Other How much is enough? [thread of multi-para post length]

[kevintheradioguy]

So, everyone here likes receiving long posts. That, of course, is a lie, as I know there are some people who like short 2-5 sentence posts, but what I mean to say, if you do prefer short posts in your RPs, this thread is not for you. No disrespect intended, it's just something I think only people who like large posts can reply. Kind of like you cannot reply what sort of tomato you like more, when you hate tomatoes, right?

So, my point being, there are plenty of people who write big, beautiful posts that is a pleasure to read; others, however, can write you what looks like a bucket of water - a lot of it, no taste or colour. Now, one might say that it's the writing experience, and the more eloquent the language is, the more interesting it is to read, however, after reading a few children's book recently for small research need, I am starting to doubt that. Those are written in a very simple manner, childish, so the target audience can understand them, and yet, they are interesting to read. I have had an immensely literate partner, who used language perfectly, but I was bored reading their game for some reason. I shouldn't have been, there was nothing wrong with it, but I was dragging myself through it like a dying whale, waiting for it to be over with.

So there is this ethereal "something", that makes your post overt the top, and too much to handle. I am thinking, people can drag simple things out too much, describing their thoughts and emotions in slow, unfitting for them manner, like going paragraphs to describe ones anger, using their best language, while the emotion itself does not "feel" eloquent - it feels fast, cutting, burning, and very primal and simple. Perhaps, descriptions of one's beautiful eye colour takes too much space that you just want to skip it altogether. Or perhaps you threw too much dialogue between your character and her friend into the game, and your partner would've interrupted it ten times by the posts end.

So, writing a post, when do you think you should stop? In post length, your descriptions, dialogues with NPCs, etc.? What do you feel makes for a good, dynamic multi-paragraph post? And on that matter, are you feeling comfortable to ask or be asked by your partner to edit and break your post in a specific place, because it's too long, and their character would've done something that would jeopardise the rest of the post?

 

[rae2nerdy]

I don’t overthink it. I write until I feel like I have said what I wanted to say. If my partner would like me to change it or clarify I’m happy to do so

 

[Bone2pick]

So, writing a post, when do you think you should stop?

Imo that should be determined on a case by case basis. It's akin to asking: when should you end a song, or how long should a "love" scene last?

 

[kevintheradioguy]

when should you end a song, or how long should a "love" scene last?

You'd be surprised, but I do have strong beliefs about these examples.

 

[Bone2pick]

You'd be surprised, but I do have strong beliefs about these examples.

That is a little surprising, and I'm skeptical about the validity of those beliefs. Imo the more interesting/important question in your example with your partner is: what were the reasons you found her post boring? I would imagine those reasons are more to do with her execution than the post's word count.

 

[Idea]

So, writing a post, when do you think you should stop?

When you can no longer make a logical sequence or you've reached the pivotal turning point of a scene, both of which having undertaken every detail of info in reaction to what your partner presented. If I had to draw a line when to absolutely stop, this would be it.

What do you feel makes for a good, dynamic multi-paragraph post?

Purpose, progress and atmosphere. We all know the obvious one, the post has to progress the action and take it in some direction, providing content for your partner to work with. However, I'd argue two other elements are just as important to a detailed post: Atmosphere and purpose.

Atmosphere is the reason why repetition is not an actual issue. if you spend two paragraphs descriving someone's wrath, if that wrath is something the character is obsessing over or which drives a major decision, that makes perfedt sense to focus on. In a detailed RP, atmosphere is creating the experience of a scenario. It includes both the establishing of the scene, through things like detailed the environment, narrating some info that gives context to things etc... but it also is supposed to help you connect with the character's mindset, understand that perspective and what's going through their mind as they act in the world, even when said actions are wrong.

Finally, and this is the pivotal aspect for the well-written post, purpose. I cannot stress enough how important it is that every line you write has some meaning to the grand scheme of things. Every line ought to contribute in some way, to work in the post as a whole, it ought to have meaning and only you can give it meaning. There are plenty of ways to give it meaning too: Foreshadowing, redherring, characterization... As a rule of thumb, every line should serve at least 2 purposes in your narrative.

