Other How can we fix roleplay commitment issues

[Idea]

I'd actually argue with this, honestly. In my opinion, rp'ing is more like a video game than it is to writing a novel (which is what I think you're comparing it to), hence my example of games that don't live up to their hype. And playing games is a hobby. While there are elements of literature present in roleplaying, and you literally are writing when you are typing up a reply, I see rp'ing being more akin to a game since you are playing a character, seeing what you can accomplish as said character, and how you can contribute to and shape the gameworld/plot as said character much like how you'd play an rpg.

"...people assume that if something is just boring them, it´s time to quit." Well that's just the thing. Since I see rps as games, I find this to be perfectly normal to think. Why put any more time into a game that is just plain boring you? And in my opinion, if you're bored of whatever it is that you're doing, you should stop and come back later when you are feeling more passionate. Especially of an rp. That way you aren't half-assing your replies that effect everyone else.

You made two mistakes about my position, and a third mistake that pertains not to my position, but to the overall question.

The first mistake is that, yes, I do see a connection to "writing a novel" in RPing, but more on that later, because it´s not the only thing I see it as. That mistake is that, in fact, I don´t JUST view it as pure writing. In it´s essence , roleplaying is, outside of any post-conceptual interpretation, taking the role of your character. Without that, its just not RPing. The game elements you mentioned are something I would place as more accurately depicting a form of acting or theater. You should be getting into the character´s mindset, in my view.

However, there is still room for a certain manipulation of what happens to make things interesting. This aspect is what I would consider binds RPing to writing novels. Because in a forum, unlike a game, there is one aspect that you can´t forget: regardless of what we choose to call it, it´s unquestionable that forum RPing requires WRITING. Like what I am doing right now. I cannot communicate this via a forum without writing it. All the posts are done in the form of writing. This is a fact. And also a fact is that writing itself has a certain way to be. Yes, writing can be fun immediately as you read it and occasionally maybe even as you write it. But playing a game you only consume an already made product, whereas in writing, you have to MAKE that product too. That is your second mistake in my position: the things I derived from writing, came from the very rules and facts about writing itself, about the act by which we roleplay, not about paralels of things that are also written.

You can and are supposed to enjoy roleplaying, don´t take me wrong. But you if you go and treat it like it´s supposed to be enjoyed right away, you forget that the medium lacks several things that makes others able to be enjoyed immediately. There is no light and sound. Not even straight reading about light and sound is exciting or anything else in that vein. The excitement of reading is more visceral, less impulsive. It´s something that builds up and in it´s twists and turns and ups and downs becomes interesting and pulls you in, you CAN`T make jumpscares in writing. Even if you could it would be after dozens of pages of build up to tense the reader. And that is not even accounting for the fact that things that take work are usually less than prompt to be immediately exciting, and at most feel rewarding after finishing.

THIS is the aspect I wanted to point out. You can´t expect writing to be immediately exciting just like that, like a game (taking your example), because it is writing. Because you can control it´s pace, and you can´t be affected by things before you can process them because reading takes processing the words etc...

Which leads me to your final mistake:

Even if you view roleplaying as playing a game, and therefore don´t feel like it´s nonsensical to drop something just because it isn´t immediately fun or rewarding, that doesn´t mean it´s not a problem still. That doesn´t mean that that mentality isn´t leading to a nice slice of the committment issues in a lot of roleplays. Even if you think it´s a natural problem that should be accepted as a norm, it´s still a problem, and it´s still root cause of the problem that this thread was inquiring about.

 

[Idea]

In my own experience, most rp's fizzle out and die when players have nothing to do and get bored. This is either because of poor gm'ing or dm'ing/leading or because the rp lacked a solid plot/objective to drive them forward in the first place.
In your rp, your game, it is your job to amuse your players. Your rp will not live for long if it's carried by players having conversations with each other. Things, events, etc. have to always be happening in your rp in order to keep people's attention. And as a gm/dm, you need to be able to pick up on early signs of people losing interest or getting bored and then work on catching that player's attention again in your next post.
I honestly think it is more of the gm's/dm's fault when players drop out due to being bored. If your players are bored, make things happen. A steady momentum is the key to keeping your rp alive.

oh and may I add that I am living proof this isn´t true? With a couple exceptions all my RPs died while I was still holding and letting in motion tons of material for the players plot and character wise, not to mention spending weeks crafting explorable settings and magic systems. I may not be the MOST entertaining person around, but just having stuff to do is clearly no solution for commitment issues although I would agree that a lack of a solid plot is a problem that leads to the uncommittment and boredom in various threads. Most notably, I would say, in school or free-roam styled threads.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

I would agree with you except for the fact that 90 percent of roleplays don't even make it in far enough for that to be an issue. Even with a committed GM who constantly drives things along, most people will clock out somewhere before the 4-5th page is down and characters are even established.

EDIT: As for fixing it, I find some of the group roleplays do better with smaller groups of people (3-5) with the additional encouragement to OOC as much as they IC.

OOC is a great health indicator of your RP.

Additionally, I find people get hung up waiting for others to post until it just dies. I like RPs where they have posting rules set in stone.

For example: You have till this date to post or we're moving on with or without you. If it takes longer than such and such time without word, your character is dead.

Too many roleplays have been killed because Janice, Billy, and Bob have had to wait on Timmy who had no intention of posting in the first place.

Had an rp die because two people kept the rest waiting for 5 days at a time. From that point I had to control myself or I would have raged at these people who just left us hanging cuz. "lol"

This type of thing happens way too often in rp's and it makes it hard to get back into it. Even though it's one of my favorite hobbies.

 

[Devious Dilbert]

You made two mistakes about my position, and a third mistake that pertains not to my position, but to the overall question.

The first mistake is that, yes, I do see a connection to "writing a novel" in RPing, but more on that later, because it´s not the only thing I see it as. That mistake is that, in fact, I don´t JUST view it as pure writing. In it´s essence , roleplaying is, outside of any post-conceptual interpretation, taking the role of your character. Without that, its just not RPing. The game elements you mentioned are something I would place as more accurately depicting a form of acting or theater. You should be getting into the character´s mindset, in my view.

However, there is still room for a certain manipulation of what happens to make things interesting. This aspect is what I would consider binds RPing to writing novels. Because in a forum, unlike a game, there is one aspect that you can´t forget: regardless of what we choose to call it, it´s unquestionable that forum RPing requires WRITING. Like what I am doing right now. I cannot communicate this via a forum without writing it. All the posts are done in the form of writing. This is a fact. And also a fact is that writing itself has a certain way to be. Yes, writing can be fun immediately as you read it and occasionally maybe even as you write it. But playing a game you only consume an already made product, whereas in writing, you have to MAKE that product too. That is your second mistake in my position: the things I derived from writing, came from the very rules and facts about writing itself, about the act by which we roleplay, not about paralels of things that are also written.

