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Suggestion Ghosting Punishment

Probably George

Голова дерьма
Supporter
Why isn't there a system to let you know someone often ghosts? I've finished 1 rp on this site. Most of the others were me just getting ghosted. Weither it be in 1x1 or groups. It's the only I reason I don't want to post my own ideas for groups; it would be a waste of time since there's a 95% chance it's gonna be ghosted and just die within a month.

At the very least, give people a reputation system to see if others had any issues with that person. Maybe a ghost counter too.
 

Fyuri

ηεмσρнιℓιsт
Administrator
Why isn't there a system to let you know someone often ghosts? I've finished 1 rp on this site. Most of the others were me just getting ghosted. Weither it be in 1x1 or groups. It's the only I reason I don't want to post my own ideas for groups; it would be a waste of time since there's a 95% chance it's gonna be ghosted and just die within a month.

At the very least, give people a reputation system to see if others had any issues with that person. Maybe a ghost counter too.
The problem is very apparent when you look at site's like YT; it can be horribly abused. We do not want to invite 'cancel culture' to RpNation. Ghosting happens in all RP communities unfortunately and there is no true solution to it beyond should someone ghost you, you can choose to not give them a second chance to RP with you later on.
 

Probably George

Голова дерьма
Supporter
The problem is very apparent when you look at site's like YT; it can be horribly abused. We do not want to invite 'cancel culture' to RpNation. Ghosting happens in all RP communities unfortunately and there is no true solution to it beyond should someone ghost you, you can choose to not give them a second chance to RP with you later on.
Yea, but at that point it's just trial and error. I'm on and off because getting ghosted makes me lose all motivation. It'd be a lot easier to weed out those who don't respect their partner enough to give them a heads up.
 

Fyuri

ηεмσρнιℓιsт
Administrator
Yea, but at that point it's just trial and error. I'm on and off because getting ghosted makes me lose all motivation. It'd be a lot easier to weed out those who don't respect their partner enough to give them a heads up.
The problem is ghosting is circumstantial. Someone irl may have been in a car accident, health problems, physiological or psychological stress, etc. There are some users who do ghost for other reasons which are unfair to others, but we won't implement a punishment system which can be abused and negatively impact users unfairly.

It sucks to lose motivation, it happens to us all. It's a bit like writer's block even. It's a phase and eventually it may pass. We've all been ghosted before. We've all had writer's block. And we've all had times where we have lost motivation.
 

kevintheradioguy

Salt
Supporter
Might I suggest looking through people's post history to get the idea whether or not they ghost before accepting a request? I have dodged a few bullets by just looking at thread RPs, how often a person posts and if the RP is unfinished - who was the last one to post in it.


We do not want to invite 'cancel culture' to RpNation
And this is a very important thing on this website, imo. Why I consider it better than most of the same theme; and the reason i actually went through the trouble of registering on Patreon for support: the lack of cancel culture is a big part of the community.

Yes, it's trial and error, and for every good RPers you'll get fifty ghosters. But that is always a thing anywhere you go. You might just go through the trouble of making a small research of the person if you want to be absolutely sure in them.
 

Idea

The Pun Tyrant The Gif Hydra
Helper
Let's take a look at some facts:
->searching for roleplay can be hard as it is, especially for the most niche
->most if not all people on RPN have or will ghost at some point
->a good percentage of RPN suffers from some forn of anxiety or depression, and even those that don't are not generally people whom you can expect to be the most social IRL. (This is relevant here because such matters make people more prone to ghosting, as they have that much of a harder time confronting people regarding their dissatisfaction with a roleplay).

Now let's say we do implement a system of "ghosting report" where a person can be labeled for ghosting.
*You now have a logistical nightmare in your hands where ghosting has to be defined in exact terms, or the term becomes entirely slander. For instance, when exactly does ghosting start? A few days? A week? A month? Depending on who you ask, the answer changes a lot. There's also the fact that for some ghosting just needs to imply the person isn't posting IC (usually if they are posting IC elsewhere) while for others it means there is no OOC activity either.

*Even if you ignore that, there is no physical way to measure that time, there is no mechanical system the site could ever use to actually measure the time someone hasn't posted on something they should without this also targeting entirely innocent accounts (if you contact someone on PM, maybe just asking something, then didn't reply for a week cause it wasn't a conversation just a question, you could end up flagged by a system that measured the raw time it took you to reply to the conversation). In other words the only way to implement this would be to rely on people personally and freely reporting what they perceived as ghosting.

*Even ignoring the ineviable event of people abusing the system to slander or bully people, the fact of the matter people can't even keep up with much less volatile rules (for instance, you will find new players often posting interest checks in the wrong areas of the site, very recently a lot showed up in "fiction", despite the fact there are some three different guides that you will tell you not to do that, and the very description of the subforum on the subforum itself). Even people without malicious intent would still call someone out for ghosting when it wasn't appropriate, in the heat of the moment.

