GUILD OF HEROES
Eye of the Storm
Eye of the Storm
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Fantasy Guild of Heroes EotS - OOC
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Birdsie
The God-Emperor of Mankind
Needs some details. Are the Blessings supposed to be Graces? Is Artifice a crafting Charm? And I believe no starting character may begin with Sorcery; do you think an exception should be made in this case?
HighSanguinaryPriest
Scifi Commando
Sorry, yes blessings are tbe same as graces. And define charm?S for the sorcery, he is being given secrets by a dark entity he is in service to
HighSanguinaryPriest
Scifi Commando
As for artifice, "Masters of invention, artificers use ingenuity and magic to unlock extraordinary capabilities in objects. They see magic as a complex system waiting to be decoded and then harnessed in their spells and inventions. Artificers use a variety of tools to channel their arcane power. To cast a spell, an artificer might use alchemist's supplies to create a potent elixir, calligrapher's supplies to inscribe a sigil of power, or tinker's tools to craft a temporary charm. The magic of artificers is tied to their tools and their talents, and few other characters can produce the right tool for a job as well as an artificer"
Birdsie
The God-Emperor of Mankind
So he's twice-Coalesced? And somehow knows sorcery without having passed the trials? I'm fine with the former, not very fine with the latter because it conflicts what I've got written down.
Also, err, have you read the interest check? The description for Graces, Charms, and Sorcery are all in there. Charms are supernatural enhancements of natural abilities, which Artifice seemed like it'd fall under.
HighSanguinaryPriest
Scifi Commando
Ill remove the latter then
HighSanguinaryPriest
Scifi Commando
Fixed i think
HighSanguinaryPriest
Scifi Commando
got bored and made this up
Kylesar1
This is my loudest bork
Oi,
Kobe Nathan Wade
can you explain how Aegis works? Reading my post, your post, and your CS, I have some confusion. William's grace is Aegis, which is a shield. On my CS, Solomon has Stillpiercer, which shatters shields. I reiterated as much in the second paragraph that it includes magic-induced shields (which Aegis would qualify). In my post, Aegis was shattered by Stillpiercer, meaning he would've taken the full brunt of the attack.
If Aegis shatters and he still takes no damage, that just seems like nigh imperviousness to physical damage. It'd be fine if Aegis would be up.........but it shouldn't be because it was shattered as said in my post. Unless I'm missing some detail, it seems logical that that's how it would've worked. He was standing in wait for a takedown, meaning he wouldn't have dodged the attack. Solomon, using Stillpiercer, shatters Aegis (nullifying its effects) and gets him in the chest with the training blade, ending the match as that would've been a lethal hit in a serious battle with real weaponry.
Yes, Solomon wouldn't have known about Aegis, but William came into battle with no armor, leading Solomon to believe that he had another way to prevent that damage. If someone has nothing to prevent or mitigate what could be a lethal blow, it's logical to assume that have some sort of magic way of preventing it. Since Solomon made that assumption, he chose to use Stillpiercer anyways.
I just want to clear up confusion on my end.
Kobe Nathan Wade
can you explain how Aegis works? Reading my post, your post, and your CS, I have some confusion. William's grace is Aegis, which is a shield. On my CS, Solomon has Stillpiercer, which shatters shields. I reiterated as much in the second paragraph that it includes magic-induced shields (which Aegis would qualify). In my post, Aegis was shattered by Stillpiercer, meaning he would've taken the full brunt of the attack. If Aegis shatters and he still takes no damage, that just seems like nigh imperviousness to physical damage. It'd be fine if Aegis would be up.........but it shouldn't be because it was shattered as said in my post. Unless I'm missing some detail, it seems logical that that's how it would've worked. He was standing in wait for a takedown, meaning he wouldn't have dodged the attack. Solomon, using Stillpiercer, shatters Aegis (nullifying its effects) and gets him in the chest with the training blade, ending the match as that would've been a lethal hit in a serious battle with real weaponry.