You can and are supposed to enjoy roleplaying, don´t take me wrong. But you if you go and treat it like it´s supposed to be enjoyed right away, you forget that the medium lacks several things that makes others able to be enjoyed immediately. There is no light and sound. Not even straight reading about light and sound is exciting or anything else in that vein. The excitement of reading is more visceral, less impulsive. It´s something that builds up and in it´s twists and turns and ups and downs becomes interesting and pulls you in, you CAN`T make jumpscares in writing. Even if you could it would be after dozens of pages of build up to tense the reader. And that is not even accounting for the fact that things that take work are usually less than prompt to be immediately exciting, and at most feel rewarding after finishing.

THIS is the aspect I wanted to point out. You can´t expect writing to be immediately exciting just like that, like a game (taking your example), because it is writing. Because you can control it´s pace, and you can´t be affected by things before you can process them because reading takes processing the words etc...

Which leads me to your final mistake:

Even if you view roleplaying as playing a game, and therefore don´t feel like it´s nonsensical to drop something just because it isn´t immediately fun or rewarding, that doesn´t mean it´s not a problem still. That doesn´t mean that that mentality isn´t leading to a nice slice of the committment issues in a lot of roleplays. Even if you think it´s a natural problem that should be accepted as a norm, it´s still a problem, and it´s still root cause of the problem that this thread was inquiring about.

Mistakes? My man, this is all just opinions.

But I want to give you a rebuttal to this later.

 

[Idea]

Mistakes? My man, this is all just opinions.

And opinions can be wrong and mistaken. In fact, most of them are.

ut I want to give you a rebuttal to this later.

Do go ahead. If I´m wrong, I´d love to be corrected. If I´m not wrong, then I will find a way to prove it.

 

[Idea]

Ouch. Why all the toxicity? We are all equals here, just casually throwing in their opinions. Lets not try to win this thing, cool? Cool. You are cool.

I am no trying to win things. Saying opinions can be wrong is just stating a fact. A usually ignored fact, but still a fact. Just because a person believes something doesn't necessarily mean they are right, and as such they stand to be corrected. That of course, includes myself. Correcting and perfecting our beliefs is the whole point of having discussions and sharing opinions.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I think of three things when I think of the best way to make a roleplay last

A. Roleplay with people you are friends with or who you communicate with daily ( or at least as close to daily as your schedule allows ).
The more of a personal connection you have to the people involved in the roleplay the greater the chances you will continue the roleplay. It also makes communicating your needs easier as you will be more comfortable speaking up about things that are bothering you, you have to be away for a bit, etc.

B. Time skips are your friend. As is story arcs.
Now I'm not saying you have to have all aspects of your roleplay worked out in advance I'm saying that having at least a goal in mind to work towards and some basic idea of how your characters will achieve said goal will do wonders for longevity. As will well placed time skips when you happen to hit a lull or write yourself into a corner ( or in bigger roleplays when people leave )

C. Know each others strengths and weaknesses.
This is pretty heavily tied to how well you know someone and the idea that long lived roleplays tend to involve people that are pretty comfortable with one another. Because the better you know someone the better you will be able to pinpoint the things they do well and the things they suck at. Thus you can tailor the experience as much as possible to enhance their strengths and work with their weaknesses.

 

[Sludge]

rae2nerdy

Never thought of using time skips this way. This is actually pretty useful.

 

[Idea]

Oh yes, don't misunderstand. I think your points are very interesting. I really like the way you justify them and not just anyone can do it that well.

See? Doesn't it feel nice? Like sunshine and butterflies. This is me carefully respecting your opinions about the things you call facts. Do the same to the others here and you will be surprised at how many friends you'll suddenly make!

[Edit] Ill even throw in a like.

I am not trying to make things feel nice. Nor am I trying to bash people. I'm just not a hypocrite, so I take what I believe in seriously. I am not trying to pick fights here and I will generally not go out of my way to comment on what someone else said. Unless what they said is direct attack on something I believe in as is the case when someone quotes me and say they disagree.

In fact, how is treating someone like their opinions are meaningless and inconsequential a form of respect? How is lying to them about the possibility of being wrong a way of upholding their dignity as human beings?

Ignoring a person is the response to a mindless basher. A thoughtful and committed opinion earns that it is sharpened and put to the test, respecting it is taking it seriously enough to view it as rival to your own way of thinking and creating the need to understand what is wrong in either one and pointing it out.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Sludge]

I am not trying to make things feel nice. Nor am I trying to bash people. I'm just not a hypocrite, so I take what I believe in seriously. I am not trying to pick fights here and I will generally not go out of my way to comment on what someone else said. Unless what they said is direct attack on something I believe in as is the case when someone quotes me and say they disagree.

In fact, how is treating someone like their opinions are meaningless and inconsequential a form of respect? How is lying to them about the possibility of being wrong a way of upholding their dignity as human beings?

Ignoring a person is the response to a mindless basher. A thoughtful and committed opinion earns that it is sharpened and put to the test, respecting it is taking it seriously enough to view it as rival to your own way of thinking and creating the need to understand what is wrong in either one and pointing it out.

At least that's how I see it.

That's great. Just relax a little bit.

 

[Idea]

Oh I am relaxed. Well, as relaxed as someone on the verge of an exam can be.

 

[Devious Dilbert]

Yes. This is a hobby and no one is getting payed for it. Some people are more serious about the writing aspect of it, but that's all there is to it. If somebody drops your rp, think about how to improve rather than condemn people who don't have the time for it.

Exactly my point. You can't seriously blame somebody for simply losing interest/getting bored of your work. That's purely irrational.
Roleplaying is a hobby. So is writing in general. The only difference is that you can be a professional writer. None of us here are professional roleplayers that get paid to do this. Even considering this to be a profession is ridiculous. We do this for fun, so let's make sure it stays fun.

Don't get me wrong. Sometimes, the rp is okay and the blame is indeed on the players. That means that you weren't playing with the right people from the beginning. They weren't bad people. It only means that they were not as passionate about this hobby as you were. If you want to do things your way, find the people who are just as into it as you are.

Couldn't agree more, friend.





Firstly, to you, Idea , I know that you and I are very opinionated people, LOL. There's nothing wrong with it though. I already know that you're extremely intelligent from our talk before on discord where you gave me some incredible insight on writing that I really lacked (By the way, I am working on rewriting my first chapter. Would be an honor to have you review it again after much needed improvements). This is just here to let you know that I am not personally attacking you, just your stance, LOL.

In it´s essence , roleplaying is, outside of any post-conceptual interpretation, taking the role of your character.

If you're comparing our viewpoints:
Yeah, we all agree on that. And that isn't how it is in rpgs? They are called Roleplaying games, my dude.
If you've ever actually roleplayed in a game, you'd see the connection pretty clearly. But I don't know if you're a huge game person or not, so I wouldn't know if you have.

The game elements you mentioned are something I would place as more accurately depicting a form of acting or theater. You should be getting into the character´s mindset, in my view.

"...I would place as more accurately depicting a form of acting or theater."
While sometimes this is true, the same can be said for roleplayers. Maybe not you or me, but I'm just pointing that out. And in my own view, I do think that roleplaying in general, whether in an actual rpg or on a forum like this, involves getting into a characer's mindset. Also, aren't the two, acting as a character and delving into a mindset in the context of rp'ing, one of the same? You have to first get into the character's mindset to properly portray the character, yeah?

