Character Theory HOW NOT TO MAKE A CS

Caffeine Freak

Two Thousand Club
People do things in character sheets and I don't like it.

Things include:

• BBCodes that burn the retinas off the reader. BBCode is very useful for making your posts aesthetically pleasing and for splitting character information into categories. Unfortunately, the majority of people choose to use BBCode as a psychological weapon that causes internal hemorrhaging whenever someone attempts to read what's written because A) The font doesn't match the background and becomes unreadable, B) The chosen style looks horrendous in dark mode, or C) Whoever was typing out (or just pasting) the code forgot to hit preview and half the post is inaccessible because it physically leaves the screen.

• Over-explaining trivial details that will likely have no bearing on the actual RP.
The fact that your character "wears black lace-up boots with high heels, ripped red fishnets, a black leather minidress with all this corset stuff on the back and front, matching fishnet armlets, and paints their nails black and puts on TONS of black eyeliner, and has a cool tattoo on the back of their neck and star-shaped birth mark on their left shoulder" or shares a similar contrived description does not help the reader understand anything about said character, and is generally just not very cash money.

• Tragic bios so characters can be edgy rather than having motivation. Dead parents are a classic, the WHO estimates that 90% of teenaged role-play characters have one or more dead parents. This causes them to be bitter and angsty but not have an actual desire to seek revenge or retribution for the loss of their loved ones or have a different sense of self worth or introspection on human life.

• Writing character sheets in first person.
Some may refer to them as players with a different writing style but I prefer the term heretics. I believe there is indeed a bible verse that prohibits the creation of character sheets written in first person perspective, but really it's more a matter of human decency.

• Not reading other character sheets in the RP and ending up with characters that are too similar.
Oh look we now have ten sneaky ninja thieves in our fantasy RP, what even is character variation?


You do not need to check my profile and tell me that I'm a hypocrite because I am already telling you that I am one.

Thank you and please stop.
 
But if my teenage character's parents are alive, that means I have to come up for an explanation for why my character is constantly out way past curfew and doing whatever they want!!
 
Over-explaining trivial details that will likely have no bearing on the actual RP. The fact that your character "wears black lace-up boots with high heels, ripped red fishnets, a black leather minidress with all this corset stuff on the back and front, matching fishnet armlets, and paints their nails black and puts on TONS of black eyeliner, and has a cool tattoo on the back of their neck and star-shaped birth mark on their left shoulder"
So "don't describe your character's appearance?"
 
• BBCodes that burn the retinas off the reader. BBCode is very useful for making your posts aesthetically pleasing and for splitting character information into categories. Unfortunately, the majority of people choose to use BBCode as a psychological weapon that causes internal hemorrhaging whenever someone attempts to read what's written because A) The font doesn't match the background and becomes unreadable, B) The chosen style looks horrendous in dark mode, or C) Whoever was typing out (or just pasting) the code forgot to hit preview and half the post is inaccessible because it physically leaves the screen.
Very true. That is a nightmare. But you have to realize that a lot of people are minors and you can't set such high expectations for minors. They gotta be able to do their thing.

• Over-explaining trivial details that will likely have no bearing on the actual RP.
The fact that your character "wears black lace-up boots with high heels, ripped red fishnets, a black leather minidress with all this corset stuff on the back and front, matching fishnet armlets, and paints their nails black and puts on TONS of black eyeliner, and has a cool tattoo on the back of their neck and star-shaped birth mark on their left shoulder" or shares a similar contrived description does not help the reader understand anything about said character, and is generally just not very cash money.
It could in theory serve the RP but it is true that it rarely does. Mostly because people either don't read, or make an effort of incorporating sheet-details into their roleplaying.

• Tragic bios so characters can be edgy rather than having motivation.
Dead parents are a classic, the WHO estimates that 90% of teenaged role-play characters have one or more dead parents. This causes them to be bitter and angsty but not have an actual desire to seek revenge or retribution for the loss of their loved ones or have a different sense of self worth or introspection on human life.
Again minors. They like it so why not? If this bothers you make a game where you explicitly set up rules dictating what you won't tolerate for character creation. Or join a game with more serious players. How few and far between they might have become.

