Other For the Benefit of Mr. Kent: Making better superhero RPs

[Crenando]

I've noticed a drop of quality and shortening of lifespan in recent superhero roleplays, and I wanted to share my thoughts in hopes that we, as a community, can come up with some ideas to amend this. This is a discussion thread. If you have any gripes yourselves, feel free to share them. It can be a trend with players or RP runners.

I'll start of with a pretty common one: In next generation-type RPs for pre-existing, I've noticed a tendency towards unfitting face claims with little resemblance towards their parents, and don't feel like they were raised by their parents to match.

 

[Birdsie]

I've got a problem:

People tend to habitually forgo discussion of characterization or plot structure in favor of chaotically building up a story as they go, which is fine in a sandbox setting where the character variety and player freedom is high enough to suit such a practice. However, seeing the GMs often have some kind of stricter control on the world (by, say, a proxy organization the characters belong to,) this tends to actually kill roleplays pretty quickly.

GMs need to have a better grip on where they want to go with things.

That is not to say players are perfect, either. Activity tends to drop because people get bored and drop the roleplay out of a lack of investment. I'm not sure if this is because people enjoy writing character sheets more than actually writing, but usually people start enthusiastic and grow jaded to a roleplay as time goes on.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

Super Hero RPs tend to force you to only use pics of real people 'cause "Ew, Anime!"

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

However, seeing the GMs often have some kind of stricter control on the world (by, say, a proxy organization the characters belong to,) this tends to actually kill roleplays pretty quickly.

"Every villain for the sake of realism are now in one singular organization... 'cause We saw it in MHA"

 

[rae2nerdy]

I think a thing to remember is to give characters equal (and realistic) weaknesses to all their strengths.

If your character is limited in some way it means they will struggle more which will in turn make the roleplay last longer

 

[Crenando]

Super Hero RPs tend to force you to only use pics of real people 'cause "Ew, Anime!"

Flat out never letting you use any illustrations period is counter-intuitive to a comic book superhero RP, an illustrated medium.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

I think a thing to remember is to give characters equal (and realistic) weaknesses to all their strengths.

If your character is limited in some way it means they will struggle more which will in turn make the roleplay last longer

often that's not the issue in those RPs... Even with a huge lean towards realism they tend to be kinda bad.

 

[Crenando]

I think a thing to remember is to give characters equal (and realistic) weaknesses to all their strengths.

If your character is limited in some way it means they will struggle more which will in turn make the roleplay last longer

I've been in RPs where this was enforced, but to the detriment of certain kinds of characters. You had to have a literal kryptonite of some variety or be weak to bullets.
Of course, one of the RP runners ignored this rule and got away with it.

Remember to be just in your rule of an RP, fellows.

 

[UnusualYak]

"Every villain for the sake of realism are now in one singular organization... 'cause We saw it in MHA"

Maybe it's just me, but I've found it to work better when all villains belong to the same group, especially if you're going to let people play as villains.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

Maybe it's just me, but I've found it to work better when all villains belong to the same group, especially if you're going to let people play as villains.

I personally find it creatively restrictive.

 

[Crenando]

Maybe it's just me, but I've found it to work better when all villains belong to the same group, especially if you're going to let people play as villains.

That works in something like My Hero Academia, but in settings with bigger power gaps, I don't think it works quite as well. Thanos and Arcade probably won't be on the same team, for example.
Maybe it's a testament to different MHA is, in a way.

 

[UnusualYak]

I personally find it creatively restrictive.

But that's not really a bad thing. Unrestricted creativity hurts an RP more than it helps it.

That works in something like My Hero Academia, but in settings with bigger power gaps, I don't think it works quite as well.

I disagree. Take the brotherhood of evil mutans for example, Magneto is arguably one of the strongest mutants in marvel comics yet his team includes people like Toad.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

I disagree. Take the brotherhood of evil mutans for example, Magneto is arguably one of the strongest mutants in marvel comics yet his team includes people like Toad.

Yeah but it's not really realistic to have only one villainous threat and that being only a team. Some of the most memorable stories come from villains with no association with a certain villain faction.

 

[UnusualYak]

Yeah but it's not really realistic to have only one villainous threat and that being only a team.

Maybe not, but it's not like PBP RP's are known for their realism.