And on that matter, are you feeling comfortable to ask or be asked by your partner to edit and break your post in a specific place, because it's too long, and their character would've done something that would jeopardise the rest of the post?

Not really. If my partner is that lacking in base flexbility that they have to change my post on a level because they can't conceive of a scenario where their character wouldn't have allowed mine to speak, then either there is a very veyr good reason for why they were so desperate to speak or that partner is the kind of person I can't work with.

 

[hologram]

This is a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately because I've had a few partners within the past few months who wrote long posts that were exceedingly difficult to reply to for the reasons listed here. The biggest issue I've had involves people who make their posts long by stuffing way too much character dialogue and action into them. For example, I recently had difficulty with a confrontation between two characters. My character was really angry at the other character and had no intention to listen to what they had to say. The post that gave me trouble contained a lot of dialogue speaking to my character and even some physical action that involved physical contact with my character near the end of the post.

But given the emotional state of my character there was no way he would have allowed the character to speak for that long, much less touch him. It felt somewhat like god-modding, like my partner was trying to force a specific response out of my character that I felt he was in no mood to give.

I try to pay special attention to dialogue and end posts with dialogue right when I feel it would make the most sense, based on the context of the scene and the current pacing, for another character to reply. I think some situations do lend themselves more to monologue-type posts but it's usually something I check in with my partner about beforehand. Like "hey I'm going to have my dude give some long exposition, should I try to break it up or give it to you in one go?", that sort of thing.

Writing for RP isn't a one-size-fits-all approach and I feel like some folks treat it as it is because they're too attached to the concept of a minimum post length. (And to be fair, I have my minimums as well, but I consider them flexible minimums that I'm willing to change if the situation calls for it.)

I think were I to put my partner in a similar situation, I'd be more than happy to break the post up into multiple parts.

I might post my thoughts on the rest of your topics at another time, too.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

Boring in writing doesn't usually have anything to do with length, but interest in content. There will be people who enjoy reading Shakespeare. There will be people that don't. I'll admit, I'm part of the latter half for the most part. People can write in a perfectly literate, even eloquent, manner but if the subject doesn't interest you then of course you'd be dragging through it. The fact that you're even willing to drag through it speaks volumes about your diligence.

For example, someone manages to write multiple lines describing how their character brushes their teeth. It's not a very interesting topic topic to you. However, they feel all that detail is necessary, or at least pretty for their character's narrative. Perhaps, for them, rping is more a writing exercise. They find beauty in words. Or they/their character have a very verbose narrative. Or, perhaps, their character simply thinks too much and their mind tends to wander to trivial topics. Whichever the case, if you have no interest in it, it'll be like slugging through a textbook. Not very enjoyable. When that happens I skim-read through to the important parts (I do this with textbooks sometimes too because there's way too much info, not all of it necessary).

What makes a book/post interesting is different for every person. For me, if I like the character, I'll always find their posts a joy to read because it's more insight to them. If I dislike the character, my bias will probably make me read the post a bit more critically. The boring stuff will just be boring because I really don't care. There's more to it of course. Sometimes I read a post and I feel the dialogue is forced. Or their character is acting far too out-of-character...but then I just accept that as part of their character and get over it Can't say I rp with people expecting good writing (quite certain mine is no literary work either). It's nice of course, but so long as it gives me something I can respond to then I'm satisfied. Length doesn't usually have anything to do with it.

When writing a post, I stop once my character's done all I wanted them to do/say/think during that time. Like geeking out, I don't really overthink it. Though it's probably nice to stop off in a manner that the other rper(s) could respond to. Descriptive writing isn't my forte. You'll rarely find me describing my character's clothes or focusing too much on their appearance IC (unless it's somehow important). I stick to my character's thoughts. For me, dynamic writing has a certain voice to it. Don't know how else to describe it. It just...flows well. I have no problems breaking my posts if someone asks. Nor do I have a problem asking other players to break their post...though I usually don't, simply because I don't care enough to. I will respond to whatever they write, though if they've written too much, my character may only respond to one or two things (usually the most recent action). It's not that my character is ignoring all their other previous actions, it's just I don't feel the need to backtrack unless it's something I really want to respond to. Monologues don't bother me. My character might even tell the character too their face that they talk too much lol. If their character is performing too many actions (that requires time), I assume my character isn't just standing their like an idiot and mention that they are doing their own thing while all those actions are going on in my post. That's it. For the most, I enjoy playing along with the scenes created by the people I rp with, and just respond to it the way my character would (the more surprising the scene, the more entertaining). If I don't I let them know.