• Writing character sheets in first person.
Some may refer to them as players with a different writing style but I prefer the term heretics. I believe there is indeed a bible verse that prohibits the creation of character sheets written in first person perspective, but really it's more a matter of human decency.
Seems odd thing to be bothered by.

• Not reading other character sheets in the RP and ending up with characters that are too similar.
Oh look we now have ten sneaky ninja thieves in our fantasy RP, what even is character variation?
This I can agree with. This is laziness and half-assed people. But if the ST don't ask for it specifically you can't blame the players.

It seems to me that you are exposing yourself to a lot of shit character sheets because that is the kind of games that you participate in. If it isn't, then why are you reading all these character sheets that you're not associated with?

Find better players, have a better time. Simple.
 
So your character only wears one set of clothes?
I didn't think of that when I first read it. Very true. Totally pointless description in this case. But I guess lazy RPs could just feature characters that look the exact same all the time for convenience or because players just don't consider that aspect of development.
I mean depending on the setting, yes.
Really? If you're playing a robot with silver plated metal on the outside then I get it. But if you wear clothes, like most of these weeb-fashionistas that many people play, I doubt you only got one outfit. He's got you done there mate.
 
I didn't think of that when I first read it. Very true. Totally pointless description in this case. But I guess lazy RPs could just feature characters that look the exact same all the time for convenience or because players just don't consider that aspect of development.
Weirdly enough, we don't typically see outfit changes that often in roleplays. Espcially medieval stuff where a character is donning a full knight's kit. I've never seen someone write up the process of donning and removing all the different plates and clothing beneath.
 
Weirdly enough, we don't typically see outfit changes that often in roleplays. Espcially medieval stuff where a character is donning a full knight's kit. I've never seen someone write up the process of donning and removing all the different plates and clothing beneath.
Well. That's true. But sometimes a lot of time passes in a game. And you can only assume that the character changed their underwear during the week or so that passed.
 
Well. That's true. But sometimes a lot of time passes in a game. And you can only assume that the character changed their underwear during the week or so that passed.
Ah, I meant more so at certain events. It would be a bit odd for a guy to be wearing a chainmail hauberk whilst attending a dinner party... oh wait..
591997

It all makes sense now!
 
But if you wear clothes, like most of these weeb-fashionistas that many people play, I doubt you only got one outfit.
Maybe I expressed myself poorly. I don't mean that all of my characters literally own a single outfit, but rather that all their outfits are identical.
 
Maybe I expressed myself poorly. I don't mean that all of my characters literally own a single outfit, but rather that all their outfits are identical.
That still makes absolutely no sense. What kind of character would have multiple identical outfits? Why?
 
• BBCodes that burn the retinas off the reader. BBCode is very useful for making your posts aesthetically pleasing and for splitting character information into categories. Unfortunately, the majority of people choose to use BBCode as a psychological weapon that causes internal hemorrhaging whenever someone attempts to read what's written because A) The font doesn't match the background and becomes unreadable, B) The chosen style looks horrendous in dark mode, or C) Whoever was typing out (or just pasting) the code forgot to hit preview and half the post is inaccessible because it physically leaves the screen.

While in principle this makes sense, in pratical terms BBcode can't please everyone. While I do support making CSs that people can actually read even if they do not share your sensibilities and device for viewing the CS, I make my BBcode because I like adding that BBcode and for no other reason (except I guess adding flavor to the character and the occasional feature for the RP).

I do agree that one shouldn't make a CS that's radiant like the sun or with unreadable font, but at the same time nobody's so much as being rude if they forget to account for that one vampire that can't stand the existence of the color yellow.

As for the C problem, rather than the preview, I think people should really learn to disable the rich editor. It autocompletes code which doesn't always show in preview, and so it results in a lot of broken code for more complex coding.

