Experiences From Interest to CS: An Odyssey

[Murdergurl]

This topic is my attempt to address the egregiously long time it seems to take people to create a CS after they state interest. Yes, I know we all have lives outside of roleplay. I myself have a full-time job (with irregular hours, might I add). I also have a 5-year-old kiddo to take care of, a husband, etc. etc. I have a pretty full schedule most of the time, and no particular guaranteed time off for hobbies. I take the time where I find it. So, it baffles me when I see interests checks still running from 2 and even 3 weeks ago (sometimes far longer) that have people that had stated interest at its start still not having a CS ready and submitted. I'm like... HOW? Typically, I will have my character sheet done by the next day after stating my interest in the RP. If it takes two days to get it in, that's probably because I struggled to find good character art to go along with it. But weeks and weeks on end? WTF?

Big, red flags go up for me when I see players take his long to simply supply their character sheet. If it takes them that long just to fill out a CS, can they even be counted on to contribute posts to the RP in a timely manner once it gets underway?

Sometimes I feel like my own RTs might be a little too hard-nosed about the deadlines for recruitment. But the way I see it, if you can't give me a single character sheet in a week, then you probably can't give regular and decent posts in double time.

Why does it have to be such an odyssey to pull out character sheet submission from members interested in an RP? I'm hella busy, and I manage to find an hour or two to get this done. I don't think that's asking much from people within a weeks' time.

 

[Jannah]

For me it's a struggle because I just hate character sheets and am bad at them. For me to get a full feel for the character, especially their personality, I need to actually be writing them in a story. Like, things just don't come to me like they do some people. It takes a lot of thought and experimentation for me to get my characters just right.

 

[Sugarnaut]

When I struggle with character sheets, it's mostly because I become stuck on the muse. It really just tells me I don't want to continue on with the roleplay because I curate pre-made original characters to the story or I'm making a new character and haven't found the perfect tropes and story arcs I'd like to see for them.

That being said, I don't think it's okay to complain about cs submission when your ideal turn-around time for them is less than a week just because you personally can navigate that time for yourself. Instead, I'd message the player if they're having struggles because life happens and sometimes the source material is hard to write a character for. If I saw my gm complain about character sheets while I'm working on them, I would promptly exit and never return.

I can't really talk about waiting for character sheets since I've never had that issue, no matter the genre of roleplay I host. I'm always someone who'd rather get to know the roleplayer over the roleplay though so I'm not over here making deadlines and sending out corporate e-mails about their posts being due in 24 hours or they're kicked. I guess different GM styles come with different problems.

Also, some people are interested in joining but that doesn't entirely mean they will. I've been someone who loves complimenting a good interest check just because I WOULD join but other factors in my life get in the way. I would start seeing people who are interested more so a passing comment rather a vow of commitment if you're starting to feel personally hurt by them.

 

[Steve Jobs]

For the most part I join application based roleplays, so in that situation I want to take as much time as I can to write and edit my app/profile (usually up until the day of the deadline).

Barring that, it depends heavily on how busy and inspired I am. I do try not to keep the GM waiting however.

The main reasons I've seen people drag their feet are:
-Loss of interest/ghosting
-Forgetfulness
-General dislike for completing profiles
-Being unable to translate a concept into a sheet.

Some people require/prefer IC interaction to get a feel for the character. Some people can't compartmentalize their character into various boxes. I find that this is only an issue in group RPs (particularly with strangers) since they need to have a reference for your character before they can plot with you. In 1x1s, I'm fine with just a character pitch.

I do think people should be more clear about how interested they are in joining an RP. Is it unwavering interest? Conditional? Just waiting to see where it goes? They all mean very different things so it would help GMs (and other potential players) set their expectations.

 

[Cassie Lang]

If people don't get a sheet in, oh well. It's a hobby, not a job. The people in your example probably lost said interest for X reason, had life get in the way, etc. or for other reasons Foxy and others have mentioned above. That said, if someone doesn't have a sheet in after two or three weeks have passed, I honestly doubt they'd be still up for joining the roleplay.

Personally, I am fond of setting a deadline roughly a week or a week and half-ish ahead of time for people to get sheets in from the initial OOC. It remedies the issue of having to track people down for sheets. Of course, I'm willing to hear people out, such as when one of my players couldn't finish their sheet because they wound up in the hospital. But generally, I find that it works well enough for my players to get their sheets in, especially since my RPs run off an "application-based" acceptance, rather than "first come, first serve".

 

[Idea]

I take a very long time to make character sheets. I wouldn't say I struggle with them, but it is the reality that I take my time with them and I don't see anything wrong with that. Of course, it should be noted that I am someone who in the first place intentionally avoids RPs where you're expected to reply too frequently or quickly, as that is not my preferred playstyle and in fact is one that has proven time and time again to become overwhelming on my attention and schedule. I also try to avoid RPs where I don't expect to have a reasonably long time to make my character sheet if I need to.

Now, while I don't think it's irrelevant to the time you take to post the time you take to make a character sheet, I think it's a false equivalent. First of all, a typical character sheet is supposed to capture a lot of things in that are supposed to either stick with you for the rest of the roleplay or be the basis for which the character to establish their initial dynamics and growth/change in response to the circumstances, events and other characters. If you're just going to slap something together without thinking about it, then of course the final results of it are going to be crap. The sheet's complexity is also not always congruent with the RP's style or requirements, but assuming it is, then it's still something that should definitely take more forethought and iteration than your typical RP post (not that posts shouldn't have serious thought themselves, but it's a matter of scale).