Yes, Solomon wouldn't have known about Aegis, but William came into battle with no armor, leading Solomon to believe that he had another way to prevent that damage. If someone has nothing to prevent or mitigate what could be a lethal blow, it's logical to assume that have some sort of magic way of preventing it. Since Solomon made that assumption, he chose to use Stillpiercer anyways.
I just want to clear up confusion on my end.
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
A shield to the weak is an ability which takes the momentum out of your swing. This means a sword can still touch him and cut him, but there would be no power behind it. He'd be left with a small cut where you might have otherwise run him through. I call it a "shield" in my character sheet because it's something that covers his whole body, but it's an effect which applies to your sword when William is attacked, not just a force field or something that blocks it by physical contact. He isn't coming into contact with anything physical, just the magical effect of the grace, and therefore there's nothing TO stab for stillpiercer to attack. In addition to that, you never said stillpiercer effects magical abilities in your sheet, just literal armor and shields so because you stated that in your second paragraph but not there in the first place I feel it was a bit of a god mod.Oi,
If Aegis shatters and he still takes no damage, that just seems like nigh imperviousness to physical damage. It'd be fine if Aegis would be up.........but it shouldn't be because it was shattered as said in my post. Unless I'm missing some detail, it seems logical that that's how it would've worked. He was standing in wait for a takedown, meaning he wouldn't have dodged the attack. Solomon, using Stillpiercer, shatters Aegis (nullifying its effects) and gets him in the chest with the training blade, ending the match as that would've been a lethal hit in a serious battle with real weaponry.
Yes, Solomon wouldn't have known about Aegis, but William came into battle with no armor, leading Solomon to believe that he had another way to prevent that damage. If someone has nothing to prevent or mitigate what could be a lethal blow, it's logical to assume that have some sort of magic way of preventing it. Since Solomon made that assumption, he chose to use Stillpiercer anyways.
I just want to clear up confusion on my end.
Edit: We can have someone as a third party to settle the discussion to see what they think if you like, I'm open to it if anyone wants to weigh in.
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Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
So your attack with your sword would have left a cut on William's chest, but not a fatal one.
Kylesar1
This is my loudest bork
"Designed to pierce armor and shields." If it's a shield or an armor, it can be affected by Stillpiercer. If it's not specified what KIND of shield, most would assume that, if it's a shield, it's affected. A magic shield is still a shield. Magic armor is still armor. My post wasn't a god mod or adding what's not there. It's a reiteration and clarification as to its abilities. Given both the name and description of Stillpiercer and the name and description of Shield to the Weak, it's logical to assume that Aegis would be qualified as a shield, thus vulnerable to being shattered by Stillpiercer.
This isn't a case of god-modding. This is just confusion regarding what looks to be a massive misnomer. It is both named and described as a shield, so it was interacted with as if it were a shield.
Then again, it's a moot point since you say Aegis ISN'T a shield. I just needed that cleared up before I make my next post
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
I disagree. You didn't state it outright in your character sheet, so claiming it in your second paragraph is brand new information. You can't reiterate what you didn't say in the first place. I think most people, including me which is why I reacted the way I did in my post, would assume that ability is only effective on physical items. Usually most role plays I've been in classify magic as one thing and physical objects as another, meaning if your abilities do anything to effect either of these classifications you need to state it specifically. You can just keep adding effects as you see fit throughout the whole story. Otherwise why would anyone bother to use a magical shield, when it's treated just the same as a regular one? There would be no point.
A shield to the weak is a misnomer, and perhaps quotation marks around the word "Shield" in the description would help clarify that, but regardless I don't think it'd be fair to call the kettle black here on an "absolute" ability as you called mine. You say mine is impervious but it is simply an effect spell with a certain AOE. Yours is "Stabs through any defense" when you're using it the way you say. Whereas with your original description it is balanced and only effects literal shields and armor.
Kylesar1
This is my loudest bork
There's nothing to add. If it's a shield or an armor, it's affected. There's literally nothing more to add to it. There's nothing more that CAN be added to it.
Yes, an AOE around him, which is the subject of this.