• Over-explaining trivial details that will likely have no bearing on the actual RP. The fact that your character "wears black lace-up boots with high heels, ripped red fishnets, a black leather minidress with all this corset stuff on the back and front, matching fishnet armlets, and paints their nails black and puts on TONS of black eyeliner, and has a cool tattoo on the back of their neck and star-shaped birth mark on their left shoulder" or shares a similar contrived description does not help the reader understand anything about said character, and is generally just not very cash money.

->Rps are not books. It's physically impossible to know what will or not have a bearing on the RP because there is another person involved whose plans or choices might entirely derail everything.

->Having to think of the little details can help both building and showing character, if done appropriately. The favored clothing choice of the character may help you build them more as a person, and can also show some elements of characertization. For instance, if the description is focused on how the clothes are covered in precious jewelry this can show the character is rich, or wants to pretend to be rich and/or is just an incredibly superfluous or (if they are fake jewels) maybe guillable person. If there is a small description of items on one's hands but an incredibly detailed one of the boots, then that's an indication that something is up with those boots (again, if the detail is being handled appropriately)

->At least for detailed roleplaying, more information seldom hurts unless it is contradictory or otherwise comes at the expense of relevant information.



Other than that, it was a pretty funny post (even those were), just thought I'd pitch in on those two disagreements.
 
I think the problem with clothes Idea Idea is as mentioned in the thread itself - your character isn’t only going to wear one outfit for the entire roleplay. And even if they do it would be better to describe it in the roleplay itself. I don’t know about you but I don’t tend to reference the CS constantly once the roleplay starts. So having the characters one singular outfit put in the CS is useless to me even if it does have some character relevant beats.

Also clothes are like music taste. They reflect the individual and how they view fashion far more than they reflect the player.

And fashion is very subjective and not everyone has the same points of reference to understand what your trying to convey.

Like some people might see a woman wearing pants as being “mannish” and another person is going to think that’s perfectly normal and completely miss the subtext.

So I think it’s all a matter of knowing your audience and understanding that you can’t assume everyone is going into it from the same viewpoint as you.
 
->Having to think of the little details can help both building and showing character, if done appropriately. The favored clothing choice of the character may help you build them more as a person, and can also show some elements of characertization. For instance, if the description is focused on how the clothes are covered in precious jewelry this can show the character is rich, or wants to pretend to be rich and/or is just an incredibly superfluous or (if they are fake jewels) maybe guillable person. If there is a small description of items on one's hands but an incredibly detailed one of the boots, then that's an indication that something is up with those boots (again, if the detail is being handled appropriately)
This is somewhat true but the point still stands that I've never seen it, and I can guarantee most people have not, affect roleplaying in any way and is mostly just a weebish-fashionista fantasy that someone is trying to live out. Not that I'm against that like the OP, but it's nevertheless true.
Also clothes are like music taste. They reflect the individual and how they view fashion far more than they reflect the player.
Yes, but that doesn't really matter. That differing in perspective will then carry over to the characters and whops you have characters with different opinions on fashion. That view people differently. That's a good thing for RPing, is it not?
 
I think the problem with clothes @Idea is as mentioned in the thread itself - your character isn’t only going to wear one outfit for the entire roleplay. And even if they do it would be better to describe it in the roleplay itself. I don’t know about you but I don’t tend to reference the CS constantly once the roleplay starts. So having the characters one singular outfit put in the CS is useless to me even if it does have some character relevant beats.
This is somewhat true but the point still stands that I've never seen it, and I can guarantee most people have not, affect roleplaying in any way and is mostly just a weebish-fashionista fantasy that someone is trying to live out. Not that I'm against that like the OP, but it's nevertheless true.

Clothing is used as an example to comment on descriptions as a whole- And so the same goes for me.