So why do I personally tend to take as long as I do with character sheets?
1.My major reason is that I have too many ideas on what I want to try, but struggle more with settling on connectors that can satisfy me.
a) One of my main motivations for joining RPs is them getting my brain's gears turning, and immediately getting me to start thinking of possibilities, mainly in regards to a character. On some occasions, I have just one idea I need to then flesh out. But plenty of times I get several of them and I struggle to pick among them. What follows is a drown-out process of steadily eliminating possibilities or merging them into cohesive ideas that contain the core of several. The hard part is really cutting any of them or finding a way for those merges to make sense and not be forced, as I try to make them feel less than a mix and more like one concept that simply grows into complexities. My initial motivation and this process are among the reasons why to me dealing with a GM that will reject my character at the core without that core being contradictory to the roleplay's setting or plot is a massive dealbreaker, it can largely kill my motivation for an RP as well as make me feel that GM is untrustworthy (because rejecting a character at the core is as opposed to working with me to tweak the character to fit better without compromising that core thing, and if the reasons for doing such a thing seem too out of the blue then I can't trust them to not pull that kind of thing later in the roleplay and wreck even more of my hard work).
b) Once I know what I want, I start working on figuring out how to flesh out the character and integrate it with everything, particularly the disparate elements of itself. I do have my typical methodology of complementing my intuition/gut instinct with what I call 'the golden rule of consistency', which I've went over in several other threads and I don't think is relevant to describe in detail here. The point is that it is good for generating content for a character, world or plot that connected to what was established from the grounded up due to being rooted in what was established. However, as I continue to complete the character sheet, I am faced with parts where I feel something is missing or out of place, but I can't quite put my finger on what. Alternatively, I may come across two ideas that I'm having more trouble connecting (usually in backstory) due to the amount of blank space between them or maybe I need to make a list of some kind and I'm struggling for adequate examples. I doubt these issues are in any way unique to me of course, though they tend to be the result of some of my other choices and preferences, and while I could probably give them some resolution pretty quickly the problem is I can't bring myself to move it forward unless it flows well enough for me, unless it feels enough like a cohesive unit for me. These standards will often have me laser-focused on those issues until I either find a solution or give up.

2.I love to make personalized code for my sheets. Coming up with what I'm going to do for them, and then the many instances of trial and error in the many occasions where I am experimenting with something new, it's something which has in more than one occasion driven me to some nights of little sleep as I attempted to finish them. I also often make phone versions and a semi-coded version for those who aren't big fans of the code itself and/or would prefer to read the post without it.

3.I need or perhaps rather, prefer to have more information when I make the character sheet. I read other people's character sheets and within what's possible the lore. I re-read the plot and often I want to ask questions because I am just the kind of person who's rarely going to avoid poking on the limits of what's possible within a magic system or established lore or making characters that are more 'out there', because I like to find my own niche or unique place within a group, and because while I really appreciate and enjoy when someone takes a very normal/mundane character (for that setting), it's not the kind of approach I really find I want to do myself. In short, I like to know my options and to really make use of them. Part of that use is adapting my character and how I make them, particularly in small details, to work off of existing lore and other player's characters. Maybe I can bring some obscure part of lore to light and give the GM the chance to explore their ideas there. Maybe I can make a character that hits that sweet spot for the brooder to approach if they want to (without breaking character I mean). At the most basic, I can at least avoid stepping on people's toes, hopefully. While it's not like I usually actively avoid doing my sheet just to wait, there are times when I wait and see for specific details or because someone said they wanted to make a character within a certain role or some other reason that suggests something I have in mind for my character may or not work well.

4.Images are another thing that can take a long time. If you already have an established idea of what you want the character to look like, the specifics can leave you unsatisfied and it'll be hard to find that really 'fits right'. If not, one may still have trouble finding something that fits even the baseline possibilities and tone, or alternatively have too many finds and we go back to 1A. The later can especially happen in those situations in which the core elements I thought aren't enough to have a more solid idea of who I want the character to be, and thus I can seek more inspiration from the image in those situations.

5.I write a lot for my character sheets. I'm sure there's plenty of people who write way more than I do, but at least as far as I've seen for a standard, I would say (not all that surprising considering many people don't like writing character sheets in the first place, but I digress). As I believe it's been made clear, I put a lot of importance on what's written in character sheets. Both of those mean writing it is going to take a serious investment of time, focus and energy, both in initial writing and in the process of revision. So exhaustion, the need to slot away time specifically for it, and such would already be a reason for taking time, but I also have an issue which I've come to call "freezes" that often occurs when too much stuff I need to do piles up at once (usually because of a combination of last minute changes in details, information that wasn't properly conveyed to me, underestimating how much work some of my work might take or the sheer lack of functionality of some tools, sickness, vacation plans I was not told about etc...). It's distinct from something like writers block or poor mood in that I know what I want to write, even can think of a few ways to do it, I just can't bring my fingers to type it, even at times if I am enthusiastic in that moment about what I'm going to type. Despite the name 'Freezes' arent' always entirely paralyzing, but they can slow me down considerably which forces me to make even more time for posts or character sheets and that in turn lowers the number of times when that is feasible to try.


Now, with all of that said, of course there's still plenty of people who unfortunately just don't make their character sheets because they either stated interest on a whim and lost it, or never get around to working on it, or any other number of such reasons. I see that more as an extension of the problem of ghosting though.