 

[smallnscrappy]

So, writing a post, when do you think you should stop? In post length, your descriptions, dialogues with NPCs, etc.? What do you feel makes for a good, dynamic multi-paragraph post? And on that matter, are you feeling comfortable to ask or be asked by your partner to edit and break your post in a specific place, because it's too long, and their character would've done something that would jeopardise the rest of the post?

This is really tricky, and I struggle with this a lot. How much is too much, when do we put the pedal to the metal, pump the brakes, hit the gas, when are we being redundant in our illustration.

There are a so many different writing styles and techniques. At the end of the day, what works for me is aesthetic. What is the aesthetic of your story? If you are telling a epic war saga in a gritty, depressing world about star crossed lovers and potentially unreliable narrator, you are probably going to be a little Shakespearean. If you are writing a slice of life piece, you might write a little more straight forward. Insert another wink

I pick my writing style based on the story I am telling and the character. How long my responses are is entirely dependent on how the character would react, respond, or speak in that particular scenario. I have had numerous professors tell me that less is more and to keep descriptions of landscapes and people limited to three to five sentences. It is better to use accurate adjectives than drawn out, wordy sentences. Your writing partner will become bored or annoyed, and you can accomplish just as much with far less page space.

I also think about what a realistic conversation would look like. When I am speaking face to face with another person over a difficult topic I am not gesturing wildly, flailing wildly, falling to my knees, spinning around or making my eyes tremble in the dewy sunlight. If the aesthetic of your story is Anime, those types of responses might be appropriate, but for any other character or person in a conversation, there is give and take. One person will speak, and then the other will speak. What I observe is what I write. I am fortunate enough to have a writing partner who operates in very much the same way. Our flow is very natural, and the responses are seamless.

Our relationship was not always like this. We went through phases of pure, unadulterated, literary NONSENSE and I'm sure we probably wanted to strangle each other. But at the end of the day, we are not each other's editors. Unless my friends ask for critique, I do not offer it. If someone asked me to edit my responses based on word count then it is game on, you have opened the flood gates and I expect you to adhere to that same system. Additionally, If someone does something stupid enough to totally derail the story, I will absolutely say something.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

Personally, my approach to writing is pretty heavily centered around the idea of less is more. While I'm writing a post, I'm just as much focused on what I can remove from it as I am on what I can add to it. How much and what that is exactly is very dependent on the RP and the character, but once you've got it figured out I think its something that lends a lot to a post in terms of readabilty, and general narriative strength. Cutting out unneeded descriptions, thoughts, and fluff in general not only leads to there being less stuff for your reader to trudge through, but it also forces the spotlight onto the stuff that's cool and important. Better for your longer posts to be a seires of 'short and sweet' rather than a bunch of nuggets hidden in a sea of fluff.

Don't be afraid to kill your babies, basically, no matter how much it might hurt. Writing is just as much about destruction as it is creation, and learning the balance between the down helps heavily in reaching that 'perfect post length', if you ask me.

Maybe that got a bit off topic. I dunno. fite me.

 

[Sibelle Grey]

So, writing a post, when do you think you should stop? In post length, your descriptions, dialogues with NPCs, etc.? What do you feel makes for a good, dynamic multi-paragraph post? And on that matter, are you feeling comfortable to ask or be asked by your partner to edit and break your post in a specific place, because it's too long, and their character would've done something that would jeopardise the rest of the post?