And sure, I absolutely agree the clothing in the CS specifically is rather redundant 99% of the time, and when it isn't it's because we're talking preferential or most common clothing and it's being done exceptionally well. That said I do not find that to be in of itself a reason not to include it. I will not presume to know the motivations nor the skill of one who does do it, even if I don't, but with the exceptions of the information becaming contraditory or come at the expense of other, more relevant information, I do see a reason why it would be harmful to include it in the CS. And those don't seem to be all that common either. You most often find choices of outfit on prebuilt OCs which if nothing else do tend to be thought about in much more thorough detail, so missing key information is typically not an issue. And they do tend to at least start just wearing that outift.

My disagreement with the OP is that I find their criteria to be a bad criteria, because it both fails to account for the simple nature of roleplaying (a medium where you can't predict what will or not be relevant and where you yourself have the most control over what will or not become relevant for your specific character and/or plot) and ascribes a negative value to something which at worst is just extra information that isn't doing any harm (barring the aforementioned exceptions).

nd fashion is very subjective and not everyone has the same points of reference to understand what your trying to convey.

Like some people might see a woman wearing pants as being “mannish” and another person is going to think that’s perfectly normal and completely miss the subtext.
But that goes for literally anything you try to "show not tell", there will always be people who will just not get it, in fact I'm willing to bet over half the time nobody gets most subtext in any given work. As the roleplay goes on and the character displays more of that behavior, hopefully the idea will get across and people will be able to appreciate how it shows in how the character dresses as well. Even if they don't "people may not get it" is an inevitability, surely nothing that should discourage one from trying to communicate something in a given way, unless you're talking about absolutely crucial information to share, at which point you should just say it directly.

So I think it’s all a matter of knowing your audience and understanding that you can’t assume everyone is going into it from the same viewpoint as you.
You mean to suggest that I should have an obligation or rather, that I'm doing something wrong by expressing how the character is through details on them, instead of specifically catering to the point of view of an unknown number of people that I know little to nothing about?

I'm not assuming anyone has my point of view, that's not a requirement for describing things in a given way or trying to show character points through certain behaviors and choices. I shouldn't wine about people misunderstanding my character either of course- but the character isn't an appeal to other people, it's not meant for other people, a character is its own entity.
 
My disagreement with the OP is that I find their criteria to be a bad criteria, because it both fails to account for the simple nature of roleplaying (a medium where you can't predict what will or not be relevant and where you yourself have the most control over what will or not become relevant for your specific character and/or plot)
Well if it's redundant 99/100 times then you can safely assume it's going to be redundant. Just like I can assume that going outside I won't be attacked, even if that happens once every 10000 times someone goes outside.
something which at worst is just extra information that isn't doing any harm (barring the aforementioned exceptions).
Well the harm is that others have to read it. Which is wasting their time. And annoying pointless details are usually accompanied by a lot of other pointless details.

But I also disagree with the OP because I simply don't roleplay with plebs who like to play dress-up or live out their fetish-like fantasies. I can deduct whether or not a game that I am considering will contain this, and if it does I just leave them too it. Doesn't bother me.
 
Well if it's redundant 99/100 times then you can safely assume it's going to be redundant. Just like I can assume that going outside I won't be attacked, even if that happens once every 10000 times someone goes outside.
But unlike that example, in this case you have a degree of control over the relevancy.

Well the harm is that others have to read it. Which is wasting their time. And annoying pointless details are usually accompanied by a lot of other pointless details.
I'm all for saving time, but adding a bit more information is well worth those 10 seconds if that much that you'll spend reading it. And you may not even have to do that, since a lot of the time the outfit is described in its own section, so you can just skip that section.
 
But unlike that example, in this case you have a degree of control over the relevancy.
Well I've been around since 2010 and I've never seen it be relevant. Ever. Which leads me to deduce that it's not going to happen. Because players that grow into good CS habits realize that it doesn't help the plot and it's just there to build up the personal fantasy of the author. This is how it always is and always will be. No exceptions. Often it's weebs that are socially inept in school so this arbitrary stuff they've picked up in perverted anime-series is key to their idea of what they wish life was actually life. Being nerdy and insecure while still getting all the girls.