 

[A Sparkling Zombie]

The reality is that a player may revoke interest at any point. I'm not exactly implying it's fair, or that there isn't maybe some room for reflection for some players, but that's what people are going to do. Personally, I have expressed tentative interest and then lost it because I saw the characters or the other players and figured I wasn't going to be a good fit. I usually won't say anything because I don't think it's a good look for an interest check if someone's publicly changing their mind, but I explicitly use the word "tentatively" anyway, so that should at least clue in the GM to not place much stock in me.

I agree with Foxy's point that players could try to be clearer about their level of interest. Some GMs do put a lot of effort into their games, and I could see how a lot of people expressing interest, when their hearts aren't really in it, could deter others, who might actually be interested, from doing so.

 

[Jannah]

As mentioned up above I am not a fan of character sheets as I'm the type of person who needs to write the character first to get a full feel for them. Because of that I will just be straight up honest and say that a GM requiring long and extensive character sheets is often a turn off for me and a reason for me losing interest. Likewise with those expecting complex coding (I don't know the code that is used on this site). I get that character sheets are pretty much a necessity in group RP, but that's why when I do my own I like to keep them pretty basic. I prefer to see characters fully unfold within the story itself.

 

[Murdergurl]

Okay, so real talk (though I assume the reason of this topic was pretty obvious from the start): I'm putting together an RP setting and hope to have it together by maybe the end of next week if irl doesn't delay me too much. And since the last... I dunno, 7? 8? 10? RPs I've tried to propose on here haven't gone well through the recruitment process, I'm just trying to overcome that hurdle. So, I'd like to address the lot of you in a manner that I might help me glean a better way to approach recruitment so I can have better results.



Jannah
What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of time to get a CS done and submitted? Usually, I give my RPs a full week from post up to deadline. I'm afraid of letting the deadline run longer because I don't want people who showed initial interest to give up during the wait. I, personally, will drop out of RPs I was interested in if they are still trying to get their group recruited after a week. So, I project that sentiment onto potential applicants.

Personally, I don't like to ask a whole lot out of my character sheets. The basic info, obviously: Name, Height, Species, etc. And then a brief background. And I mean brief. Like, A paragraph will totally suffice. And maybe a signature piece of equipment of something for flavor. I actually don't want people to be writing out a small novel for their character background. If it's fandom-based and they have a character they made for it ready to go. Yeah, sure... whatever (I have characters like that. myself). But if the RP is my own original setting, it would be stupid unreasonable for me to expect the players to write an extensive background in a setting they had no way of knowing about until they read it in my RT.

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Steve Jobs
So, my method of turning away those who are only giving a very fleeting interest, is to state within the parameters of the RT that I am only counting any given person as interested after they have submitted their CS. In other words, chiding in with "I'm interested" doesn't do a whole lot for me besides letting me know you clicked in and browsed the thread. I'm more of a "I'll believe it when I see it" kinda gal in that regard. At the very least, they should be asking questions about their character's creation process. But if they just lurk after an "interest post", I assume they aren't serious.

Now, I'm sure there could be a nicer way to word it, or at least a way to come off less crass. But I've just personally dealt with, and lurked on some RTs enough to see, a lot of those ghost-interests pop up. I'd just really like to cull those responders. I mean, I thought it would go without saying that I'd only like people to chide in with their interest if they really meant it. But do I really have to spell it out so blatantly?

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Cassie Lang
Yes, it is totally a hobby and not a job. But that's a two-way street. GMs are not getting paid to put together these ideas and propose them to the RP community. We do it of our own volition, using our (sometimes very limited) freetime to try and craft something for others to participate in. So, it's kind of a dick move to come in and state interest (sometimes even having the GM reserve something for you) and then dip out (often without notice). Or just drag out the whole application process because people are left waiting on a response that never comes.

At work, I at least get paid if people waste my time. At home, I don't. And I would appreciate it if people could be courteous enough not waste my personal free time with false pretense and half-hearted interests.

As I expressed to Jannah, I have set my deadlines for a week in many of my previous RTs. But I find that by the end of that week I am consistently left without the bare minimum number of players I wanted to start with. Because I've been in this game long enough to know that even the number you start the RP with is going to shrink within a few IC posts. It's so predictable, tbh.

Recruitment fails I could chalk it off to the various reasons people give for losing interest or not being able to participate. But it happens so often, not only in the things I've proposed, but in the other groups I've joined that weren't my own. It's the same excuses by different people all around (or the same people over and over), and it makes me wonder why half the community is even here if they don't actually have the motivation or availability to follow through with anything.

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Idea
Trying to tick off some of the points you made:

-What is too frequent of a reply rate for you? I'm sure everyone has their own range of comfort. But it would be great to be able to accurately gauge a medium to what people are happy with in terms of post-frequency.I'm sure that all depends on what kind of posts are expected. But all the details and what-if's aside, what would be an ideal post-rate for you?

-If a given RP had a centered theme of what all the characters were involved in and how they would know each other, would that shorten your time it took to complete a CS? I'm not doling out specific roles or anything. But the occupation and general picture of what the characters are, and are doing in the setting, is definitely in place. It's less things to mull over and figure out for the PCs.

- I tend to have a lot of lore to digest in most of my settings. There is definitely plenty to work off of. But tbh, I feel like all the lore might do a lot to turn a fair amount of people away. It's not going to stop me from producing lore-heavy settings. But I've read enough of the comments in the pet peeves or other such threads to know that a goodly amount of the community finds RTs with a lot of lore to be off-putting.