Some of the most memorable stories come from villains with no association with a certain villain faction.

I'm not sure I see your point.

 

[Crenando]

I disagree. Take the brotherhood of evil mutans for example, Magneto is arguably one of the strongest mutants in marvel comics yet his team includes people like Toad.

Fair enough. I was talking about more generalized RPs in comic book settings, rather than a specific team-based RP.

Maybe not, but it's not like PBP RP's are known for their realism.

He's probably referring to an RP he and I were in previously. The RP-runners couldn't agree on what the tone was, so it was a weird hybrid between the kinds of superhero anime that were picking up steam at the time (MHA, OPM) and edgier, "grounded" superhero stories (inFamous, mostly.) The result wasn't great, and there was a lot of fighting OOC.

I don't think it's the prime example of what bad superhero RPs are like on the site today, since it was a unique situation.

 

[UnusualYak]

Fair enough. I was talking about more generalized RPs in comic book settings, rather than a specific team-based RP.

So were I. I just used an example based on a specific team to prove my point.

He's probably referring to an RP he and I were in previously.

If that were the case, it didn't come across that way.

But even if he's talking about one specific RP, the argument that "having all the villains belong to one team is bad because it's unrealistic" doesn't work because it hinges on the rest of your RP being realistic (which judging from your description of how things turned out, it wasn't).

 

[Birdsie]

Clumping villains together in one place limits the archetypes that can possibly apply to them. You can't have the comedic dark lord wannabe who loses every week on the same team as the true monsters who eat children's hopes and dreams for lunch.

It can make the entire thing feel terribly forced. Can you tell me that Joker and Darkseid would willingly cooperate in any situation? Darkseid might want to manipulate Joker, who is too crazy to be manipulated, but they definitely won't work together as equals, not to mention the sheer power-level disparity between them.

 

[UnusualYak]

Clumping villains together in one place limits the archetypes that can possibly apply to them.

True, but that's not really a bad thing. As I mentioned previously, I think unrestricted creativity hurts an RP more than it helps.

You can't have the comedic dark lord wannabe who loses every week on the same team as the true monsters who eat children's hopes and dreams for lunch

I'd argue you can't have those characters in the same RP, so you shouldn't really run into that problem.

Besides, it is possible to have such characters on the same team if you absolutely want to. To use my previous example, Toad is on the same team as Magneto.

 

[Birdsie]

I'd argue you can't have those characters in the same RP, so you shouldn't really run into that problem.

Besides, it is possible to have such characters on the same team if you absolutely want to. To use my previous example, Toad is on the same team as Magneto.

Yeah, you can, and I've seen it work, but they can't be on the same team.

You seem pretty stalwart in that belief for some reason, but that's just stupid. Did you ever participate in a RP where a requirement for the villains was to be a true monster? Or one where you have to be a whacko? Or where you have to be just a bank robber with superpowers? The extremes can exist in one setting, but they can't be focused into one place otherwise they'll create friction and risk in murdering each other.

And the same applies to heroes. You have the idealistic flying brick like Superman, and the edgy murder-vigilante like Red Hood. Both belong in the same universe, but would hardly fit the same team.

Joker wouldn't work well together with Plankton from Spongebob. Their motivations and personalities are too varied. One is a psychopath who finds joy and laughter in seeing people's guts spilled out on the concrete when Batman arrives, and the other wants to steal the Krabby Patty formula. But fair, let's argue they're from different universes and don't belong together.

Take Crazy Quilt for an instance. He wouldn't mesh well with Bane, but the two exist in the same universe. If they ever came close, Bane would probably break his neck like a chicken, but since they don't work in one organization, there's no problem.

The problem with having one organization is that it's too restrictive and unrealistic on many levels. There's villains who wouldn't conform to such authority, or ones who'd make their own teams.

 

[UnusualYak]

Did you ever participate in a RP where a requirement for the villains was to be a true monster? Or one where you have to be a whacko? Or where you have to be just a bank robber with superpowers?

Yes, yes and yes. And I found all to be more enjoyable than any rp in which everyone play as some random schmucks that have no connection to each other.

And the same applies to heroes. You have the idealistic flying brick like Superman, and the edgy murder-vigilante like Red Hood. Both belong in the same universe, but would hardly fit the same team.

Hence why you don't run an RP with both those type of characters.