But no, I would still say that rp'ing is more akin to rpgs. And I'll prove this with the following quote that I pull from you.

oh and may I add that I am living proof this isn´t true? With a couple exceptions all my RPs died while I was still holding and letting in motion tons of material for the players plot and character wise, not to mention spending weeks crafting explorable settings and magic systems. I may not be the MOST entertaining person around, but just having stuff to do is clearly no solution for commitment issues...

There is an element of human-to-human interaction present in rp'ing that you don't find in writing. At least not in any form of writing that I am aware of. You don't typically write a novel purely made up of the reactions and interactions that you conduct with one or more other people. I mean, I guess you could, technically there would be nothing stopping you, but has that ever been accomplished? ...And actually been good? And you certainly wouldn't do this when writing an essay or document. There are multiple kinds of writing, I am sure that you are aware.

You are correct that the writing that goes into video games is drastically different than the writing that makes up a novel (I am dreadfully aware of this because I am a video game person trying to write a novel as you know, LOL). You are correct in the sense that you are actually writing when you are rp'ing and I have acknowledged this in my initial post quoting you. However, rp'ing revolves around interaction with other players. As a player of an rp, you are reacting to what other players (Or the gm/dm) give you as well as progressing in your own way/pace. As a player of a game, you are reacting to the gameworld and whatever it throws at you as well as progressing in your own way/pace. Do you see the similarity now? Do not get me wrong, I completely understand why you would see rp'ing to be similar to writing a novel (I know that you have said that you do not only compare rp'ing to writing a novel, however I am just using this example to be specific. I specifically chose rpgs so I'm just rolling with the novel for now. It's also the closest kind of writing to rp'ing in my opinion).

Now, let's take a step back. After considering the interactivity in rp's, let's address why your rp's have died how they did.
I wasn't there so I wouldn't know what exactly caused your rp to go down. If I was, I'm sure I could pinpoint where it was starting to fall and I could tell you why. However, I will say this: You are absolutely right that just having stuff to do isn't going to save your rp. I didn't think that I had to point this out, but you obviously can't just throw shit at your players and expect them to be happy.

And here's another point that will back me up on rp's being similar to games.
Like I said, there is an element of interactivity that goes into rp's. And this is one of the most important things to consider when you are crafting content for your rp. In order to effectively engage your players, you need to make the rp revolve around them. Not what they do or say, or where they go, or what they slay or find in their world, but them. You need to make sure that what you give your players encourages interaction/action. This is one of the hardest things to accomplish as a video game developer/writer. Things need to directly encourage and demand immediate action from players. What you throw at your players cannot be easily shrugged off. And things like this don't have to be just limited to a surprise attack from say like bandits or a mini-boss- because you are also absolutely right that you can't "jumpscare" your players either.

Hear me out. You give your players the ultimate freedom to go and explore all of these different regions and places and you give them all of these different skills that they can acquire, and they will turn off the game after dicking around for a couple hours because they are bored. They are overwhelmed by all of the possibilities without any guidance or background goal. Think of it this way: there is so much that you could do right now in our real world. Nothing is stopping you from doing so many things wherever you are either, but even you get bored too. You need an objective and so do your players. You need some sort of drive. And so do your players. But if their goal/objective isn't enticing enough, they won't brave the harsh, treacherous mountain pass that you crafted for them. If there's no higher significance to learning that all-mighty ice blizzard magic spell, they won't bother wasting their time trying to learn it. Like I said, understanding and mastering this aspect is incredibly difficult. But this is extremely important for rp's especially because rp's don't have the beautiful graphics to distract you or the actual real-time battle mechanics of an actual video game.

There's also elements like timing and pacing, the tension and release cycle. These are all quite self-explanatory though in my opinion.

You as a gm/dm must know what encourages interaction in your game. And if your rp is a modern/realistic one where this may be even harder to accomplish, you really need to step up your game. Because I agree with you that school-setting rps don't last long.

One of the most successful rp's that I am currently in right now is run by a game developer. And I believe it is his experience in game development that makes him such a grand gm.

However, there is still room for a certain manipulation of what happens to make things interesting... But playing a game you only consume an already made product, whereas in writing, you have to MAKE that product too. That is your second mistake in my position: the things I derived from writing, came from the very rules and facts about writing itself, about the act by which we roleplay, not about paralels of things that are also written.

Ah. But do you not plan for your rp's? It certainly is not the same as a premade product, you are right about that, but there is still structure to rp's. Or at least, I think that there should be. While there is certainly much more freedom within an rp, many gm's still have certain plot poins that they want to see through. And in my opinion, this is still much like a game.

You can and are supposed to enjoy roleplaying, don´t take me wrong. But you if you go and treat it like it´s supposed to be enjoyed right away, you forget that the medium lacks several things that makes others able to be enjoyed immediately. There is no light and sound. Not even straight reading about light and sound is exciting or anything else in that vein. The excitement of reading is more visceral, less impulsive. It´s something that builds up and in it´s twists and turns and ups and downs becomes interesting and pulls you in, you CAN`T make jumpscares in writing. Even if you could it would be after dozens of pages of build up to tense the reader. And that is not even accounting for the fact that things that take work are usually less than prompt to be immediately exciting, and at most feel rewarding after finishing.

THIS is the aspect I wanted to point out. You can´t expect writing to be immediately exciting just like that, like a game (taking your example), because it is writing. Because you can control it´s pace, and you can´t be affected by things before you can process them because reading takes processing the words etc...

Perhaps it is just a difference in how we experience rp'ing. For me, since I view it as a game, I enjoy the process of writing my replies. What I have trouble with is actually writing the chapters for my novel, LOL. So, there you go. You're right that writing novels sucks at first.
For you, since you see rp'ing as something different than I do, I can understand your viewpoint.

Even if you view roleplaying as playing a game, and therefore don´t feel like it´s nonsensical to drop something just because it isn´t immediately fun or rewarding, that doesn´t mean it´s not a problem still. That doesn´t mean that that mentality isn´t leading to a nice slice of the committment issues in a lot of roleplays. Even if you think it´s a natural problem that should be accepted as a norm, it´s still a problem, and it´s still root cause of the problem that this thread was inquiring about.

Again, I feel like if you are dispassionate about something, you should come back when you regain that passion and work ethic. Because again, that way you are not half-assing anything. You took a hiatus recently, yes? If it wasn't for something like time-management, familial issues, etc. What was it for? I've taken a hiatus from this site because I lost interest in rp'ing for a while. I simply wasn't feeling it and I left. Then I came back and my wanting to rp is strong again. How is this a problem? Like I said to sludge, it is purely irrational to blame somebody for losing interest or getting bored of your rp.



Either way, this issue may just be a difference in how we perceive and/or experience things. And if that's the case, then we'll only get nowhere trying to push our views on each other. I am okay with agreeing to disagree, but this is a fun talk so I'd be okay in continuing it too.