-fancy coding is actually something I adamantly ask people to refrain from in my RPs. I supply a simple character sheet template, and while I generally let people have free reign in how they'd like to provide character information, I most definitely want the format to be without all the "aesthetic" bells and whistles.

- If i were to supply an NPC or maybe a character that I would be using as a "main" despite being the GM, so you think that would help people along in being able to compare and contrast, so to speak?

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A Sparkling Zombie
As I said, stating interest doesn't mean a whole lot to me until people submit a CS, or at the very least start asking me questions about the setting so that I think they are at least working on it. But if people just chide in and wait... I assume they aren't serious about it. If they are waiting around to see what the others are going to post up as a CS, that's all fine. But from my perspective, it just seems like they changed their mind.

 

[Jannah]

Okay, so real talk (though I assume the reason of this topic was pretty obvious from the start): I'm putting together an RP setting and hope to have it together by maybe the end of next week if irl doesn't delay me too much. And since the last... I dunno, 7? 8? 10? RPs I've tried to propose on here haven't gone well through the recruitment process, I'm just trying to overcome that hurdle. So, I'd like to address the lot of you in a manner that I might help me glean a better way to approach recruitment so I can have better results.



Jannah
What do you feel would be a reasonable amount of time to get a CS done and submitted? Usually, I give my RPs a full week from post up to deadline. I'm afraid of letting the deadline run longer because I don't want people who showed initial interest to give up during the wait. I, personally, will drop out of RPs I was interested in if they are still trying to get their group recruited after a week. So, I project that sentiment onto potential applicants.

Personally, I don't like to ask a whole lot out of my character sheets. The basic info, obviously: Name, Height, Species, etc. And then a brief background. And I mean brief. Like, A paragraph will totally suffice. And maybe a signature piece of equipment of something for flavor. I actually don't want people to be writing out a small novel for their character background. If it's fandom-based and they have a character they made for it ready to go. Yeah, sure... whatever (I have characters like that. myself). But if the RP is my own original setting, it would be stupid unreasonable for me to expect the players to write an extensive background in a setting they had no way of knowing about until they read it in my RT.

Oh yea, I've seen your sheets and they are definitely what I would consider to be pretty reasonable. Some GM's expect super detailed sheets and everything developed about a character before the RP even starts. That's a bit much. Like, I have literally dropped out of RP's because I was expected to have a fully detailed sheet plus multiple headcanons before even writing anything in the RP. Headcanons, imo, are something that are supposed to develop as the story progresses and the characters properly interact with each other.

 

[Murdergurl]

Oh yea, I've seen your sheets and they are definitely what I would consider to be pretty reasonable. Some GM's expect super detailed sheets and everything developed about a character before the RP even starts. That's a bit much. Like, I have literally dropped out of RP's because I was expected to have a fully detailed sheet plus multiple headcanons before even writing anything in the RP. Headcanons, imo, are something that are supposed to develop as the story progresses and the characters properly interact with each other.

I agree. I heard someone call it "Pre-playing" once. In that, you do all this plotting and writing and story-work in the CS or in the OOC, but never implement in into the RP because it has built up so much pretense that you effectively overwhelm yourself with too many ideas to let the story flow and develop organically.

And in group RP, I feel like a lot of those details are lost anyway, as the story isn't focused on any individual character enough for those aspects to likely ever really come into play.

 

[Gowi]

What is too frequent of a reply rate for you? I'm sure everyone has their own range of comfort. But it would be great to be able to accurately gauge a medium to what people are happy with in terms of post-frequency. I'm sure that all depends on what kind of posts are expected. But all the details and what-if's aside, what would be an ideal post-rate for you?

I think most people, as they grow older in this hobby, just cannot keep up with a daily posting regiment even when their mental, home, and work situations limit their capability. I think "once a week" is a safe window, but everyone is different.

Why does it have to be such an odyssey to pull out character sheet submission from members interested in an RP?

People are just... fickle most of the time. I've been guilty of it. People I know have been guilty. For example, I wanted to move a RP forward yet I had a close friend who was so out of the headspace they couldn't give me a half-assed paragraph in three months, their depressing driving them into video games for all of their free time. I think with CS's there is a similar issues and the factors are likely vast and difficult to simplify.

 

[Cassie Lang]

Cassie Lang
Yes, it is totally a hobby and not a job. But that's a two-way street. GMs are not getting paid to put together these ideas and propose them to the RP community. We do it of our own volition, using our (sometimes very limited) freetime to try and craft something for others to participate in. So, it's kind of a dick move to come in and state interest (sometimes even having the GM reserve something for you) and then dip out (often without notice). Or just drag out the whole application process because people are left waiting on a response that never comes.

At work, I at least get paid if people waste my time. At home, I don't. And I would appreciate it if people could be courteous enough not waste my personal free time with false pretense and half-hearted interests.

As I expressed to Jannah, I have set my deadlines for a week in many of my previous RTs. But I find that by the end of that week I am consistently left without the bare minimum number of players I wanted to start with. Because I've been in this game long enough to know that even the number you start the RP with is going to shrink within a few IC posts. It's so predictable, tbh.

Recruitment fails I could chalk it off to the various reasons people give for losing interest or not being able to participate. But it happens so often, not only in the things I've proposed, but in the other groups I've joined that weren't my own. It's the same excuses by different people all around (or the same people over and over), and it makes me wonder why half the community is even here if they don't actually have the motivation or availability to follow through with anything.