I pulled up a roleplay of mine to reread poss and be able to answer this beyond "Do what feels right". Because there have been times when what felt right, looking back, makes me cringe. So if we're talking about the quality of the roleplay post (criteria to be updated: readability, substance to reply to, general lack of roleplaying sins, and tone), I'd say I stop when:

1- realistically, my partner's character(s) should reply or react. I'm actually trying to improve at this because I have a couple of characters who tend to monologue in this one roleplay, that particular partner doesn't seem to mind it because that's just who they are as character, and sometimes her character goes on tangents, which I enjoy greatly because she writes so well and it's part of his characterization. But I'm making an effort to be mindful about this because I can get carried away, especially when I haven't written for that particular roleplay in a bit.

2- there's nothing useful left to say. Trim away unnecessary sentences that add nothing to either the plot, the scene, your partner's visualization of where the characters are, or who the characters are as people. I read up on purple prose and avoid it as much as I can. Concerning weather, it isn't something to steer clear of entirely-- if it's been hot for months and the monsoon finally hits, that might be important to the characters. If it keeps getting hotter and hotter, that might mean it's almost time for (insert religious event here). If it's terribly cold where your characters are, your character from a tropical climate might be unwilling to leave their room and lowkey depressed. It's not the weather itself that's important, although it can set the tone, it's how it makes the characters feel or how it affects the plot or, mentioned in passing, shows the passing of time or the part of the world we're in.

Spoiler: example

ex: in one of my fantasy kingdoms, the white wolves from the Queen's menagerie go home to the kingdom from which they were gifted when it gets this hot out-- in a couple of sentences, you've established that these kingdoms are friendly (and wealthy, and frivolous enough to send animals south and back north then south again that have no business being that far south, just because they're pretty and reminded someone of the queen's hair) and that this other kingdom we knew little about is really, very cold most of the year, or large enough to have parts that are freezing all year round.

In post length, I don't really think there's a limit, as long as everything you're writing adds something to the roleplay.
If we're riding towards an ancient fortress of my creation, I'll give a general description, for example, for my partner to visualize. If my character doesn't pay much attention to architecture, I won't get into it, I'll give a general description of the structure-- if it is that one character who adores it and would realistically consider key features and a four-sentence history, that's going in the post. But that description wouldn't take more than a paragraph or two, and it would always tie back to revealing something about the character, how this fortress makes them feel, why they're taking ten lines to appraise it and whether that's realistic considering the way I've set them up to think. If my partner expects roughly four paragraphs from me and I'm writing ten or eleven substantial ones, I let them know there's a wall of text I'm working on coming their way in my next post (and reassure them that they do not have to reply with a similar wall of text, depending on the partner). Very long posts can spend some time in my private workshop, usually because it's a scene I've been thinking about for months and started writing this reply a while back, and that gives me time to trim the unnecessary. Delete anything that doesn't really serve a purpose. Long posts for the sake of length are kinda useless-- if you write six paragraphs and only six sentences of that are important, you might as well have just written those six sentences. Which isn't to say posts should be utilitarian and entirely bare, but it's a balance to strike and many of us confuse "good writing" with "excessively flowery writing".
I do mostly just write what feels right, but when I re-read, I try to delete things the post could do without.

In dialogues with NPCs, if it's an NPC my partner's character would realistically interact with, I cut off the post when I think that interaction would occur. If not, if it's something like a three-way conversation, my partner adds their character's reply to a particular thing in their next post and I take that into consideration in my own next post as if they'd said it in real time. To avoid any confusion, it's best to just stop when you feel that an irl third person (here, the partner's character) might say or do something.

Or perhaps you threw too much dialogue between your character and her friend into the game, and your partner would've interrupted it ten times by the posts end.

Basically. If you're writing dialogue with NPCs, don't write out entire conversations your partner's character isn't going to be a part of. This is roleplaying, not personal solo writing. If you're certain your partner's character would have no reason to say anything (they just met the NPC and aren't the talkative type, for example) really just give them highlights of the conversation. Parts that reveal something about your character's relationship with the NPC, or some backstory, or something. Just don't write out a whole conversation that's legitimately just your character and their bestie talking about books if it adds nothing.