*Any system that permanently or semi-permanently labels someone for ghosting, even if we ignore every single instance of this being done wrongly, still fails to account for the possiblity of the person changing for the better as they discover more about their own style or learn to manage themselves better, and also the possibility the person was just going through a rough patch.

*People who ghost still have a right to roleplay, or better said, have as much of a right to it as people who don't (nobody has a right to the effort and time of others, but you shouldn't be actively impeded from roleplaying altogether, though you could in theory be if you happened to be rejected from every single roleplay, without any of those roleplays violating any right of yours). The proposed system would invite a culture of actual discrimination and mistrust.
 

The Dark Wizard

🔥
Administrator
Let's take a look at some facts:
->searching for roleplay can be hard as it is, especially for the most niche
->most if not all people on RPN have or will ghost at some point
->a good percentage of RPN suffers from some forn of anxiety or depression, and even those that don't are not generally people whom you can expect to be the most social IRL. (This is relevant here because such matters make people more prone to ghosting, as they have that much of a harder time confronting people regarding their dissatisfaction with a roleplay).

Now let's say we do implement a system of "ghosting report" where a person can be labeled for ghosting.
*You now have a logistical nightmare in your hands where ghosting has to be defined in exact terms, or the term becomes entirely slander. For instance, when exactly does ghosting start? A few days? A week? A month? Depending on who you ask, the answer changes a lot. There's also the fact that for some ghosting just needs to imply the person isn't posting IC (usually if they are posting IC elsewhere) while for others it means there is no OOC activity either.

*Even if you ignore that, there is no physical way to measure that time, there is no mechanical system the site could ever use to actually measure the time someone hasn't posted on something they should without this also targeting entirely innocent accounts (if you contact someone on PM, maybe just asking something, then didn't reply for a week cause it wasn't a conversation just a question, you could end up flagged by a system that measured the raw time it took you to reply to the conversation). In other words the only way to implement this would be to rely on people personally and freely reporting what they perceived as ghosting.

*Even ignoring the ineviable event of people abusing the system to slander or bully people, the fact of the matter people can't even keep up with much less volatile rules (for instance, you will find new players often posting interest checks in the wrong areas of the site, very recently a lot showed up in "fiction", despite the fact there are some three different guides that you will tell you not to do that, and the very description of the subforum on the subforum itself). Even people without malicious intent would still call someone out for ghosting when it wasn't appropriate, in the heat of the moment.

*Any system that permanently or semi-permanently labels someone for ghosting, even if we ignore every single instance of this being done wrongly, still fails to account for the possiblity of the person changing for the better as they discover more about their own style or learn to manage themselves better, and also the possibility the person was just going through a rough patch.

*People who ghost still have a right to roleplay, or better said, have as much of a right to it as people who don't (nobody has a right to the effort and time of others, but you shouldn't be actively impeded from roleplaying altogether, though you could in theory be if you happened to be rejected from every single roleplay, without any of those roleplays violating any right of yours). The proposed system would invite a culture of actual discrimination and mistrust.
This basically.

Theres no way to enforce it and even if we came up with some way, people don't read things enough as they are. Regardless of how easy to understand and organized it becomes over time. Forums even as big as ours suffer from the situations that afflict sites like Social Media and other communities, except those big sites like Facebook, Twitter, etc have billions of dollars and massive teams of staff to try to handle all the disorganization caused by users not reading or understanding instructions, regardless of how basic they are.
 

MDL

RIP Doctor Calgori (2012-2017)
Yea, but at that point it's just trial and error. I'm on and off because getting ghosted makes me lose all motivation. It'd be a lot easier to weed out those who don't respect their partner enough to give them a heads up.
I think this problem can be solved by just being active in the community. Some members who have been here for a long time handpick people for their RPs because they know that they have a good experience with these people. I think the antidote to your ailment is to remain active instead of giving in to demotivation. Not that I don't feel you, we all do I think.
 

Nue

seal enthusiast
I think this would just end up creating a really tense atmosphere and, probably, a lot of unneeded drama too. It can feel really shitty to put a lot of effort into a character or plot and not have it go anywhere, so I get it, but that's just something that comes with the hobby, unfortunately.
 

DisneyGirl

Into The Unknown
First off, let me just say I feel your pain. Believe me, I really do.

But punishishment? Ratings? Really?

Yeah, that works with Uber drivers and other business transactions; but roleplaying is a hobby, not a job.

Ghosting sucks, but it's what comes with the hobby and I doubt a roleplaying community could survive long-term on a platform that had such a system because almost everyone ghosts or will ghost.

That doesn't excuse the bad behavior, but at the same time, it's not that serious. We're all just doing this for fun at the end of the day. As long as you have fun and get some writing/creativity practice in the meantime while a roleplay lasts, why consider it a waste of time?
 