 

[rae2nerdy]

To add to the above and to expand on a point I've made in my own post - people roleplay for different reasons and moreover they are motivated by different things as well. What draws me to roleplaying is not going to be the same thing that draws my friend Becky or Zoe to roleplaying.

I think a lot of GMs especially struggle with this where we get so caught up in what makes US excited about roleplaying and what things motivate us that we forget - not everyone takes information in the same way.

Not everyone is going to put the same kind of value on things that we do.

It's why I stress communication so much. By communicating with people you can actually get feedback on what makes THEM motivated. On what part of your ideas get them excited to move on and make their own contributions and what parts they could care less about.

 

[Idea]

This is just here to let you know that I am not personally attacking you, just your stance, LOL.

Oh I know that. I don´t take it personally, no worries.

If you're comparing our viewpoints:
Yeah, we all agree on that. And that isn't how it is in rpgs? They are called Roleplaying games, my dude.
If you've ever actually roleplayed in a game, you'd see the connection pretty clearly. But I don't know if you're a huge game person or not, so I wouldn't know if you have.

Yes, they are called roleplaying games, but the "games" part is there too and it´s making a distinction. Not everything from games translates to forum RPing. Maybe you think RPing should be more like playing an RPG, fine, but I do want to remind the purpose of this discussion and the ultimate aspect that is in debate: why people are not committed and what can be done to fix it. I answered that the mentality of dropping things the moment they get boring is counter-productive and the root cause of the death of many projects with potential, notion with which you disagreed and defended said mentality via a comparison to games. That is how our discussion began and what it is centered around.

As for your question, I do see a connection, but it´s not almighty, because the medium is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I will be adressing this topic again soon, so I will not delay myself with it, but I feel that is a point I am really struggling to get across to you.

"...I would place as more accurately depicting a form of acting or theater."
While sometimes this is true, the same can be said for roleplayers. Maybe not you or me, but I'm just pointing that out. And in my own view, I do think that roleplaying in general, whether in an actual rpg or on a forum like this, involves getting into a characer's mindset. Also, aren't the two, acting as a character and delving into a mindset in the context of rp'ing, one of the same? You have to first get into the character's mindset to properly portray the character, yeah?

In here you flipped my quote backwards and ended up defending exactly what I said in the quote as if you were attacking it.

There is an element of human-to-human interaction present in rp'ing that you don't find in writing. At least not in any form of writing that I am aware of. You don't typically write a novel purely made up of the reactions and interactions that you conduct with one or more other people. I mean, I guess you could, technically there would be nothing stopping you, but has that ever been accomplished? ...And actually been good? And you certainly wouldn't do this when writing an essay or document. There are multiple kinds of writing, I am sure that you are aware.

You are correct that the writing that goes into video games is drastically different than the writing that makes up a novel (I am dreadfully aware of this because I am a video game person trying to write a novel as you know, LOL). You are correct in the sense that you are actually writing when you are rp'ing and I have acknowledged this in my initial post quoting you. However, rp'ing revolves around interaction with other players. As a player of an rp, you are reacting to what other players (Or the gm/dm) give you as well as progressing in your own way/pace. As a player of a game, you are reacting to the gameworld and whatever it throws at you as well as progressing in your own way/pace. Do you see the similarity now? Do not get me wrong, I completely understand why you would see rp'ing to be similar to writing a novel (I know that you have said that you do not only compare rp'ing to writing a novel, however I am just using this example to be specific. I specifically chose rpgs so I'm just rolling with the novel for now. It's also the closest kind of writing to rp'ing in my opinion).

And again, you still misinterpreting my words. In this case, after I specifically stated that I was NOT TALKING about writing a novel. I spoke of rules inherent to writing. This thing I am doing right now. I´m gonna write an "a": A. That´s writing. And writing, has rules. And limitations. This isn´t a matter of style or preference, this is how writing works in practice, you don´t immediately enjoy it. Writing takes work and takes dedicated even if you just do it as a hobby.

To make an analogy, think of fishing. You will spend what could be hours setting up everything, driving to the lake, getting dressed properly. Sometimes you may have to wait days just for the weather to be right. And then you go to the actual fishing and you have to wait around for the fish to bite. And when the fish bite, you have to pull them up. And any of these parts may bore you. The set up, the waiting, the driving... but you do it because you like that moment of pulling up the fish or holding the fish in your hands or even eating the fish. And writing, any kind of writing, is just like that. First you write, and you work on writing right, then you can look at it and see "this is nice". In Rping maybe the reward is a nice reply that feels worth your time.

And here's another point that will back me up on rp's being similar to games.
Like I said, there is an element of interactivity that goes into rp's. And this is one of the most important things to consider when you are crafting content for your rp. In order to effectively engage your players, you need to make the rp revolve around them. Not what they do or say, or where they go, or what they slay or find in their world, but them. You need to make sure that what you give your players encourages interaction/action. This is one of the hardest things to accomplish as a video game developer/writer. Things need to directly encourage and demand immediate action from players. What you throw at your players cannot be easily shrugged off. And things like this don't have to be just limited to a surprise attack from say like bandits or a mini-boss- because you are also absolutely right that you can't "jumpscare" your players either.

Hear me out. You give your players the ultimate freedom to go and explore all of these different regions and places and you give them all of these different skills that they can acquire, and they will turn off the game after dicking around for a couple hours because they are bored. They are overwhelmed by all of the possibilities without any guidance or background goal. Think of it this way: there is so much that you could do right now in our real world. Nothing is stopping you from doing so many things wherever you are either, but even you get bored too. You need an objective and so do your players. You need some sort of drive. And so do your players. But if their goal/objective isn't enticing enough, they won't brave the harsh, treacherous mountain pass that you crafted for them. If there's no higher significance to learning that all-mighty ice blizzard magic spell, they won't bother wasting their time trying to learn it. Like I said, understanding and mastering this aspect is incredibly difficult. But this is extremely important for rp's especially because rp's don't have the beautiful graphics to distract you or the actual real-time battle mechanics of an actual video game.

There's also elements like timing and pacing, the tension and release cycle. These are all quite self-explanatory though in my opinion.

You as a gm/dm must know what encourages interaction in your game. And if your rp is a modern/realistic one where this may be even harder to accomplish, you really need to step up your game. Because I agree with you that school-setting rps don't last long.

One of the most successful rp's that I am currently in right now is run by a game developer. And I believe it is his experience in game development that makes him such a grand gm.

That´s a good point (that I already knew, but ignoring that...) , which unfortunately does not support your position. Because the things you mentioned as "Important" are all part of two things: narrative and immersion. These terms are common to games and writing. Because games have scripts and because anything that happens in a game needs descriptions. Things done through writing. On the other hand, the things you mentioned are missing, are the ones you actually find in games particularly.

The one exception to this is the aspect of interaction (admitedly, a big one) but not only does this not go outside my point (of writing, not writing a novel) it´s an element I don´t see in RPGs. Even when they are multiplayer, a lot of their appeal as games often pulls people away from those things. It´s not a coicidence that it´s almost a meme the way people just skip NPCs lines and are just plain rude in dungeons.

