Character Theory How do I avoid "unfortunate implications" in my characters? (Or: How do I avoid writing problematic characters?)

PopcornPie

Dazed, confused, but chugging on.
As you can tell by my pfp, my main RP character was Giffany from Gravity Falls. That changed when Dad discovered a folder where I kept several pictures of her, then he found out who she is, and then he forbid me to use her ever again due to "unfortunate implications" in the way I wrote her personality. Specifically, he was unhappy about how airheaded she is.

At first, I was super mad. But looking back at her behavior...

[I was gonna make a collage of her worst moments, but I wasn't sure if it would turn out legible so here's a Google Photos album instead]


...Yiiiiiikes, am I right? I didn't think through the implications at all. I don't know how it never came to me that "maybe having her be THIS naïve, THIS clumsy, and THIS emotional, is a problem. Maybe I've gone too far".

With me trying to get into this site, and potentially beginning some new roleplays, I want to avoid getting another Giffany. I want-and probably need-to experiment with new personality types, but I don't want to end up making bad characters without knowing it.

How can I write dynamic characters, but prevent myself from forgetting to think through my implications?
 
So I’m not sure what you mean by insensitive? From what little I read she seemed a bit like a Mary Sue but not like racist or bigoted?

I mean making your character a walking talking stereotype isn’t bad as long as she faces consequences and there is a reason for their personality traits.

Example as someone who is actually clumsy it’s not about making comedy Pratt falls. In my case it’s because I have bad depth perception so I’ll trip or run into things because I can’t tell how far away they are. So something I’ll do is when rounding a corner or something I put out my hand so I know when I’m too close.

Or if I’m being distracted by daydreaming about a book I’m reading I might walk into stuff but I usually act like it didn’t happen and just keep moving on. I don’t call attention to it. Most folks I know who are really clumsy do the same. We’re aware we have an issue and we don’t make it a big deal.

So that brings me to a second point if you want to make new characters base them on people you know in real life. Actually observe those people to see if they have little quirks that might make them unique. And when roleplaying ask yourself “How would person C react in this scenario.”

Lastly let your character fail. Let them be disliked by other people. Let them face real consequences for their flaws.

Ex, to use the clumsy example I roll my ankles a lot and my mom actually ended up spraining her ankle and being on crutches because she tripped and fell badly on her own ankle, that’s a good consequence that would make life difficult and uncomfortable for a “clumsy” character.
 
Yee, she was a little Sueish. I'll give you that. She coulda used a couple more flaws. Flaws could have redeemed her a little.

But yeah, her problem is she is a stereotype. She's a stereotypical stupid girl.

That being said, I did come up with a reason for her being loopy: she was stuck in virtuality since 1996, so she lacks social skills and general caution. She was a fish out of water.

Watching real people sounds like a good idea, part of the problem may be that I was influenced too much by characters like Pinkie Pie, Yuno Gasai, and Deku, without really thinking about why they work and Giffany doesn't.
 
Honestly I don't see much of a problem with your writing, nor do I see sterotypes being problematic. When I read the word problematic it makes me think of terrible characters who are validated and shown to be correct in their thinking by the writing rather than the writer portraying the character as awful with the appropriate weight their actions deserve.

But experimenting with personality types is always a great idea! If you're looking to branch out in that way I'd suggest reading as many novels from as many genres as you can get your hands on to begin with. Be critical of the media you consume, ask yourself why you like some characters and dislike others, break down popular characters from their base level traits to deeper traits that influence their choices. Deku, for example, on the surface can be seen as an unrelentingly optimistic emotional character but he's capable of being very serious, he's methodical, he has knowingly and willingly used people's weaknesses against them. He's loyal to a genuine and dangerous fault and though he does everything for the greater good he doesn't always follow the law in doing so, so that means 'good' to him is beyond what is legally good, it's morally good.

Then, finally, just try. Throw stuff at the wall and see what works. The only way to try and write new personalities and characters is to do it. Tell your partner that you're trying something new, even, so you're less concerned about 'messing up' or 'failing' in any way. And most importantly, let your characters grow. They can start off as a stereotypical stupid girl but by the end of the RP they should be layered and different. They should change through the thread and through whatever it is they experience, for better or for worse.
 
When I read the word problematic it makes me think of terrible characters who are validated and shown to be correct in their thinking by the writing rather than the writer portraying the character as awful with the appropriate weight their actions deserve.
In canon, Giffany was a textbook yandere, essentially a digitized version of Yuno Gasai.