I don't disagree with it being a dick move, of course. It is annoying to have people waste your time. But considering this is a hobby and the internet, where people can come and go with anonymity, people are going to do it no matter what for whatever reason of their own. You essentially have to roll with the punches here.

Honestly, if weekly deadlines aren't enough, then the only thing I can suggest is to find a few friends or a group that has proven to be stable enough for long-term RPing. I've had roleplays last years (a 1x1 tabletop roleplay, an AoT group RP, etc) in the past, and nowadays those people tend to form the central core of any RP I or they do. It's easier to keep each other accountable that way rather than guess if John Smith or whoever is actually going to join the roleplay and stick around.

Also, on a side note, paid roleplays do exist. I know other sites, in particular tabletop places, do have people pay for DMs or DMs selling their services. If they end up wasting your time, oh well, you're still getting paid.

 

[Gowi]

Cassie Lang

I think its a matter of building up your reputation and finding groups (or rather, people) who you are compatible with you and your expectations.

 

[Idea]

What is too frequent of a reply rate for you? I'm sure everyone has their own range of comfort. But it would be great to be able to accurately gauge a medium to what people are happy with in terms of post-frequency. I'm sure that all depends on what kind of posts are expected. But all the details and what-if's aside, what would be an ideal post-rate for you?

If you're looking for a standard I'm definitely not the best example. To my understanding your typical roleplayer will prefer considerably faster replies and shorter posts than the kinds I would consider preferable. Preamble aside, while it's hard to put an exact line in the sand for it (after all, depending on my available time and how attractive an RP I can give a little leeway), I would say once a week is definitely too frequent of a requirement and once every two weeks is where I would say it's more acceptable (though there is a reason why my 1x1s don't have post frequency requirements at all). This doesn't mean I won't deliver posts weekly or at times even on a daily in some rare exceptional cases, but I try to only make promises I can keep. Not only do I need time to make posts with an amount of content and degree of quality I can be satisfied with, but my availability tends to come in waves, where I either have a lot of free time or I'm being bombarded with one thing after another IRL despite my efforts to try to always give things some margins and to not bite more than I can chew (and this is not to mention that 'freeze' problem I referred to in my post). It's not going to be an occasional exception that I may not be able to deliver a post in a week because an extremely busy week can come out of left field and is not enough time for me to adjust to be able to guarantee I still deliver a post.

If you ask me my ideal post rate, I think 2-3 weeks. I understand that's very slow for a lot of people, but I don't mind waiting. If it takes a month or several to see the kind of posts I love to read in response to my own, that's fine by me.

If a given RP had a centered theme of what all the characters were involved in and how they would know each other, would that shorten your time it took to complete a CS? I'm not doling out specific roles or anything. But the occupation and general picture of what the characters are, and are doing in the setting, is definitely in place. It's less things to mull over and figure out for the PCs.

I doubt it. On one hand, for me to join at all those instructions couldn't be too strict/specific. Like I mentioned I like to try to find my own niche and often push the boundaries of what can be done within a magic system or the lore. My experience with very limited sets of options is that I either manage to negotiate some set of exceptions or I very quickly come to have this bored feeling of being walled down by all these unspoken restrictions, like I'm being funneled into a certain character. For someone like me for whom a major reason to RP is as an outlet to share my creativity, that's simply too stifling.

On the other hand, if those instructions aren't that strict/specific they'll probably do very little to provide me the kind of information I am looking for in other player's characters (as that information is used for me to find a niche as well as points to establish potential dynamics or interact with what that player seems to want to do, meaning the most relevant information is always the player's own input and not what they're told to put there by the guidelines) nor to really help me much in deciding which ideas I have to keep and how to connect them.

- I tend to have a lot of lore to digest in most of my settings. There is definitely plenty to work off of. But tbh, I feel like all the lore might do a lot to turn a fair amount of people away. It's not going to stop me from producing lore-heavy settings. But I've read enough of the comments in the pet peeves or other such threads to know that a goodly amount of the community finds RTs with a lot of lore to be off-putting.

Yes, I do believe you read right, though I would maybe frame it in another way. It's not so much that a setting being lore-heavy is a problem, but when said lore is put front and center at the player's expense as well as bad management of the delivery and availability of information. This can manifest in many many different ways, from an overfocus of attention in the world before you made players attached to it, to info dumps far too early, barely addressing what is or isn't possible within a magic system and more importantly on what players can do or be while simultaneously sharing a lot of information and using the fact that information was shared at all as an expectation that players will just know it.

It would be difficult to address every issue (heck, just naming them all probably wouldn't be feasible) but I were to say one thing one can do that would really help people getting into lore-heavy settings is switching 'no' or 'yes' for 'how'. This is not for every case of course - some things are just downright fundamentally impossible - but many others will be possible or at least approximately so. Similarly, some things which are possible and maybe even common may have nuances you may be able to share with your player and make them more interested in exploring. Maybe that character can be a travelling salesman, and that may be a good opportunity to tell them about this shortcut through the woods but that lately there's been some problem with may other merchants being too scared to travel on account of horrific sightings. Maybe they're character is brave, maybe they're intentionally trying to investigate that, or maybe it's just greed, you leave it to the player. Or perhaps another player wants to make some highly advanced energy shields, but energy shields aren't really a thing in this space opera setting, but perhaps there is a way they could have invented an early prototype, or there is some other material or power in a planet that the character could have employee to make something like energy shields. Basically, you give players the chance to do what they want, within reason and within what works for your setting by helping to navigate them through ways to get the core of their idea -and in the process you introduce them to aspects of your setting they might not otherwise care about, ingratiating them a bit to your setting through that.