I wouldn't mind being asked to cut off a post if I have to. The whole "character would have done x so my character's next action makes no sense" can often be avoided by reading the scene, knowing the characters' relationship, and reaching rather than grabbing to avoid godmoding. If your character's angry enough to want to throttle someone else's character, rather than "she strangled him", go with "she lunged for his neck" or something. Give the other character a chance to dodge, or duck, react too late and take a slap to the face, not react at all and nearly be choked to death. Give the other roleplayer a say in what happens to their character. Don't write that your character "took her hand in his and led her down the hallway" unless you're pretty sure that relationship's at a place and in a context where she would actually let her hand be held and follow that person down that hallway. Have them reach for the hand, or take it, stop there, and let the other player have their character react to the handholding.

 

[Corvin the Crow]

So basically role playing is suppose to be like a conversation? I mean, when the magic just flows while you are having a good conversation with someone, you know, both of you keep bringing on interesting and stimulating topics and the chat keep going naturally........... Idk my experience is limited to tabletop RP, i'm trying to figure out this forum thing

 

[unais]

Now, one might say that it's the writing experience, and the more eloquent the language is, the more interesting it is to read

Personally, I would never, ever say that because I've read so much long and meandering worthless bullshit to be fooled by pretty language. Is this writing a shotgun or a rifle? Does it try to hit everything, cover all possible bases instead of having a real focus and point to what it's doing? Or is it like lining up one shot from a rifle-- being precise to what it's doing.

I look at something, long or short, and see "what is this actually saying"?

Technique or substance? If I had to take one, only one, I'd always choose substance. I can take someone who has poor grammar but excellent character integrity, understanding of interpersonal reactions, and good ideas. That person, in itself, is rare, but it does happen.

I also want the minimum that you need to write to set the scene. If that means 30 paragraphs, that's fine. If that means one paragraph, also fine.

So, my point being, there are plenty of people who write big, beautiful posts that is a pleasure to read; others, however, can write you what looks like a bucket of water - a lot of it, no taste or colour. Now, one might say that it's the writing experience, and the more eloquent the language is, the more interesting it is to read, however, after reading a few children's book recently for small research need, I am starting to doubt that. Those are written in a very simple manner, childish, so the target audience can understand them, and yet, they are interesting to read. I have had an immensely literate partner, who used language perfectly, but I was bored reading their game for some reason. I shouldn't have been, there was nothing wrong with it, but I was dragging myself through it like a dying whale, waiting for it to be over with.

So there is this ethereal "something", that makes your post overt the top, and too much to handle. I am thinking, people can drag simple things out too much, describing their thoughts and emotions in slow, unfitting for them manner, like going paragraphs to describe ones anger, using their best language, while the emotion itself does not "feel" eloquent - it feels fast, cutting, burning, and very primal and simple. Perhaps, descriptions of one's beautiful eye colour takes too much space that you just want to skip it altogether. Or perhaps you threw too much dialogue between your character and her friend into the game, and your partner would've interrupted it ten times by the posts end.

It's all about content, unfortunately.

Like you said, you've experienced long meandering posts or posts that get from point A to B but my question is did the journey have to be that long? Was the journey interesting, or was it, honestly, worthless? This is why I don't discriminate against either long or short posts. It's as long as it needs to be. To fluff, literally, nothing, even if the grammar is perfect and the technique is flawless, produces an awful experience when it can be simmered down to. "He blinked, and smiled before moving on."

Is it content heavy rather than word heavy? If it's a long post because it NEEDED every single one of those sentences, then it should be more interesting by its base concept after you've stripped away all preface of grammar and pomp around it (yes, seriously. Stick with me here). After THAT, if the concept itself is interesting, then you start with good grammar, and then you go on with stylizing your writing. If those things all work together, then maybe you have something interesting.

It does help to understand that things such as cadence, short or long words, short or long sentences, can create a certain pacing to what's being said and add to whether something can feel sharp or soft, confusing or astute etc. And then the other concept such as leaving what's unsaid instead of trying to screw down every edge of what feels as the emotion of anger, as if you're trying to nail down every instance of what the other person reading could think. That doesn't work. You gotta let go of that idea of controlling every thought of your reader, and understand you're just putting guideposts and points for them to follow along. Not dragging them along at your pace with their hand firmly held in yours. You can't control what steps they take to get from point to point. You end up with too many details.