"Nullifies all momentum of physical attacks." This is pretty much nigh imperviousness to physical attacks, as every physical attack has and needs momentum to cause damage. The difference between a touch and a slap is momentum, so basically every physical attack would be the equivalent of a tap, from a punch to cannonfire. If a meteor falls from space smack dab on William, it won't do any damage if all of its momentum is nullified. Damage would come from a burn or being crushed by the weight, but not a literal meteor hitting from space
When the SPECIFIC ATTACK Stillpiercer (that can only be used a max of 3 times in one "session") is used against it, yes it's treated the same. This isn't treating 2 different shields as the same in every scenario. It's the case of 2 different shields in a highly specific situation where they would be seen as the same. In literally every other scenario, where there isn't an armor/shield piercing move being used against it, they are treated as 2 different things.
It's disingenuous to try to extrapolate this highly specific scenario to every scenario...........but if you want to go down that path, they are the same. The only difference is that one costs physical stamina to wield while the other costs Findross to wield. Functionally the exact same thing.
The balance of Stillpiercer comes from the fact that he can only use it twice and the 3rd makes him too weak to swing anything heavier than a dagger, effectively making him useless. Dodge 2 Stillpiercer attacks and he can't use it again as it's effectively a kamikaze attack. Get a thick armor and it's resistant (hence the outright shatter any weaker material as mentioned). So material can use a bit more clarification, but it's moot here, since William wasn't wearing ANY armor.
Plus, saying Stillpiercer is balanced as described but OP as used is also a moot point. The Grace Divine Hands allows him to hit ANYTHING with his moves. Even if Stillpiercer affected only the physical, when paired with Divine Hands, he can hit ANYTHING. Yes, ANYTHING. Even ghosts where physical attacks would normally pass through them. A magic shield can also be pierced or shattered.
Shattering defenses and being able to fight both the physical and the metaphysical
Yes, he can shatter most defenses for 2 attacks. A third time will render him too weak. Even if it doesn't hit, it counts as a use. That sounds pretty balanced to me.
At the end of the day though, you're attacking this as OP in a situation where it's moot. You say Aegis ISN'T a shield, so there's nothing to pierce. MY issue is that this is named and described as a shield. From the fact that he was standing there ready to take the attack, not wearing or holding ANY form of protection, it's also used as a form of shield.
- Named as a shield
- Described as a shield
- Used as a shield
It's either a shield, in which case it was shattered, which is in line with my CS. Or it's not a shield, in which case the ability is made to sound as misleading as possible........which I don't buy.
I really don't care if A Shield to the Weak exists or if it's OP. I honestly feel like this is just a case of intentionally misleading or God-modding because something that is named as a shield, designated as a shield, described as a shield, and used as a shield can't be interacted with as a shield. And I think you're NOW calling it a misnomer because you don't like that William's grace can be nullified by Solomon's Charm. Otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing that Stillpiercer, a move designed to pierce defenses, is OP. If a shield to the weak isn't a shield and can't be pierced since it's not a shield, there is no discussion to be had.
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
Birdsie
The God-Emperor of Mankind
OiBirdsie can you get in on this?
I've reviewed the contents of the argument and I believe, in the specific context of this situation, A Shield to the Weak dominates Stillpiercer. The latter is a Charm, while the former is a Grace; one is a superpower, the other is a considerable enhancement.Yeah that's the only way we're going to settle this clearly. So whatever you think
In most situations, Graces > Charms. Supernatural darkness created with a Grace won't be easily seen through with a sight Charm, although such a Charm could definitely help. I think William would take light damage from a Stillpiercer-enhanced attack, but only slightly higher than he would from a powerful normal attack.
Kylesar1
This is my loudest bork
Guess the matter is settled then
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
Fair enough, if it were a real sword he'd have gotten a sizable gash then from the attack.
Silver Wolf
Something Random
Kylesar1
Kobe Nathan Wade
To add some points as a neutral 3rd party I'll say this.