-fancy coding is actually something I adamantly ask people to refrain from in my RPs. I supply a simple character sheet template, and while I generally let people have free reign in how they'd like to provide character information, I most definitely want the format to be without all the "aesthetic" bells and whistles.

That's fair enough. I wouldn't join such an RP, but each one should set rules to seek out a match for their preferences, factoring how much of an audience they are willing to narrow things down to. If your question is if that kind of thing would help reduce the time I would spend on a CS it would only in the sense that I wouldn't be making one at all.

- If i were to supply an NPC or maybe a character that I would be using as a "main" despite being the GM, so you think that would help people along in being able to compare and contrast, so to speak?

For many I think it would. I think a lot of people wait for the first CS because they're not sure how or where to start. For me it might actually have the opposite effect though, of as I no longer have the incentive to try to be the first and if anything I try to deviate from the standard.

 

[Gowi]

Another factor to consider is presentation matters.

You can have an aversion to coding and just want to get to business, but if your idea isn't well presented with good formatting then it'll attract much less people because they will assume your content has less effort into it. Though I will say, for me personally, myself, just me, if there's an obscene amount of formatting where I get the impression you put more concern into your style than your substance I'm not going to be interested. Tiny font? Compressed images? Etc. Nah, homie, you aren't a roleplayer you're a website designer.

 

[Murdergurl]

I think most people, as they grow older in this hobby, just cannot keep up with a daily posting regiment even when their mental, home, and work situations limit their capability. I think "once a week" is a safe window, but everyone is different.

I feel like a lot of people are just really bad at managing their time, tbh. I don't just mean in RPs, either. I just mean in general. Like, I'm almost 40, myself. As I stated in my opening post, I have a lot of peripheral stuff to occupy my time outside of work. But I manage to get shit done with that time. For instance, I'm typing this while getting my kiddo ready for the day, among other regular things. I most definitely can't do daily posts anymore, though.

I know everyone is different, and I guess it all comes down to priorities. But writing has always been a passion of mine. Despite how much it seems like I complain about RP, I really DO enjoy collaborative writing with others.

People are just... fickle most of the time. I've been guilty of it. People I know have been guilty. For example, I wanted to move a RP forward yet I had a close friend who was so out of the headspace they couldn't give me a half-assed paragraph in three months, their depressing driving them into video games for all of their free time. I think with CS's there is a similar issues and the factors are likely vast and difficult to simplify.

As Jannah and I were discussing, that's why I keep my requisites for a CS simple and to the point. What is required is pretty basic. If the players want to embellish it, that's on them, but in no means required, and I ask that they abstain from crazy coding designs. That way, the submission is easy and straightforward for everyone.

Another factor to consider is presentation matters.

You can have an aversion to coding and just want to get to business, but if your idea isn't well presented with good formatting then it'll attract much less people because they will assume your content has less effort into it. Though I will say, for me personally, myself, just me, if there's an obscene amount of formatting where I get the impression you put more concern into your style than your substance I'm not going to be interested. Tiny font? Compressed images? Etc. Nah, homie, you aren't a roleplayer you're a website designer.

While I'm not big into all the extra coding, I do make efforts to have my presentation easy to look at. I delete all my old RTs when they don't work out (or get underway as RPs), so I can't throw back a link to reference. But I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment of pouring more effort into the coding than the content.

I get that this hobby attracts nerds of all sorts. Hence why we have such complex coding in some of the RTs. But it just isn't for me, and I feel like attention I getting paid to the wrong aspect of the hobby in that regard. I mean, as long as people are having fun, they can do what they want with their own RPs. If that brings them satisfaction, more power to them. But for me personally, less is more.

---

I don't disagree with it being a dick move, of course. It is annoying to have people waste your time. But considering this is a hobby and the internet, where people can come and go with anonymity, people are going to do it no matter what for whatever reason of their own. You essentially have to roll with the punches here.

Honestly, if weekly deadlines aren't enough, then the only thing I can suggest is to find a few friends or a group that has proven to be stable enough for long-term RPing. I've had roleplays last years (a 1x1 tabletop roleplay, an AoT group RP, etc) in the past, and nowadays those people tend to form the central core of any RP I or they do. It's easier to keep each other accountable that way rather than guess if John Smith or whoever is actually going to join the roleplay and stick around.

Also, on a side note, paid roleplays do exist. I know other sites, in particular tabletop places, do have people pay for DMs or DMs selling their services. If they end up wasting your time, oh well, you're still getting paid.

I've had this suggested to me before, actually: The whole "cultivating a circle of friends to RP with". Unfortunately THAT is something I don't have the time for. Making time to write I can totally do. But gleaning friendships and elbow rubbing is a whole other bag of tricks that I most definitely do not have the time for. Making friends takes a lot of effort. And is not something I have the patience for. Especially online.

And as far as the getting paid, I don't want to turn this into a job. Nor am I particularly interested in TTRPG. I don't like dice and systems. It cramps my style. But its interesting to know that entrepreneurial efforts have gone that far as to have GMs ask for money for their time.

---

Idea
Thank you for your responses. I understand that through and through, you and I are most definitely not on the same page for RPs. I was just trying to gauge a range out of you, to help me try and compensate for an overall audience. Realistically though, your preferences are too far away on the spectrum for us to even remotely meet anywhere in the middle. But I do appreciate your taking the time to respond, regardless. It has, at the very least, provided some interesting insight.