Emotional Enigma

Empathetic Empress
I hate being ghosted too bro. Gets under my skin since it takes 2 minutes to log onto RpN from your phone and send a quick "Emergency, can't RP for awhile". Or even take 3 days or so before logging in to say something but theres no excuse for weeks and weeks of no communication to at least say bye
 

LostFairy

Stitch
Personally I keep a list in my private workshop of people who have joined my rps that either ghosted or just sucked in general, like insane power playing and idiots who manage to be everywhere at once and have long detailed excuses as to why they can do that.

But I get it, man. I actually have not gmed in a very long time because I just can't handle it when people do that. I've had entire rps that did that. All of them in like a day. It is truly frustrating.
 

Probably George

Голова дерьма
Supporter
Personally I keep a list in my private workshop of people who have joined my rps that either ghosted or just sucked in general, like insane power playing and idiots who manage to be everywhere at once and have long detailed excuses as to why they can do that.

But I get it, man. I actually have not gmed in a very long time because I just can't handle it when people do that. I've had entire rps that did that. All of them in like a day. It is truly frustrating.
Loads private workshop with malicious intent
 

JadeGreen17

Chimeric Spirit
As much as I can completely understand all the rebuttals to the OP, I would at the same time like it if a system like this were in place, having put endless hours into RPs only for people to throw down smoke pellets and disappear a few posts in.

Perhaps instead of a negative red-flag "this person has been known to ghost" type of system, a more positive green flag "this person has been known to stick with it" type of system would work. Like you can give rep to other consistent/enjoyable players.
 

Nove NuVonde

Certified worm boy
As much as I can completely understand all the rebuttals to the OP, I would at the same time like it if a system like this were in place, having put endless hours into RPs only for people to throw down smoke pellets and disappear a few posts in.

Perhaps instead of a negative red-flag "this person has been known to ghost" type of system, a more positive green flag "this person has been known to stick with it" type of system would work. Like you can give rep to other consistent/enjoyable players.
Honestly I feel like any kind of rep at all would encourage favoritism, a veteran class, and overall just make the site really unwelcoming to new users. Imagine joining and having no friends or experience to give you good ratings. How are you supposed to compete with users who have been on the site 3+ years and have a super high rating?
 

Tove

Speak Your Truth.
Pretty much everything has been answered already but still I will put in my opinion too. Any kind of rating system to put people on the spot whether or not they ghost is a bad idea it would stand to put members on display and lead to drama which there's already enough of. Ghosting is and always will be something happening in the roleplay community. It sucks but it is beyond anyone's control. You have to take the good with the bad meaning you'll put out ideas, spend countless times planning, and going through partners.
 

Idea

The Pun Tyrant The Gif Hydra
Helper
As much as I can completely understand all the rebuttals to the OP, I would at the same time like it if a system like this were in place, having put endless hours into RPs only for people to throw down smoke pellets and disappear a few posts in.

Perhaps instead of a negative red-flag "this person has been known to ghost" type of system, a more positive green flag "this person has been known to stick with it" type of system would work. Like you can give rep to other consistent/enjoyable players.
If I may interject, I'd like to propose the following: Let's ignore everything negative about the system, like the impraticality of implementing it, the high potential for abuse and negative atmosphere it would bring to the site. Let's just ignore all of that, and focus on the reason I suppose (and do correct me if I'm mistaken in my assumption) that one might want such a system: THe results, this is, the reducing of the number of cases of ghosting.

While it is true that it probably would reduce the number of ghosting incidents, there are two major caviats to it. The first is that this reduction would be minimal. The reasons people ghost aren't born of a rational conscious decision to do it. People ghost even if they understand that they shouldn't and that there are much better ways to go about things. This is because the reasons for ghosting tend to be associated with either A) IRL issues, potentially emergencies or B) the person's own anxiety or simple issues with social interaction causing them to be unable to communicate to their partner their desire to leave or to change things. Anyone else will either communicate with you, and only a very very tiny subsection is an actual prick who will just ghost you out of will intent.

This isn't to at dismiss the problems, disappointment or even pain caused by ghosting. The problem is very real and of course still in quite a need to addressing. But a reputation system would only affect the people who ghost while being able to stop themselves from doing so and who care enough about the system to change their ways.

But even when we just look at the people who stay without ghosting you, what partners are you actually keeping? Someone who is too scared of the system to quit, but is unable to tell you they have no interest in the RP any longer or that they have a major problem? You're looking at a massive waste of time dumping your hard work and dedication in the face of someone who genuinely doesn't care and will only respond half-heartedly at best. Or in the case of the *ssh*l*s who don't want to get hit by the system they'll just find another way to be jerks, and this time anyone they work with is even more likely to be their victim, as an attempt for either to leave could be flagged as ghosting.