Is telling the reader, again, what color the characters eyes are, something that adds to the content of the post? Probably not. Does the way their hair is falling pulchritudinously along their comely backside mean anything to what's happening in the conversation between them? Not really, no. Is the sunlight, actually important in the scene? Maybe, if the sun falling means they don't have much more time to talk. If it means something is happening. If it indicates ANYTHING besides just existing as a detail.

The writer needs some understand that leaving out all these details creates an even stronger experience. It's also great to come to the same conclusions together without spelling something out.

Back to technique: without understanding that besides what words say, what they do comes into play, you have people who sometimes end up with details that go on and on and paint a pretty, but altogether useless picture.

Write it in as little words as possible. It's distilling something down to its purest essence. Whether that is 15-30 paragraphs or two sentences, it doesn't really matter to me as long as everything was responded to and that's what it needs.

Put it like this as well: cake and icing.

Is the cake bland, though holding up well and just enough to be vanilla and passable? And then the icing, as icing usually is, is fairly delicious candy to put on top of it? Would it hold up under the weight of more cake layers?

If that's the case, what's the point of eating the cake? Wading through sugary sweet icing just to have mediocre cake. It's a drag. It's work.

How about if the cake, itself, plain, is so fucking delicious you almost don't need anything else. What if it was crafted with such precise perfection that it's fantastic on its own, and then it can hold up the rest of the layers of cake to go on top of it.

But then you add icing.

And then it's amazing.

tl;dr: you have the basic gist of it. Poorly used technique is boring, meandering, and sometimes controlling. The length of something should be dictated by what's needed, by what the content is, and according to how you're RPing with your partner and all as well. Once you have content down, then of course you have all the play room you want with stylizing how the content is delivered. How one word changes the pacing of the entire paragraph.

And ffs do it in the smallest amount of words possible. Simple is difficult. It is HARD to figure out how little you need to say to move on. Don't get confused. Minimizing and cutting all the fat doesn't mean necessarily mean you will end up with short posts. At all. If it does, then you probably didn't have much to say in the first place. If not, if it's all cut out and still pretty hefty... it leaves you something really worth reading.

To note, when you mix batter, you mix it until it's just mixed, and no more. No overdoing it.

It sounds like the cop-out hipster answer but ffs Hemmingway never wasted one word.

 

[Mr.Issimo]

What do you feel makes for a good, dynamic multi-paragraph post?

I agree with unais ; I would say that the downfall of many large pieces of writing is that portions of it are unnecessary. A defining feature of any good work is that every word has a point and a purpose.

 

[Idea]

Mr.Issimo if I may disagree for a moment, I would argue unnecessary and pointless are two entirely different concepts. Something can be full of meaning and impact to a narrative, without being in any sense strictly necessary.

 

[Anamnesis]

For me, it comes down to a question to purpose. If the idea behind the post is to prevent information (such as a scene-set, GM post, etc) then I tend to forego unnecessary detail in favor of readability and clarity. If I am giving a description of something being witnessed ICly (like a character or location description, or describing a song playing in-world) then I'll grow quite long winded, as the point is supposed to be palpability not clarity.
When characters are conversing, I try to stick to one 'thought' per post so the conversation bounces naturally. I suppose I don't really care how long that thought ends up being, or how much flavor text is around it, as long as it's just one thought.

 

[yanastyboi]

The writing you're describing makes me think of a fan fiction I recently read where the author wasn't shy about using periods. What struck me was the way it felt to read. Clear stops that indicated the end of one idea and the start of the next. The way it ended up reading, the feeling it gave my brain, was clarity and structure. The author didn't use any fancy language, it was all quite familiar, but the structure of their paragraphs was that gave it that freshness.

Sometimes I feel like it isn't so much the language or the length of a piece of writing. Rather it's structure that can make it easy or difficult to read. Something as simple as knowing how to break up a piece of writing. Such as new lines for each dialog, knowing how a paragraph works and to split it on every new idea. It's little things that make multi paragraph RP and post with length easier to read / refreshing / different from other pieces of writing the same length.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

Ask yourself one question: "Am I trying to communicate something to this person, or am I just enjoying the sound of my own voice?" and be honest with yourself. That's all you need.