What I did was keep her past in there, but have her decide that she wants to change. I don't think I validated her bad actions, and if I did it was completely unintentional. She had the internal conflict of wondering if she really did change, if she was just going to relapse and start attacking people again. It's a mental weight on her shoulders and a huge source of anxiety for her, despite all the love she receives from the townsfolk. I didn't show it in the excerpts, but I still mentioned on separate occasions that people in-universe still see her as a hazardous yandere. So she has to prove herself as well.

...That all sounded harmless in my head, but writing it now?...Eep.
And most importantly, let your characters grow. They can start off as a stereotypical stupid girl but by the end of the RP they should be layered and different. They should change through the thread and through whatever it is they experience, for better or for worse.
I really liked what I was doing with Giffany, that might've been her downfall. She ended up becoming rigid. Perhaps in her main thread, she could have grown to become more realistic by the end. She wouldn't become a straight up pessimist, but would come to understand that not everything can be solved as happily as she'd like.
 
Yee, she was a little Sueish. I'll give you that. She coulda used a couple more flaws. Flaws could have redeemed her a little.

But yeah, her problem is she is a stereotype. She's a stereotypical stupid girl.

That being said, I did come up with a reason for her being loopy: she was stuck in virtuality since 1996, so she lacks social skills and general caution. She was a fish out of water.

Watching real people sounds like a good idea, part of the problem may be that I was influenced too much by characters like Pinkie Pie, Yuno Gasai, and Deku, without really thinking about why they work and Giffany doesn't.

Yeah some characters do use a happy go lucky exterior to cover for internal stress or uncertainty but you have to show the juxtaposition to the audience. Have them act outwardly like everything is fine and cheery but internally have them be uncertain or overly anxious. That’s the beauty of roleplay, you get to see the character not just from the outside but from the inside as well.

It’s called building an internal life. It is what makes your character seem more realistic than just a few traits thrown together. Looking at real life people or reading a lot of character driven narratives will help you build that.

So for instance if your character was in a virtual reality (?) this would likely lead to a sense of dissociation. As if they couldn’t feel certain of what is real and what is fake. Likely they would struggle with consequences of their actions or forming meaningful connections. In response to this internal fear they might overcompensate in the opposite direction by being always cheerful and over dramatic. A way of proving they’re okay and adjusting when they’re really not. So in that case you can look at them being one way outwardly to the people they interact with while being completely different internally.

It’s one of the things about over the top characters. They do exist in real life but their overt ways exist for a reason. Maybe it’s attention seeking, maybe it’s overcompensating for some internal anxiety, maybe it’s just societal pressure, but no one acts “just because”. There is always some external or internal justification.


I did a very similar over the top character (she wasn’t clumsy but then she could fly and was super arrogant). And she definitely used her over the top nature purely as an attention seeking tactic. She would loudly draw attention to herself and her own awesomeness all the time. And she got pushback for it by others calling her selfish and egocentric. She didn’t care or change but as the write I did acknowledge their distaste and have the character work against it, in her case by doubling down, but a more self aware character might use it as a stepping stone to improvement.
 
I'm not understanding the problem. The writing was fine and the actions in the few blurbs that I checked out didn't seem to have any mary sue tendencies. So what exactly are you asking for. Are you afraid of having a racist character or something? Or are you just overly conscious of your ideas?
 
Admittedly I didn't read through all of them, but from what I saw.... I really don't see any huge problems with her? She's not the type of character I personally tend to enjoy, but I don't see much wrong with how you're writing her. You can always add complexity in if you feel it's lacking, but I don't understand what the exact issue is. Really not sure what 'unfortunate implications' your dad meant, and it might be worth asking him for clarification.

Airheads exist. The only thing I can see with her is that she might be a bit excessively exuberant... but if that fits the universe and character then it isn't a problem either. If it is something you feel is a problem, then simply tone it down.

Again, I'm not really sure how she counts as problematic so you might want to clarify that point, but if you're wanting to write more realistic/accurate characters then there's a very simple solution: reading.

If you want to write for this specific character, go back to watching the source material from where she comes. Look up fanfiction that writes her in a way you find admirable/awesome. Don't copy the style exactly, but figure out what it is about how she's written that appeals to you. Then take that knowledge, apply it to your own writing style, and voila. In general, reading widely and paying attention to things like how dialogue is handled, inner thought life of characters, and general descriptions of their behaviour helps IMMENSELY in improving your own writing.
 