This is not to say being a game designer can´t let you run a successful RP and help, nor that an RP run like a game could not be successful. Yet "there is an example of" and "the rule is" are two very different things. I´ve seen RPs beign extremely successful on the basis of one liners. Hundreds upon hudreds of pages and I have no doubt the people there were having fun. But I can´t take that and say "everyone should just do one-liners". Because one-liners are almost universally hated for a reason. Good writing is appreciated, but committment for it, the sacrifice inherent to it, that is lacking.

Ah. But do you not plan for your rp's? It certainly is not the same as a premade product, you are right about that, but there is still structure to rp's. Or at least, I think that there should be. While there is certainly much more freedom within an rp, many gm's still have certain plot poins that they want to see through. And in my opinion, this is still much like a game.

Of course I plan my damm RPs. Reading this makes me feel like you paid 0 attention to everything else I wrote. That, I find a bit insulting.

Again, I feel like if you are dispassionate about something, you should come back when you regain that passion and work ethic. Because again, that way you are not half-assing anything. You took a hiatus recently, yes? If it wasn't for something like time-management, familial issues, etc. What was it for? I've taken a hiatus from this site because I lost interest in rp'ing for a while. I simply wasn't feeling it and I left. Then I came back and my wanting to rp is strong again. How is this a problem? Like I said to sludge, it is purely irrational to blame somebody for losing interest or getting bored of your rp.

I took a hiatus because I wasn´t physically capable of continuing, because I looked at saw I was being unable to reply. Getting bored and being unable to project anything from your mind at all are two separate things. It´s the difference between a paralitic and a baby. The baby will not be able to walk right away, they will stumble and eventually get up. The paralitic is condemned to never be able to , nomatter how hard they try.

I am not BLAMING anyone for getting bored. As I said, it´s something that just happens because we are WRITING. Writing is not fun, reading is, and envisioning others reading is, but that already takes a dedication to begin with. Do you think great scenes are written on whims? The things that make writing worth it, and therefore, anything in a writing medium worth it, take time to build up. And sometimes, you´re just not so talented you can make the build up feel great. And you sure as hell ain´t gonna get better by giving up at every minor inconvenience.



In short, let me rephrase a matter you brought up yourself. If writing is irrelevant for the roleplaying, why are you wasting your time with it? Go play an RPG, roleplay in it. That or there is something good about roleplaying in a forum. And if there is, then, surely it has something to do with that difference, with it being in wriitng. And being so, should we be wasting what could be one of the best roleplaying experiences ever just because we quit the roleplaying because we felt a little sick that morning or because I didn´t really feel invested in the character that got introduced like a paragraph ago.

 

[Devious Dilbert]

Oh I know that. I don´t take it personally, no worries.


Yes, they are called roleplaying games, but the "games" part is there too and it´s making a distinction. Not everything from games translates to forum RPing. Maybe you think RPing should be more like playing an RPG, fine, but I do want to remind the purpose of this discussion and the ultimate aspect that is in debate: why people are not committed and what can be done to fix it. I answered that the mentality of dropping things the moment they get boring is counter-productive and the root cause of the death of many projects with potential, notion with which you disagreed and defended said mentality via a comparison to games. That is how our discussion began and what it is centered around.

As for your question, I do see a connection, but it´s not almighty, because the medium is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I will be adressing this topic again soon, so I will not delay myself with it, but I feel that is a point I am really struggling to get across to you.


In here you flipped my quote backwards and ended up defending exactly what I said in the quote as if you were attacking it.



And again, you still misinterpreting my words. In this case, after I specifically stated that I was NOT TALKING about writing a novel. I spoke of rules inherent to writing. This thing I am doing right now. I´m gonna write an "a": A. That´s writing. And writing, has rules. And limitations. This isn´t a matter of style or preference, this is how writing works in practice, you don´t immediately enjoy it. Writing takes work and takes dedicated even if you just do it as a hobby.

To make an analogy, think of fishing. You will spend what could be hours setting up everything, driving to the lake, getting dressed properly. Sometimes you may have to wait days just for the weather to be right. And then you go to the actual fishing and you have to wait around for the fish to bite. And when the fish bite, you have to pull them up. And any of these parts may bore you. The set up, the waiting, the driving... but you do it because you like that moment of pulling up the fish or holding the fish in your hands or even eating the fish. And writing, any kind of writing, is just like that. First you write, and you work on writing right, then you can look at it and see "this is nice". In Rping maybe the reward is a nice reply that feels worth your time.


That´s a good point (that I already knew, but ignoring that...) , which unfortunately does not support your position. Because the things you mentioned as "Important" are all part of two things: narrative and immersion. These terms are common to games and writing. Because games have scripts and because anything that happens in a game needs descriptions. Things done through writing. On the other hand, the things you mentioned are missing, are the ones you actually find in games particularly.

The one exception to this is the aspect of interaction (admitedly, a big one) but not only does this not go outside my point (of writing, not writing a novel) it´s an element I don´t see in RPGs. Even when they are multiplayer, a lot of their appeal as games often pulls people away from those things. It´s not a coicidence that it´s almost a meme the way people just skip NPCs lines and are just plain rude in dungeons.

This is not to say being a game designer can´t let you run a successful RP and help, nor that an RP run like a game could not be successful. Yet "there is an example of" and "the rule is" are two very different things. I´ve seen RPs beign extremely successful on the basis of one liners. Hundreds upon hudreds of pages and I have no doubt the people there were having fun. But I can´t take that and say "everyone should just do one-liners". Because one-liners are almost universally hated for a reason. Good writing is appreciated, but committment for it, the sacrifice inherent to it, that is lacking.


Of course I plan my damm RPs. Reading this makes me feel like you paid 0 attention to everything else I wrote. That, I find a bit insulting.


I took a hiatus because I wasn´t physically capable of continuing, because I looked at saw I was being unable to reply. Getting bored and being unable to project anything from your mind at all are two separate things. It´s the difference between a paralitic and a baby. The baby will not be able to walk right away, they will stumble and eventually get up. The paralitic is condemned to never be able to , nomatter how hard they try.

I am not BLAMING anyone for getting bored. As I said, it´s something that just happens because we are WRITING. Writing is not fun, reading is, and envisioning others reading is, but that already takes a dedication to begin with. Do you think great scenes are written on whims? The things that make writing worth it, and therefore, anything in a writing medium worth it, take time to build up. And sometimes, you´re just not so talented you can make the build up feel great. And you sure as hell ain´t gonna get better by giving up at every minor inconvenience.



In short, let me rephrase a matter you brought up yourself. If writing is irrelevant for the roleplaying, why are you wasting your time with it? Go play an RPG, roleplay in it. That or there is something good about roleplaying in a forum. And if there is, then, surely it has something to do with that difference, with it being in wriitng. And being so, should we be wasting what could be one of the best roleplaying experiences ever just because we quit the roleplaying because we felt a little sick that morning or because I didn´t really feel invested in the character that got introduced like a paragraph ago.