---

 

[Idea]

Thank you for your responses. I understand that through and through, you and I are most definitely not on the same page for RPs. I was just trying to gauge a range out of you, to help me try and compensate for an overall audience. Realistically though, your preferences are too far away on the spectrum for us to even remotely meet anywhere in the middle. But I do appreciate your taking the time to respond, regardless. It has, at the very least, provided some interesting insight.

I agree. Regardless, if I was able to help at all, I'm glad I was.

 

[Gowi]

I've had this suggested to me before, actually: The whole "cultivating a circle of friends to RP with". Unfortunately THAT is something I don't have the time for. Making time to write I can totally do. But gleaning friendships and elbow rubbing is a whole other bag of tricks that I most definitely do not have the time for. Making friends takes a lot of effort. And is not something I have the patience for. Especially online.

A good percentage of successful RPs is just networking. It's not even high effort networking, but just talking with people, vibing with them, and collaborating. I'm 34 years old with a lot of responsibilities and I had no issues cultivating a culture around my RPs through just trial and error; meeting people, making bad jokes, and seeing who sticks around for the next try. If I had to break down successful RP-having it would be in these factors:

- Luck and Timing: Just right place, right time. People aren't busy. Everyone's in rhythm. Those kind of intangibles.
- Commitment Retention: Whether it's through networking and finding the right people or just knowing how to inspire the group who have signed up.
- Presentation: How aesthetically pleasing or well put together your OOC is.

Eventually, you'll click with something.

 

[Murdergurl]

A good percentage of successful RPs is just networking. It's not even high effort networking, but just talking with people, vibing with them, and collaborating. I'm 34 years old with a lot of responsibilities and I had no issues cultivating a culture around my RPs through just trial and error; meeting people, making bad jokes, and seeing who sticks around for the next try.

Yeah, I'm just not good at the whole networking thing. I have no issues talking to people as they come at random into public topics and the like. But when it gets too personal, I have like an aversion to it. I'm not good at vibing. That's one of the big reason's I really don't do 1x1 RP.

I mean, I dont go out of my way to be rude or gruff or anything. I try my best to be respectful and appreciative of other's time. But I can often be curt because once I get an RP going, that's what I'm here for. I like to get to the point and get to work on the RP. When people start memeing and getting sidetracked from the topic at hand (meaning the RP) I tend to just omit myself or try to steer the conversation back to the point.
One of the reasons I really dont like Discord for OOC is because it pretty much 100% devolves into exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

To put things into perspective, I haven't had an active social media account of any kind since the days of Myspace. An ex had me make a facebook account over a decade ago. But I can't even tell you the last time I logged in. I don't think I even remember my password, tbh.

If I had to break down successful RP-having it would be in these factors:

- Luck and Timing: Just right place, right time. People aren't busy. Everyone's in rhythm. Those kind of intangibles.

The fact that I'm even writing at this time of day is abnormal for me. Most of the time I'm at work right now. I commonly work weekends, and my time online isn't until the wee hours after midnight. Usually, my days off are sometime during mid-week. So, catching people in real-time isn't a usual. And tbh, I don't actually like chatting in realtime anyway. I prefer to give a response and have them get back to me at their leisure (usually the next day or something)

- Commitment Retention: Whether it's through networking and finding the right people or just knowing how to inspire the group who have signed up.

One of the things that I have always been perplexed about is that in years past, I had no issue in getting RPs underway. And it's only in the last 6? 7? (maybe 10?) -ish years that I've had a really hard time getting RPs done. My golden age of RP was definitely more than a decade ago. I guess it was a different crowd, i had more availability, we were into the same things, etc. It's just a lot harder to find peers now. I'm on the older end of the community so my pool is a lot smaller. Most people here wouldn't even know who Frank Frazzetta or Boris Vallejo were, but their artwork is some of the biggest contributors to my foundations of fantasy.

- Presentation: How aesthetically pleasing or well put together your OOC is.

Eventually, you'll click with something.

I will admit to you that I've been roleplaying online for (roughly) 25 years, and I have not carried over a single "friend" from any interactions or previous RPs I've had. Mind you, I'm not complaining. This is not something that bothers me, or even comes up in conversation unless the subject of cultivating a circle of RPers ever comes up.

It's just that really, it isn't something that I have a desire to attempt to undertake. Just the thought of having to go out there into the forums and try and fish for friends brings a wave of ... anxiety? No, that's the wrong word for it. It's not a fear. More like that feeling of dread you get when you know you have to go into work the next day and it's going to suck. Thats the feeling I get when I think about having to cultivate kinship with others (especially online). It's an unwanted chore.

 

[Gowi]

I don't know what to tell you. It seems your adverse to making connections with people and in your own words, curt to people when waiting for posts, so I'm not sure how much legs this managerial almost business-like approach is going to earn you on modern websites. I've been writing online since 1997 and what you described to me sounds like an anomaly. I hope you find what you're looking for, but I don't think I have any advice to give anymore.

 

[Murdergurl]

I don't know what to tell you. It seems your adverse to making connections with people and in your own words, curt to people when waiting for posts, so I'm not sure how much legs this managerial almost business-like approach is going to earn you on modern websites. I've been writing online since 1997 and what you described to me sounds like an anomaly. I hope you find what you're looking for, but I don't think I have any advice to give anymore.