The only thing thats problematic here is your Dad telling you what you can and can't write in RP. Unless you are doing something offensive, illegal or non-age-appropriate with your characters I don't think it's any of his business. Its a bit thought-policey if you ask me.
 
Yeah I would also ask your dad what specifically he found so offensive about the character. Because I don't see anything really that bad about the examples you showed us.

But I do have a good example of what IS a problematic character and how to avoid making one.

PROBLEMATIC - THOSE PEOPLE ACT X WAY
So if your writing from a minority perspective based on skin color, gender, sexuality, and/or nationality than you do have to be careful you don't fall into harmful or offensive stereotypes. The easiest way to test this is ask yourself "Why does my character act this way?" If the answer is "That's how X minority group acts" than your writing an offensive character.

Ex 1. "Why is my female character a housewife?" Answer "That's a woman's place."

Ex 2. "Why is my gay character acting feminine and flamboyant?" Answer "That's how gays act."

Ex 3. "Why is my black character a drug dealer?" Answer "All blacks are thugs."

In case it's not super clear, these are all extremely offensive stereotypes of minority people that should never be allowed into a roleplay. And they all fall under the umbrella of "My character acts X way because 'those people' all act X way."

FIX IT WITH CONTEXT

So how do you fix these offensive characters? By never making a woman that's a housewife? A gay character that's flamboyant? A black character that's a drug dealer? No. People are not a monolithe and as long as you don't make EVERY woman/gay/black character act the same way than it's not going to be a big deal.

Instead what you need to do is give your character a specific reason to act a certain way that has nothing to do with their gender/sexuality/skin color/etc.

Ex 1. "Why is my female character a housewife?"
Answer "Because her husband moves a lot for work preventing her from having the opportunity to get a full time job. She also chooses to spend time with her kids because she wants to develop a bond with them and she doesn't personally believe in shipping them off to daycares."

Ex 2. "Why is my gay character acting feminine and flamboyant?"
Answer "He feels societal pressure to act this way so that he doesn't upset the people around them. They say they're okay with him being gay but when he tries to join sports teams or do anything traditionally masculine they get uncomfortable and suspicious. So he finds that playing the harmless gay girly boy gets him more acceptance."

Ex 3. "Why is my black character a drug dealer?"
Answer "He works for the local mafia in exchange for their protection against the corrupt cops of the city. He is especially worried about his younger cousins who he hopes can get into a good college with the money he makes." (this one is itself a little cliche so i'd be careful that i made other black characters not stereotypical)
 
I see...

I really should have asked for advice earlier. This is all really good stuff. I just wish I could put it to practice for Giffany.

Oh, well. There are other characters I can practice on. I do need to improve my Samus.
 
Another tip, this one for character making in general. Make sure your characters backstory and personality match up.

Ex. I had a person once pitch me a character whose backstory was that they were a jewel thief who stole for bragging rights. But their personality was that they were very cautious and didn't like to rock the boat. Obviously that made no sense from a character perspective.

So make sure to read through your character to sheet to make sure there are no obvious contradictions like that. Also don't have negative things happen to your character if you want follow through with the consequences.

Ex. If your character was beaten as a child than have them have trouble controlling their anger or expressing negative emotions. Since they were only taught to do that with violence as a child. And if you aren't sure/don't want to deal with the consequences of an action don't include it in the backstory.

Honestly people with perfectly happy childhoods can still have interesting personalities and storylines.
 
Why do you care? If you do not intent being "problematic", that's on people who see it, not you. You do characters you want, in my opinion, instead of trying to please speshul snowflakes of Tumblr. You do you, mate.
 
Well...um...I didn't want to make anyone upset by saying it exactly, but let me explain.

According to dad, having your most prominent female an airhead who has murdered in the past is sexist.
 
Mmm I think your dad is wrong, or maybe doesn't understand the definition of what sexism is. He's free to dislike the character, but she's not a sexist character.
Sexism is defined as:
1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex
especially : discrimination against women​
2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

Female murderers in general are comparatively rare... it's not a stereotypical female role, nor does it show any prejudice or discrimination against women. It's actually very far from either of those things. Writing an airheaded character is also not inherently sexist... many, many, MANY people are quite airheaded.