Okay, to all of this I can reply with:
I never said that writing is irrelevant to rp'ing. I acknowledged twice that you are using elements of writing in your responses when you rp. However, like many have pointed out, people experience things differently. You say it like it's fact that writing isn't supposed to be fun. I'm saying that I think of it differently. And so do many others. I actually have fun with my rp'ing because I think of it as a game. And other people can have fun with it too. Because if people don't see it as fun, they drop out. And that is because roleplaying is a hobby, which you think is an overplayed idea for some reason. We do it because we like it and it is fun/rewarding to us. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it. I get that you are saying it's supposed to be fun afterwards because that's just some rule to writing or whatnot, but most people don't want to continue something that they don't find fun in the moment. And it seems like a lot of people agree that this is the key issue here.

You can say that you're the most disciplined person in the world that will stick around for any rp no matter how bad it gets because you're a writer and you've done it before. But most people aren't. And the reality is that rp'ers drop things that they don't find fun. Which is what we're discussing right now and it's what I've been trying to tell you using the connection to games.

And this is why I have been explaining to you my viewpoint as rp's like games. Because of the mass appeal and because it is then easy to address the problems of boredom by understanding what makes games fun and then using that knowledge to make your rp's fun. That's much easier in my opinion than trying to change everybody's mind to just accept that writing sucks to make them stick around for a boring rp. And if writing is just terrible, how do we actively address this issue and do something to make it not so much? Because again, people are dropping rp's because they get bored in the moment.

You have only picked out that writing isn't supposed to be fun and that's just how it is. You have given nothing else on how to combat the problem of uncommitted rp'ers. And if you really are expecting people just to accept that writing isn't fun, then that doesn't help anything or anyone to be honest.


So, again, it may just be a difference in how we perceive/experience things. Somebody pointed out earlier that we all experience things differently. Which goes for you too, and I understand that writing is just this painful process. However, that's also a bit unproductive to think when we are talking about how to get people to stick around.

 

[MISTER UN. 0W3N]

Decided to pop in here for a second. I am someone that likes to have fun in a RP. And, I will drop a roleplay so fast if it stops being fun. I've learned over the years that I shouldn't have to force myself to do something that should be fun (for me). It becomes tiresome and added stress to an already stressful life. I don't need that. I'm usually someone that tries to see the good and positive in thangs. But, in this case, there's really nothing that can combat commitment issues. There's a million reasons why a user can't keep up or drop a thread. But, in my experience, it's always the same thang: it's not fun anymore, so what's the point? This also extends to tabletop RPGs and RP video games in general. If it's not fun, then why force yourself to continue? There's so much shit that piles up the more you age along with the fact that experience has changed you to have certain expectations and wants for a roleplay thread. If it isn't being fulfilled, it's not being fun anymore. For the most part, it's why most of my friends have stopped and moved on.

It stops being fun.

It fucking sucks.

 

[Devious Dilbert]

I actually meant to reply to these too, but was being rushed by my brother to leave, LOL.

The one exception to this is the aspect of interaction (admitedly, a big one) but not only does this not go outside my point (of writing, not writing a novel) it´s an element I don´t see in RPGs. Even when they are multiplayer, a lot of their appeal as games often pulls people away from those things. It´s not a coicidence that it´s almost a meme the way people just skip NPCs lines and are just plain rude in dungeons.

The whole point of you needing things to encourage interaction/action is still there. Maybe not interaction with another human like in a forum like this, but interaction with the gameworld. And a lot of rp'ing is just reacting/interacting to things, right? Same thing.

Of course I plan my damm RPs. Reading this makes me feel like you paid 0 attention to everything else I wrote. That, I find a bit insulting.

No, no. I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention. I was only using that question to express that the premade product of a gameworld and rp'ing aren't really too different sometimes.

That´s a good point (that I already knew, but ignoring that...) , which unfortunately does not support your position. Because the things you mentioned as "Important" are all part of two things: narrative and immersion. These terms are common to games and writing. Because games have scripts and because anything that happens in a game needs descriptions. Things done through writing. On the other hand, the things you mentioned are missing, are the ones you actually find in games particularl

I mean actually it was supposed to be more about the flow of reaction/interaction and calls for action, but fair enough.

And again, you still misinterpreting my words. In this case, after I specifically stated that I was NOT TALKING about writing a novel. I spoke of rules inherent to writing.

No, I didn't misinterpret. I knew what you meant. It was just easier for me to pick one specific form of writing that included the principles of writing to compare to my specific example of games in the rpg genre.

 

[Idea]

Okay, to all of this I can reply with:
I never said that writing is irrelevant to rp'ing. I acknowledged twice that you are using elements of writing in your responses when you rp. However, like many have pointed out, people experience things differently. You say it like it's fact that writing isn't supposed to be fun. I'm saying that I think of it differently. And so do many others. I actually have fun with my rp'ing because I think of it as a game. And other people can have fun with it too. Because if people don't see it as fun, they drop out. And that is because roleplaying is a hobby, which you think is an overplayed idea for some reason. We do it because we like it and it is fun/rewarding to us. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it. I get that you are saying it's supposed to be fun afterwards because that's just some rule to writing or whatnot, but most people don't want to continue something that they don't find fun in the moment. And it seems like a lot of people agree that this is the key issue here.

You can say that you're the most disciplined person in the world that will stick around for any rp no matter how bad it gets because you're a writer and you've done it before. But most people aren't. And the reality is that rp'ers drop things that they don't find fun. Which is what we're discussing right now and it's what I've been trying to tell you using the connection to games.

And this is why I have been explaining to you my viewpoint as rp's like games. Because of the mass appeal and because it is then easy to address the problems of boredom by understanding what makes games fun and then using that knowledge to make your rp's fun. That's much easier in my opinion than trying to change everybody's mind to just accept that writing sucks to make them stick around for a boring rp. And if writing is just terrible, how do we actively address this issue and do something to make it not so much? Because again, people are dropping rp's because they get bored in the moment.

You have only picked out that writing isn't supposed to be fun and that's just how it is. You have given nothing else on how to combat the problem of uncommitted rp'ers. And if you really are expecting people just to accept that writing isn't fun, then that doesn't help anything or anyone to be honest.


So, again, it may just be a difference in how we perceive/experience things. Somebody pointed out earlier that we all experience things differently. Which goes for you too, and I understand that writing is just this painful process. However, that's also a bit unproductive to think when we are talking about how to get people to stick around.

I didn´t say writing isn´t supposed to be fun (ok, maybe I did, but within a larger context), what I said is that it isn´t supposed to be IMMEDIATELY fun. I´ts not that you can´t have fun with it, it´s that it has no obligation to be fun from the start, and in fact, the cases where it truly, truly becomes fun is as a pay-off to your investment in it.