In other words, even the results such a system did produce would be lackluster if not counterproductive. You might see a reducting in ghosting incidents, but you'd see a spike in horrible roleplay experiences.
 

Emotional Enigma

Empathetic Empress
If I may interject, I'd like to propose the following: Let's ignore everything negative about the system, like the impraticality of implementing it, the high potential for abuse and negative atmosphere it would bring to the site. Let's just ignore all of that, and focus on the reason I suppose (and do correct me if I'm mistaken in my assumption) that one might want such a system: THe results, this is, the reducing of the number of cases of ghosting.

While it is true that it probably would reduce the number of ghosting incidents, there are two major caviats to it. The first is that this reduction would be minimal. The reasons people ghost aren't born of a rational conscious decision to do it. People ghost even if they understand that they shouldn't and that there are much better ways to go about things. This is because the reasons for ghosting tend to be associated with either A) IRL issues, potentially emergencies or B) the person's own anxiety or simple issues with social interaction causing them to be unable to communicate to their partner their desire to leave or to change things. Anyone else will either communicate with you, and only a very very tiny subsection is an actual prick who will just ghost you out of will intent.

This isn't to at dismiss the problems, disappointment or even pain caused by ghosting. The problem is very real and of course still in quite a need to addressing. But a reputation system would only affect the people who ghost while being able to stop themselves from doing so and who care enough about the system to change their ways.

But even when we just look at the people who stay without ghosting you, what partners are you actually keeping? Someone who is too scared of the system to quit, but is unable to tell you they have no interest in the RP any longer or that they have a major problem? You're looking at a massive waste of time dumping your hard work and dedication in the face of someone who genuinely doesn't care and will only respond half-heartedly at best. Or in the case of the *ssh*l*s who don't want to get hit by the system they'll just find another way to be jerks, and this time anyone they work with is even more likely to be their victim, as an attempt for either to leave could be flagged as ghosting.

In other words, even the results such a system did produce would be lackluster if not counterproductive. You might see a reducting in ghosting incidents, but you'd see a spike in horrible roleplay experiences.
Maybe a button system would be better then. Trash this whole idea of a rating system, what about implementing something like 2 buttons on the top of RP pms or threads that said [I'm dropping out] and [I need some time to respond].
Or maybe just one button for dropping out of an RP.It's easy, simple and eliminates the anxiety of having to tell the person, you can just click a button and the message closes and the other person gets notified. And this way even if they don't click it theres no repercussions on either end, it just adds a politeness? And with its simplicity theres a higher chance it'll get used. At least this way people know when their partner drops instead of waiting weeks and weeks for a response only to find out they won't get one.
 

Idea

The Pun Tyrant The Gif Hydra
Helper
Maybe a button system would be better then. Trash this whole idea of a rating system, what about implementing something like 2 buttons on the top of RP pms or threads that said [I'm dropping out] and [I need some time to respond].
Or maybe just one button for dropping out of an RP.It's easy, simple and eliminates the anxiety of having to tell the person, you can just click a button and the message closes and the other person gets notified. And this way even if they don't click it theres no repercussions on either end, it just adds a politeness? And with its simplicity theres a higher chance it'll get used. At least this way people know when their partner drops instead of waiting weeks and weeks for a response only to find out they won't get one.
Doesn't seem like a bad solution, and I wouldn't dismiss out of hand entirely. That said, we do have something similar, in that you can leave PM conversations and from what I understand (admitedly I don't tend to use PMs to roleplay so I am not as informed on this particular case) people who ghost don't tend to use the "leave conversation" button either which might think would work similarly to the buttons you are suggesting here.
 

Emotional Enigma

Empathetic Empress
Doesn't seem like a bad solution, and I wouldn't dismiss out of hand entirely. That said, we do have something similar, in that you can leave PM conversations and from what I understand (admitedly I don't tend to use PMs to roleplay so I am not as informed on this particular case) people who ghost don't tend to use the "leave conversation" button either which might think would work similarly to the buttons you are suggesting here.
Yes there is that button but it doesn't notify the other person of their leaving and that's what the issue is. Not that people are leaving but they are ghosting i.e not giving any heads up that they're not interested in the RP anymore. The leave convo button doesn't help anyone in this case, it just serves to unclutter the perpetrators inbox. Adding the feature where the recipient is notified of their departure would be helpful so they aren't in the dark or waiting. Also, it's kind of more complicated than it needs to be; once you have to open the message and then click it and then also click if you want to receive any messages attached to the one you're deleting in the future. I have a BA in psych and I can tell you with all those steps, as minor as they may be, it's still enough of a deterrent to go through the process anywho.


Edit: You could also leave the convo by entering your inbox and scrolling to the message, marking it, then using the dropdown menu at the bottom of the screen to read all the options and click the leave convo but that's still equally more complicated than it needs to be and if you want results you make things easy and simple
 

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