William's grace in the CS states:
"The shield covers his whole body and cannot be extended to another. It all but nullifies momentum of physical attacks. This grants the boy captain defense against blunt trauma, but does not offer any protection against magical spells, energy based attacks, or even simply being cut or stabbed. Makes punches feel like being hit with a pillow, but a fireball is still a fireball."
To point out what Kylesar said, it is described as a shield and never mentioned as anything else. To bring down Kylesar's point of it being OP, he is still susceptible to basically all magic and cutting damage. Get a knife around his neck, and that will do it. My assessment wouldn't count that as OP, under many circumstances. Though I feel Piercing damage from spears or spikes needs to be addressed. Also perhaps adding a Findross cap could avoid future issues with situations like a meteor?
Also, in regard to Solomon's description for Stillpiercer:
"This allows a sword stab or shot arrow to pierce shields or armors. A fist or mace hit can outright shatter armors and shields of weaker material. He has only 2 uses before the third will make him too weak to swing anything heavier than a dagger."
I hate to say this Kylesar, but I have to side with Kobe for this. Not anywhere is "all shields" described, magical or otherwise. It also only describes physical properties of shields. In that case, pulling out the it works on magical shields, came out of nowhere. You can't list physical properties after stating just 'shields and armor' and expect people to assume it means every shield under the sun. Sorry if that sounded sarcastic.
On another note, with Birb's information on the situation, I know this was fixed without me needing to step in. I just wanted to provide an analysis of what each missed or didn't communicate relating to the CSes and the post so we can hopefully avoid this in the future.
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
You're right, I did call it a "shield" when that isn't exactly how it works, because I do describe it as being an effect which applies to weaponry or whatever else may assault William. I used the word "shield" just as a term for a protective spell not meant to be taken literally, but of course that wasn't clear or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.
To add some points as a neutral 3rd party I'll say this.
William's grace in the CS states:
"The shield covers his whole body and cannot be extended to another. It all but nullifies momentum of physical attacks. This grants the boy captain defense against blunt trauma, but does not offer any protection against magical spells, energy based attacks, or even simply being cut or stabbed. Makes punches feel like being hit with a pillow, but a fireball is still a fireball."
To point out what Kylesar said, it is described as a shield and never mentioned as anything else. To bring down Kylesar's point of it being OP, he is still susceptible to basically all magic and cutting damage. Get a knife around his neck, and that will do it. My assessment wouldn't count that as OP, under many circumstances. Though I feel Piercing damage from spears or spikes needs to be addressed. Also perhaps adding a Findross cap could avoid future issues with situations like a meteor?
Also, in regard to Solomon's description for Stillpiercer:
"This allows a sword stab or shot arrow to pierce shields or armors. A fist or mace hit can outright shatter armors and shields of weaker material. He has only 2 uses before the third will make him too weak to swing anything heavier than a dagger."
I hate to say this Kylesar, but I have to side with Kobe for this. Not anywhere is "all shields" described, magical or otherwise. It also only describes physical properties of shields. In that case, pulling out the it works on magical shields, came out of nowhere. You can't list physical properties after stating just 'shields and armor' and expect people to assume it means every shield under the sun. Sorry if that sounded sarcastic.
On another note, with Birb's information on the situation, I know this was fixed without me needing to step in. I just wanted to provide an analysis of what each missed or didn't communicate relating to the CSes and the post so we can hopefully avoid this in the future.
Birdsie
would it be okay if I edited my sheet to say "The 'magical effect' does XYZ" instead of using the word shield to prevent the discrepancies in the future.You described perfectly well
Silver Wolf
his weakness to blades. If you simply drug one across his neck you could slit his throat but if you threw one at him it would stop at the skin and clatter to the floor. I'll try to include something to clarify this as well if Birdsie approves an edit.
Silver Wolf
Something Random
Kobe Nathan Wade
boop, you there?
Kobe Nathan Wade
One Thousand Club
Silver Wolf
im here, whats up? Waiting on your reply to my move.
Funnier President
Muncher of Randomness
Lighting Assassin boi coming!