I'm all for saving time, but adding a bit more information is well worth those 10 seconds if that much that you'll spend reading it. And you may not even have to do that, since a lot of the time the outfit is described in its own section, so you can just skip that section.
Well reading-time on RP sites is a currency. Don't waste the dollars yo, not even 10 sec.
 
Well I've been around since 2010 and I've never seen it be relevant. Ever. Which leads me to deduce that it's not going to happen. Because players that grow into good CS habits realize that it doesn't help the plot and it's just there to build up the personal fantasy of the author. This is how it always is and always will be. No exceptions. Often it's weebs that are socially inept in school so this arbitrary stuff they've picked up in perverted anime-series is key to their idea of what they wish life was actually life. Being nerdy and insecure while still getting all the girls.
That's ...one huge assumption from very little pretty much unrelated info.

Regardless, I disagree. I believe it has, in principle, potential, even if very little of it. Though as we talk I realize we have different ideas of "relevant". The character sheet is there to display the character as an entity and serve as an information bank, and relevancy in the actual RP can just be for the purposes of world or character building, creating atmosphere or the like, at least to me and others that think like me. There's no need for something to contribute to the plot in order for it to be relevant.

Well reading-time on RP sites is a currency. Don't waste the dollars yo, not even 10 sec.
I absolutely agree. And I'm willing to give my friends a coin to perform a magic trick, even if in the end I'm still going to find it boring. It makes them happy, and the cost is close enough to nothing.

Definetely better than saving money having to hang out with some boring bland person who is never motivated to do anything. Which, to make the analogy clearer, is representing people who add too little to the CS rather than a little more.
 
Clothing is used as an example to comment on descriptions as a whole- And so the same goes for me.

And sure, I absolutely agree the clothing in the CS specifically is rather redundant 99% of the time, and when it isn't it's because we're talking preferential or most common clothing and it's being done exceptionally well. That said I do not find that to be in of itself a reason not to include it. I will not presume to know the motivations nor the skill of one who does do it, even if I don't, but with the exceptions of the information becaming contraditory or come at the expense of other, more relevant information, I do see a reason why it would be harmful to include it in the CS. And those don't seem to be all that common either. You most often find choices of outfit on prebuilt OCs which if nothing else do tend to be thought about in much more thorough detail, so missing key information is typically not an issue. And they do tend to at least start just wearing that outift.

My disagreement with the OP is that I find their criteria to be a bad criteria, because it both fails to account for the simple nature of roleplaying (a medium where you can't predict what will or not be relevant and where you yourself have the most control over what will or not become relevant for your specific character and/or plot) and ascribes a negative value to something which at worst is just extra information that isn't doing any harm (barring the aforementioned exceptions).


But that goes for literally anything you try to "show not tell", there will always be people who will just not get it, in fact I'm willing to bet over half the time nobody gets most subtext in any given work. As the roleplay goes on and the character displays more of that behavior, hopefully the idea will get across and people will be able to appreciate how it shows in how the character dresses as well. Even if they don't "people may not get it" is an inevitability, surely nothing that should discourage one from trying to communicate something in a given way, unless you're talking about absolutely crucial information to share, at which point you should just say it directly.


You mean to suggest that I should have an obligation or rather, that I'm doing something wrong by expressing how the character is through details on them, instead of specifically catering to the point of view of an unknown number of people that I know little to nothing about?

I'm not assuming anyone has my point of view, that's not a requirement for describing things in a given way or trying to show character points through certain behaviors and choices. I shouldn't wine about people misunderstanding my character either of course- but the character isn't an appeal to other people, it's not meant for other people, a character is its own entity.

You misunderstood my point about knowing your audience is tied to by point about the subjective nature of fashion.

Basically if you are trying to convey something to your partner through fashion you should probably make sure your partner is someone for whom fashion is a language they are familiar with.

If not your wasting their time and your own. Because they aren’t going to care what the character is wearing and you will have wasted your time adding details that aren’t going to be valued.

It’s about understanding that the CS is as much about explaining your character to another person as it is fleshing out the character for yourself.
 

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