Take Crazy Quilt for an instance. He wouldn't mesh well with Bane, but the two exist in the same universe.

Which is probably why one is reserved for the more sillier batman stories and the other for more serious ones. I mean, have they ever been a part of the same story?

This is also ignoring the fact that villains like the riddler, Lex Luther and Captain Cold have teamed up on a few occasions, like in the miniseries Justice for example.

 

[Birdsie]

Yes, yes and yes. And I found all to be more enjoyable than any rp in which everyone play as some random schmucks that have no connection to each other.


Hence why you don't run an RP with both those type of characters.



Which is probably why one is reserved for the more sillier batman stories and the other for more serious ones. I mean, have they ever been a part of the same story?

This is also ignoring the fact that villains like the riddler, Lex Luther and Captain Cold have teamed up on a few occasions, like in the miniseries Justice for example.

I've found that interaction between these kinds of characters is interesting, actually. It's like putting a wolf and a drunk rabbit in the same cage and seeing what happens. Limiting the pool of baddies to only serious masterminds might not result in staleness if executed well, but the variety of ideas that occur in roleplays results in player inertia and loss of interest eventually, which doesn't kill RPs in itself, but contributes to the problem. Letting people run free and have freedom in how they tackle their ideas makes for a more collaborative experience.

And yes. I've done it before and it worked splendidly. I'm not sure what kind of experiences you have, but I've run roleplays with multiple villain (and hero) teams before; several times even with multiple cities in the mix, and one of them was in the top five biggest superhero RPs on the site to date, I believe. I'd have to check how many pages it had to make sure, but I'm certain it was one of the biggest ones, though that was years ago so my memory might be iffy.

Nothing will come of this, anyway. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[UnusualYak]

I've found that interaction between these kinds of characters is interesting, actually. It's like putting a wolf and a drunk rabbit in the same cage and seeing what happens.

But if they can't work well enough together to function in the same team, what's the point? This is also assuming that these characters will be part of your avarage RP, so it'll have around 10 players at the most.

Limiting the pool of baddies to only serious masterminds might not result in staleness if executed well, but the variety of ideas that occur in roleplays results in player inertia and loss of interest eventually, which doesn't kill RPs in itself, but contributes to the problem.

I feel like this part, if nothing else, shows that we've been arguing about two different things. What I've been arguing is that restricting villains and heroes to one team each is a good thing, not that you have to limit yourself to just one type of villain. To use Justice as an example again, the villains who team up in that comic are Bizarro, Black Adam, Black Manta, Brainiac, Captain Cold, Cheetah, Clayface, Giganta, Gorilla Grodd, Lex Luthor, Metallo, Parasite, Poison Ivy, The Riddler, Scarecrow, Sinestro, Solomon Grundy and Toyman.

That's like 18 vastly different characters who can keep an RP intersting for a long period of time whilst still limiting the villains to one team.

Letting people run free and have freedom in how they tackle their ideas makes for a more collaborative experience.

To an extent yes. But it can also hurt an RP. For example, the vast majority of superhero RPs that let you play as a villain don't give the villains anything to do. So whilst you can let your creativity run free, there's not much you can do with it. Meanwhile, if every villain belongs to the same team you can much easier get them involved with the plot.

Now, there are instances where splitting the rp into multiple teams can work. But 95% of RPs doesn't have enough players to make that work.

Nothing will come of this, anyway. Let's just agree to disagree.

Maybe you're right, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

I've found that interaction between these kinds of characters is interesting, actually. It's like putting a wolf and a drunk rabbit in the same cage and seeing what happens. Limiting the pool of baddies to only serious masterminds might not result in staleness if executed well, but the variety of ideas that occur in roleplays results in player inertia and loss of interest eventually, which doesn't kill RPs in itself, but contributes to the problem. Letting people run free and have freedom in how they tackle their ideas makes for a more collaborative experience.

wouldn't that limit the kinds of stories you could tell? I mean when you beat the big bads what else can you do?

 

[Birdsie]

wouldn't that limit the kinds of stories you could tell? I mean when you beat the big bads what else can you do?

No idea, but all stories must have an end.

 

[Phantom Thief of Hearts]

No idea, but all stories must have an end.

true but I mean it's a bit much to have the villains from the start be a big organization without proper build up.