I'm just introverted. I don't typically socialize unless it's for some kind of end goal. And the nuances of socialization really drain my enthusiasm for it. I do occasionally post in the off-content parts of the site just to kill a little time, I admit. But realistically, I think the driving reason I post up anywhere on the non-RP parts of the site is because the more someone is active, the more they are exposed and therefore might catch attention when they post up an RT. It's semi-methodical. I'm an ISTP personality type. So, I have this thing about efficiency and getting tasks done. Some see it as having too much of a work-minded approach to something that is supposed to be a hobby. But that's just how I do life in general.

Don't get me wrong. I lounge, I have lax time when I dont wanna do anything. But when I'm on a task, I'm ON that task. Even if it's a creative and fun task.
And when a task gets delayed for reasons outside of my ability to fix or otherwise remedy, it frustrates me. Hence the root of the problem for this entire post. lol

 

[Jannah]

One of the things that I have always been perplexed about is that in years past, I had no issue in getting RPs underway. And it's only in the last 6? 7? (maybe 10?) -ish years that I've had a really hard time getting RPs done. My golden age of RP was definitely more than a decade ago. I guess it was a different crowd, i had more availability, we were into the same things, etc. It's just a lot harder to find peers now. I'm on the older end of the community so my pool is a lot smaller. Most people here wouldn't even know who Frank Frazzetta or Boris Vallejo were, but their artwork is some of the biggest contributors to my foundations of fantasy.

Your difficulty with even finding partners is almost certainly an age issue as I said before in the past. I have similar challenges sometimes. This site tends to cater to a younger demographic so most of the active players will be looking for RP's based around whatever the current trends are. There's plenty of fandom RP's I see here where I have never even heard of the media in question. That's most certainly a me thing since a lot of the media I'm into is pretty old now. Basically stuff that has been around since the 90's and early 2000's.

Even with the non-fandom RP's there can be a lot of general disconnect due to being based around school themes, young adulthood, etc. Of course those aren't going to speak to someone of my age or even really be relevant to the stage of my life that I'm in. Yes, a big part of RP is playing a role of someone you're not, but I'm not RPing to relive parts of my life that I don't particularly have fond memories of, lol.

 

[Murdergurl]

Your difficulty with even finding partners is almost certainly an age issue as I said before in the past.

I've no doubt about that.

I have similar challenges sometimes. This site tends to cater to a younger demographic so most of the active players will be looking for RP's based around whatever the current trends are. There's plenty of fandom RP's I see here where I have never even heard of the media in question.

Same, especially when it comes to anime. That general media has exploded since the years I was a teen. I mean, it was a thing back then. But now, it a THING, ya know? It feels like every other RP req out there is an anime fandom. And even when its not, the players still want to insert anime tropes and character builds (and faceclaims) into RPs.

That's most certainly a me thing since a lot of the media I'm into is pretty old now. Basically stuff that has been around since the 90's and early 2000's.

A good majority of my favorite fandoms are originated from the 80's, 70s, and even further back. Most of my most favorite books are considered "classic" literature.

Way to make a gal feel old, right? lmao

Even with the non-fandom RP's there can be a lot of general disconnect due to being based around school themes, young adulthood, etc. Of course those aren't going to speak to someone of my age or even really be relevant to the stage of my life that I'm in. Yes, a big part of RP is playing a role of someone you're not, but I'm not RPing to relive parts of my life that I don't particularly have fond memories of, lol.

Here's the thing though, I've NEVER liked those kinds of RPs. I started RPing in middle school, and the thought of participating in a roleplay where my character was also a kid in school was off-putting even then. I've never, ever wanted to do those kinds of RPs. Even when it was totally my "age group". Modern, mundane slice-of-life types of RPs have never had an appeal.

 

[Jannah]

I've no doubt about that.


Same, especially when it comes to anime. That general media has exploded since the years I was a teen. I mean, it was a thing back then. But now, it a THING, ya know? It feels like every other RP req out there is an anime fandom. And even when its not, the players still want to insert anime tropes and character builds (and faceclaims) into RPs.

Yep. I've had to bail on RP's before because the players were using anime FC's in what is meant to be a realistic RP. It totally breaks the immersion for me. I just can't take characters seriously in a realistic setting if they have anime faces attached to them. Even more so if the face is a character from a well-known or popular anime. Anime FC's are fine in RP's that are meant to be more light-hearted and based on animated fandoms, but in live action stuff? No.

A good majority of my favorite fandoms are from originated from the 80's, 70s, and even further back. Most of my most favorite books are considered "classic" literature.

Way to make a gal feel old, right? lmao

You're actually not too much older than me, but most of the stuff I like tends to be the stuff I grew up. I'm a 90's kid so 90's and early 2000's fandoms are typically what I grew up with. I don't know a lot of the more recent stuff since I don't follow pop culture closely. I never have. If anything, there's book fandoms I would know, but nothing pertaining to anime, TV shows, etc.

Here's the thing though, I've NEVER liked those kinds of RPs. I started RPing in middle school, and the thought of participating in a roleplay where my character was also a kid in school was off-putting even then. I've never, ever wanted to do those kinds of RPs. Even when it was totally my "age group". Modern, mundane slice-of-life types of RPs have never had an appeal.

When I was younger I was almost esclusively a historical and fantasy RPer. Nowadays I do some realistic modern stuff, but there needs to be more to it than just slice of life. When I was in school I certainly wasn't RPing in school settings. Wasn't into it.