people, while not masters in both are at least good at one and adequate at the other. This is why Wizards and Technomages in games are normally Intelligence, whereas Shamans and Priests are normally Wisdom.


I think the best kind of way to understand it is to talk about what fields each Stat would give you if it were real life.


High Intelligence in my opinion is best used when we are talking about STEM fields. People in those careers understand a lot of what they are particularly using and they can explain things in detail about certain topics (like Rocket Scientist, Advanced Computer Languages). But if stereotypes are to believed, a person with this high Intelligence and not much Wisdom may not be the best people person.


High Wisdom on the otherh and is best used when we are talking about Creative or Social Fields. People in those careers may not understand hard logic and facts as much but they can come to an understanding of more abstract things like Faith, Emotions and other humans fairly easily. But if stereotypes are to believed, a person with High Wisdom and Low Intelligence may not be able to see their ideals through a realistic lens. They may become idealistic and not even realize it.


Nevertheless both are problem solvers but in different ways. That is why you would say in a DnD game, both Clerics and Wizards are very knowledgeable people. However Wizards are the Smart Ones and the Clerics are the Wise Ones. What is better really depends on who you ask, after all Intellect can help you solve a problem but Wisdom also makes you realize what other problems are there and how to prevent future problems.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Wolf agrees with Grey and Miz. Those are some nice examples as well *bark*


Basically if you equaled Intelligence with the word "smart", that makes is even simpler. Intelligence is smarts. Wise people are something else. Wisdom is the application of intelligence. One does not need a high intelligence to make wise decisions.

 

[MDL]

...Whereas Wisdom is more of your understanding of the world and how you grasp the larger picture (macro-affairs) and place it within your smaller picture (micro-affairs)...

So wise people build great bases while intelligent people know how to control their units well. I see it so much clearer now.
Joking aside; BAM you people are wise and/or intelligent.

 

[Iron Penguin]

Or, as the old saying has it, INT is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, WIS is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. And CHA is convincing people to eat your tomato and tropical fruit salad anyway.


(Edited to correct spelling - what the hell is "topical fruit" anyway?)

 

[MDL]

[QUOTE="Iron Penguin]Or, as the old saying has it, INT is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, WIS is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. And CHA is convincing people to eat your tomato and topical fruit salad anyway.

[/QUOTE]Tomatoes are fucking fruit?!

 

[Iron Penguin]

Tomatoes are fucking fruit?!

No, just ordinary fruit

 

[Tabby]

People have already done a pretty solid job of answering the question, but my $0.02:


Intelligence is logic, reason, facts, raw intelligence - knowing the SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE or being able to keep on squaring a number into the sextillions in your head. Macguyvering up a totally ballin' power suit or building a Gundam from scratch kinda thing. Sort of a - I guess you could see it as mechanical assessments of things.


Wisdom is knowing that sticking the magic basketball containing the raw hatred and loathing and rage and maleficence of the collective Neverborn into your magic power armor, and expecting it to work just fine as an additional power source, is probably not a good idea.* More of a spiritual or empathic look at what could go wrong with what intelligence sees as pure potential.


To some degree I see it as a contrast of possibility vs probability, or potential vs likely results; Intelligence solely covers going beyond the impossible and kicking reason to the curb, while wisdom is more focused on what happens when you let the Anti-Spirals loose on the universe. Both can be hallmarks of a quick mind, and both are very powerful and very useful, just covering different spheres of influence and useful for different situations.


*based on a true story

 

[Lux___Wolf]

Omg amazing accounts on intelligence and wisdom from everyone here. Makes me want to add something from the Harry Potter universe.


Intelligence:


- Hermione Granger


- Voldemort


Wisdom:


- Harry Potter


- Luna Lovegood


Both:


- Albus Dumbledore


- Minerva McGonagall

 

[MDL]

[QUOTE="Lux___Wolf]Omg amazing accounts on intelligence and wisdom from everyone here. Makes me want to add something from the Harry Potter universe.
Intelligence:


- Hermione Granger


- Voldemort


Wisdom:


- Harry Potter


- Luna Lovegood


Both:


- Albus Dumbledore


- Minerva McGonagall

[/QUOTE]Harry is an idiot

 

[Tabby]

Harry is an idiot

Thank you for contributing to the conversation?

 

[Alexandra]

For me, Wisdom has always implied a certain amount of creative thinking, or the ability to apply what you know in useful ways.


Intelligence is how book-smart you are; ultimately how well you can learn and spit things out. Wisdom covers the application of what you have learned, combined with your ability to think for yourself, as opposed to regurgitation. Common sense would probably fit under Wisdom too.


Wisdom would also likely cover knowing why it's a good idea to have Intelligence :tongue:

 

[Captain Hesperus]

I think this adequately describes how Wisdom =/= Intelligence:

Captain Hesperus

 

[Belial]

in d20 they added wisdom into the mix because they simply wanted to keep from giving the intelligence stat to much emphasis, and resulted in the half assed stat that is wisdom.


If I remeber correctly the old star wars d6 system wasn't bad, white wolf isnt bad, and shadow run 4th ed if memory serves isnt bad


in fact Ive found a few different games weren't bad, that being said most of these games didn't have separate stats for wisdom and int, or they were systems like white wolf that had a relatively equal amount of skills tied to each stat.\


But look at inteligence as book smarts things learned in a school


wisdom is practical knowledge, or knowledge gained from experience. The ability maybe not see how to preform an action, but why or why not you want to do something.

 

[Melissia]

The way I understand it:


Intelligence is knowledge and logic. A scholar is intelligent because they are learned and can grapple with complex logical problems.


Wisdom is intuition and judgement. A priest is wise because they can intuit the problems their flock faces, and encourage sound judgement.


There is some overlap, but you should think of it as different kinds of intelligences, as it were.

 

[JayTee]

Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit.


Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.