 

[Purity]

There's an odd quirk that I have experienced multitudes of times when creating or joining RPs. Typically, RPs fall under two broad categories: the ones that attempt to have the plot moving and characters interacting by having them all in one place, and the ones that have players essentially doing whatever they choose, wherever they choose, and having character interactions when necessary. Now, both has its own problems which lead to the RP dying off. When everyone is grouped together and the story moves along at the pace of the GM, if the GM loses interest or doesn't post within a certain time frame, players begin to lose interest and drop off as well. As for the second type, it becomes much more player dependent to move the story or even side conversations along, and while it is much less detrimental if a single person drops off, sometimes it causes a chain effect where everyone begins to drop off because their characters had this connection, or a player had that connection. Strangely enough, the best way to save either type of these RPs is to switch to the other type, however it can still lead to players dropping off, hence a catch 22.

Now, this thread asks people to think towards the solution of this deadly epidemic amidst RPs. The truth is, there is no real solution. When a person writes a book, they either invest themselves into the story or lose interest in it very quickly. But the fact of the matter is that it was their original idea, and every part of the book springs from their own interests. Now when you have multiple people writing a "story", an RP in this case, interests will always conflict, and people will lose interest and drop off much faster than if there was only one writer.

You could even try to rationalize this loss of interest in a different fashion. It's simply a matter of human nature, and commitment. So, what are the motives for everyone in an RP to stay committed? Well, the GM has obvious motives, they created the RP itself and thus will want to continue it. But what of the others? They joined out of sheer interest and excitement, not necessity. And it's this fact that people will always continue to drop out, regardless of whatever we try to do to keep them in.

(And I apologize if this all seems like gibberish written at two in the morning. Because I did not mean to write this much, and also because the first sentence is possibly a reality.)

 

[Idea]

The whole point of you needing things to encourage interaction/action is still there. Maybe not interaction with another human like in a forum like this, but interaction with the gameworld. And a lot of rp'ing is just reacting/interacting to things, right? Same thing.

Interacting in a completely different sense then. In a game, the world is made, you can just look or just click and listen, or anything of that sort. Looking is pretty passive. You try opening your eyes towards something and simultaneously not looking at it. But nomatter how long I just leave my hands to themselves they will not start to write without me consciously willing it.

In addition to that, never once have I seen a game in my life, regardless of what type of game it was, where the part of the audience that actually paid attention to the world, story etc... was more than a small fraction compared to those that were there for the mechanics and what they provided. For the "game aspect".

And that, I believe, speaks to the core of the issue I am talking about. In a game, if you don´t commit to anything in particular, or if haven´t committed yet and just need more time to get invested, you can just enjoy the gaming aspect itself, and the lush of elements that don´t really require much committment to enjoy because they are immediate. Sounds, visuals, self-providing narrative, and the gaming aspects, all of these are things you just can´t get in writing, yet they are some of the things that immediately stand out for a game, it´s the game´s selling point.

Writing on the other hand does not have the luxury of having something to distract you from the writing. To have fun right away, it´s because you envision how fun it will be. In writing, something is fun because you invest in it, not the other way around. That is the issue I am trying to say is making this backwards. If someone shows up and happens to have a less likeable character, it can turn off your immediate investment in that character. But is the other person playing with such a character really a reason to say "I will not enjoy this RP, and therefore should leave it to die"?


Sometimes, things can genuily just not be fun. Then you could quit. I am not saying you can´t quit nomatter what. I am saying, how do we fix committment issues? Well, start by changing the idea of quitting every time there is a rough patch or in any slow beggining.

 

[Idea]

I mean actually it was supposed to be more about the flow of reaction/interaction and calls for action, but fair enough.

both of which are included in "narrative", unless you mean it in the timing sense, which is something you just can´t really do in writing as you would in games.

No, I didn't misinterpret. I knew what you meant. It was just easier for me to pick one specific form of writing that included the principles of writing to compare to my specific example of games in the rpg genre.

Then you blew it out of proporsion, because you took things that only apply to writing novels and expanded it to all forms of writing.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Writing on the other hand does not have the luxury of having something to distract you from the writing. To have fun right away, it´s because you envision how fun it will be. In writing, something is fun because you invest in it, not the other way around. That is the issue I am trying to say is making this backwards. If someone shows up and happens to have a less likeable character, it can turn off your immediate investment in that character. But is the other person playing with such a character really a reason to say "I will not enjoy this RP, and therefore should leave it to die"?


Sometimes, things can genuily just not be fun. Then you could quit. I am not saying you can´t quit nomatter what. I am saying, how do we fix committment issues? Well, start by changing the idea of quitting every time there is a rough patch or in any slow beggining.

And I think the basic issue that Devious was attempting to make is essentially that yeah for some people that bolded statement is a hundred percent true. The reason being that when they roleplay the pay off they're looking for specifically involves other characters. You see this a lot with people that roleplay for romance or other character interactions. If they are not invested in characters they will not continue.

But that does not mean that everyone who roleplays is equally invested in character development either. Some people like yourself will be invested in the writing aspect. And for those people you statements are true and they understand that in order to get their form of pay out ( good writing or a well-written story ) they will need to put in some time.

But again not everyone cares about the writing. So for some people the idea that you have to wait for a pay off in writing ( while completely true let me just say that here ) isn't really relevant to why they will drop a roleplay. Because writing is a very minor aspect for their personal idea of roleplaying.

It's what I tried to say before. People are all roleplaying for different reasons and put a different degree of importance on all the aspects of roleplaying. And what you consider to be important isn't necessarily going to line up with what other people consider important.

Which is why focusing on mechanics alone can get people in trouble. Because mechanics are more or less a matter of preference. I can sit here and say that in my experience a well crafted story helps keep a roleplay going forward combined with a lot of interaction out of the roleplay. But that is just my preferences peaking through. Because my biggest pay off in roleplaying is the social aspect. The actual story and writing is way down the list of my priorities, for me if I don't like you as a person and we don't jell in the OOC than chances are I'm just not going to like roleplaying with you.

You could be a professional level writer, have a truly immersive story, the best most well developed character, a fully developed game system, and if I don't like you as a person none of that will matter. Because socialization is my main pay off.

Now I understand that not everyone feels the same and that for some people the pay off is the game system ( if you make it fun or if you have a well developed magic system for instance ) and for others it is writing. Still others find characters to be where they gravitate. And so on and so forth.

That's why I say communication is so important. Selfishly yes because it is where a lot of my own pay off comes in. But also because it's the best way to actually figure out what motivates the people your playing with. Or if not direct communicating at least listening to them when they make comments to you. But I am ever a direct person so I try to ask people outright where I can , especially if I see a problem developing where people are losing interest.

Now communicating in itself is hard with certain types of people so I'm not saying it's a magic solution to all problems but if nothing else it can at least help you identify what or where the problems are.

 

[Idea]

And I think the basic issue that Devious was attempting to make is essentially that yeah for some people that bolded statement is a hundred percent true. The reason being that when they roleplay the pay off they're looking for specifically involves other characters. You see this a lot with people that roleplay for romance or other character interactions. If they are not invested in characters they will not continue.

But that does not mean that everyone who roleplays is equally invested in character development either. Some people like yourself will be invested in the writing aspect. And for those people you statements are true and they understand that in order to get their form of pay out ( good writing or a well-written story ) they will need to put in some time.