If you were actually sexist and made a character based on sexist values, an example might be a female character who lives to serve men as a housewife--with no other purpose in life.
In that case you're enforcing a stereotype, especially if she then isn't able to hold a job because she's "too emotional" and is considered "hysterical" any time she disagrees with a man.

THAT would be a character built off of sexist ideas. Your portrayal of Giffany doesn't fit that.

Again... this doesn't necessarily mean she's well-rounded or couldn't use some polishing (most characters can) but I'd be very curious to know why your dad feels that way, because from what I've seen and read she doesn't fall into that character type.
 
Hm...I never tried giving her a job, though? Giving her a sense of responsibility is also something I could have done to round her out. Her biggest role is a roleplay taking place entirely on a desert island, so there wasn't much opportunity to actually let her go and interact with society outside of one-shots and smaller RPs that didn't last long.

Her biggest crime, and what apparently makes her sexist, is her desire to have a special someone. In canon, all we really knew about her was that she was desperate enough to get her own boyfriend that she'd try to kill off any and all competition. Of course, I did tone this down and give her a boyfriend, but, looking back, I made the mistake of keeping her clingy/cuddlebug tendencies.

And it's also in her appearance, too...Dad wasn't a fan of her breast size. Especially because she was designed to look like an ordinary schoolgirl.
 
Well I don't know as I've ever been in a roleplay where breast size came up but I can definitely see how that would be super problematic if you gave her a big bust size for a young girl*

As to her wanting romance being sexist? No. Just a hundred percent no. Women are allowed to want stereotypical feminine things. They don't have to shun everything girly just because it's sometimes used against them by misogynistic men. I have met any number of women IRL who truly in their hearts want to get married and be stay at home moms. Not because they think it's their place. Not because they think it's all their good for. But because they personally think having kids and taking care of them is important. And that's a hundred percent their choice.

So yeah if you make a female characters whose one great goal in life is to have a boyfriend? That's fine. I mean it's a little one-note if that's ALL the character has going for them but it's hardly sexist. It's actually totally realistic. I know a woman in real life whose sole mission in life is to find some guy to shack up with. So yeah don't let anyone give you that nonsense that it's sexist or unrealistic or problematic or whatever.

** Also FYI something people often forget when writing big busty characters, that kind of thing actually hurts. It causes back problems and a lot of unwanted attention from the opposite sex. **
 
I don't agree with what dad thinks about her, but alas...once his mind is made, there's no fighting against it. Otherwise, I would love to try some of these tips with her. Exploring her depths would be so much fun.

All I can do is just leave her behind, and hope that I dodge the bullet with future characters.
 
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How does your dad even know what you're writing to micromanage you in this way? I know you said he found the folder with the pictures, but how did he know you were role-playing her and how did he find what you wrote? Do you let him read whatever you write even knowing he might react this way? Is he hovering like a phantom behind your back? Does he have a tracker on your writing history or every word document you've ever used? I'm very confused by this parenting your father is doing and how it affects you so drastically that you feel just because he doesn't agree with something you wrote and told you not to, you can't.

Does he block your sites with a parental block? What about Word documents? What about when you write things down in a notebook? Does he tear through those, too? What if he doesn't like an essay you've done for school and it took you hours to write it?

It'll be a breath of fresh air when you move out, let me tell you.
 
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i enjoy the psychological horror movie vibes of this thread
 
Heh, thanks...I guess this could be the part near the beginning where I abandon the old doll and then she comes crawling back to haunt me.
 
this whole situation is kinda bizarre to me. does your dad think if you write a character, you agree with all their ideals?

giffany is a 'sexist' character, kind of, but it's because she's parodying a sexist trope - the female love interest whose only personality trait is wanting to get with the male protagonist. she's a parody of dating sims where this sort've thing comes up a lot, it's not the writers trying to genuinely write a woman and thinking this is how they act, and it's really quite silly of your dad to ask you to stop playing her because of it..
 
this whole situation is kinda bizarre to me. does your dad think if you write a character, you agree with all their ideals?
No and yes. He thinks that by writing a character, I ENDORSE those ideals, intentionally or not.

giffany is a 'sexist' character, kind of, but it's because she's parodying a sexist trope - the female love interest whose only personality trait is wanting to get with the male protagonist. she's a parody of dating sims where this sort've thing comes up a lot
...Yeep, I'll hold my hands up high to that.
But in my defense, I was trying to move her away from that. The new point of her character was forgiveness, both from others and towards herself, and how you can give someone a second chance, but only if they want to change.
 

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