But again not everyone cares about the writing. So for some people the idea that you have to wait for a pay off in writing ( while completely true let me just say that here ) isn't really relevant to why they will drop a roleplay. Because writing is a very minor aspect for their personal idea of roleplaying.

It's what I tried to say before. People are all roleplaying for different reasons and put a different degree of importance on all the aspects of roleplaying. And what you consider to be important isn't necessarily going to line up with what other people consider important.

Which is why focusing on mechanics alone can get people in trouble. Because mechanics are more or less a matter of preference. I can sit here and say that in my experience a well crafted story helps keep a roleplay going forward combined with a lot of interaction out of the roleplay. But that is just my preferences peaking through. Because my biggest pay off in roleplaying is the social aspect. The actual story and writing is way down the list of my priorities, for me if I don't like you as a person and we don't jell in the OOC than chances are I'm just not going to like roleplaying with you.

You could be a professional level writer, have a truly immersive story, the best most well developed character, a fully developed game system, and if I don't like you as a person none of that will matter. Because socialization is my main pay off.

Now I understand that not everyone feels the same and that for some people the pay off is the game system ( if you make it fun or if you have a well developed magic system for instance ) and for others it is writing. Still others find characters to be where they gravitate. And so on and so forth.

That's why I say communication is so important. Selfishly yes because it is where a lot of my own pay off comes in. But also because it's the best way to actually figure out what motivates the people your playing with. Or if not direct communicating at least listening to them when they make comments to you. But I am ever a direct person so I try to ask people outright where I can , especially if I see a problem developing where people are losing interest.

Now communicating in itself is hard with certain types of people so I'm not saying it's a magic solution to all problems but if nothing else it can at least help you identify what or where the problems are.

I´m getting a little tired of having to repeat the answers to points that were already brought up and countered, which were based on fundamental misunderstandings of my points and the discussions. So I will keep this simple and short.

1: I never said the appeal had to be the writing aspect, I said that regardless of how you feel about it, roleplaying in a forum involves writing. Nomatter how you view it, this that I am doing right now is writing. And what we do TO roleplay is write. And writing has some fundamental aspects to it, such as that it takes investment to have any form of attraction. Yes, that investment can come in many forms, I never said it couldn´t, what I did say is that it has to come BEFORE the fun. The fun is not the reason you invest, you have fun because you invested. That´s how it works in writing, because the medium strictly relies on the person to keep reading or keep writing, whereas a game or a movie or anything like that can simply keep running without you necessarily making it. And this fact , that investment comes before the the fun in anything that involves reading or writing, is the reason why I find the mentality of dropping something because it´s not fun at some point problematic. Because, a lot of the times, it isn´t fun because people didn´t LET IT be fun. If you half-ass things to begin with it will only by mere coicidence that anything will turn out well at all, and "mere coicidence", translates to a lot of dead RPs and broken hopes before you have a shot at getting there.
Let´s take your example for a moment, though. You say your pay off is socializing, and that is fine. But how do you socialize in an RP? Via the OOC or via character interactions, but to do that, you need to write those interactions, type the comments for the OOC section. If everyone just waited around to "feel like it", things might never even start. And if the pay-off is socializing, well, do you have to be having fun, BEFORE anyone starts talking? BEFORE characters start interacting? Does EVERY SINGLE TIME anyone says anything have to be some major thrill? Because if it doesn´t, why would you expect RPing to have to make your heart skip a beat while you work on the post? And what if every conversation was just people saying "uhu", "hmmm" "yes" and "no"? Would that feel like a good interaction? Or do people actually have to put at leats a second´s thought into what they´re about to say, do they have to be at least somehwat committed to the conversation or interaction instead of just dragging along?
Writing isn´t an option or opinion in forum roleplaying, in fact, it´s not in most of the internet. It´s how we communicate here. And while this isn´t writing novels or anything like that, writing has principles of it´s own that are separate from whatever you are trying to accomplish with it. And these principles have consequences in how you should treat it.
Things may be fast these days, but they are not quite so fast that they can invert the natural order of time, nor that they can start ignoring cause and effect. Caring about the writing or not neither change the fact you ARE writing. Nor do they change how writing works.

2: The question in this thread was never about what you enjoy in roleplay, but about the fixing of roleplay commitment issues. It stands to reason that a big step towards that is identifying what causes these commitment issues to begin with. The argument that was objected to, may I remind everyone, was that the mentality by which a person would give up on anything the second it grew slightly boring was an important source of such issues. I can´t tell how many roleplays have died and must have died because roleplayers just "didn´t feel like it anymore" after a couple posts or less. How many people don´t reply because they never feel "in the zone" or some similar thing. Whether this mentality is somehow justified or not was never the issue to begin with: It´s a fact that it exists and it´s a fact that it killed hundreds of roleplays. Therefore, irrespective of what you seek in roleplay, it´s a fact that people would be a lot more committed if they were not always expecting immediate gratificating in a medium that´s just not equipped to provide it like that.

3: That said, never have I stated you have to give every single roleplay an equal shot, that our standards for what is enjoyable have to be the same, or that you can´t quit roleplays at all. I enjoy good writing (and in this specific case, yes, I am talking about good novel-type writing that you find in certain posts), and I enjoy creative and concise worldbuilding and I enjoy deep themes to discuss etc... No one is being forced to like what I like. No one should. But by being so superficial and impatient that you quit something just because the gods of the Olympus have not blessed you with sunshine and joy that day, you kill innovation. You know those movies with twist endings that blow your mind? You know those refreshing movies and stories and the new jokes who give you joy in a seemingly barren desert? Those will not turn out perfect the first time around. And if they are left to die just because of that, how do you ever expect them to flourish?
Roleplaying, anime, movies, everything goes through this process. If people have a gun to their heads for trying something new, what you get is a bunch of frightened copy-cats and people who follow the "instruction manual of tropes" as a default, because it´s face, even if it´s boring. Because there is an assured audience for that. The difference, is that roleplay is a hobby. You don´t have to use it to put bread on your table. So why should people give up on things that force a little push out of them?
If they don´t take that leap of faith, or that extra push, then they also sacrifice the fun they were looking for in the first place. If the interaction between characters is always a carbon copy of the previous, a person like you will surely get bored. If there is nothing new and all is a copy of the previous gaming aspects in Devious´s roleplay, she might get bored too (assuming that´s what she´s after in a roleplay). Any kind of fun will get ruined if repetitions are overdone. But originality is only possible in a world where people are willing to tolerate some mistakes or innitial downs.



Ok, that ended up being waaaaaay longer than I expected... In any case, I really hope I got my point across, at least somewhat. And if I didn´t, or you disagree with me still, by all means, feel free to respond or not as you wish. Just please do me the favor of paying attention to what I actually said, and not creating a strawman of my words that you attack with the dominating sense of "individuality above all" that seems to trump over common sense and logic these days.

 

[Bone2pick]

If someone shows up and happens to have a less likeable character, it can turn off your immediate investment in that character. But is the other person playing with such a character really a reason to say "I will not enjoy this RP, and therefore should leave it to die"?

It can be, yes.

 

[Idea]

It can be, yes.

How and why?