Psychie
Princess Psychie
True, but in the absence of that, I'll settle on a awesome post from Dannigan. So far, he has not let me down! I just can't wait!
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Fat Gandalf's Bar & Lounge (OOC chat) - Chapter Three
- Thread starter Purr
- Start date
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Ha ha! Thank you, Psychie! That is very high praise given how long you have been playing in my games! *hugs* =)
Psychie
Princess Psychie
Hear that, guys? He gave me hugs! Just don't tell your wife about us!
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
You are so bad.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Hah! Kaerri would hug you too if you were within arm's reach! We know good people when they're recommend and then invited to our games. =)
Psychie
Princess Psychie
Thank, Dannigan.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Here you go (as copy/pasted from 6 January 2018)!
For your convenience, here are your munitions.
As a reminder...
Muppet's Ajax (240/400 M.D.C.)
Bruce Leanne's Valkyrie (270/350 M.D.C.)
Mack's Red Baroness (350/350 M.D.C.)
For your convenience, here are your munitions.
Toph's/Muppet's Ajax munitions:
2/15 Mini Fragmentation 5d6 MDC
8/15 Plasma/Heat 1d6x10 MDC
and 30/30 HEAP 1d4x10 MDC
Elinor's/Bruce Leanne's Valkyrie munitions:
- GU-11 Gun Pod (23/25 bursts)
- two sets (10/10 missiles total) of HEAP SRMs
- one set (5/5 missiles) of Fragmentation SRMs
- one set (15/15 mini-missiles) of HEAP minis
Shirley's/Mack's Valkyrie munitions:
- GU-11 Gun Pod (22/25 bursts)
- 11/15 Plasma/Heat minis (1d6x10 MD, 1 mile)
- 10/10 HEAP SRMs (2d6x10 MD, 5 miles)
- 10/10 HEAP SRMs (2d6x10 MD, 5 miles)
- 11/15 Plasma/Heat minis (1d6x10 MD, 1 mile)
2/15 Mini Fragmentation 5d6 MDC
8/15 Plasma/Heat 1d6x10 MDC
and 30/30 HEAP 1d4x10 MDC
Elinor's/Bruce Leanne's Valkyrie munitions:
- GU-11 Gun Pod (23/25 bursts)
- two sets (10/10 missiles total) of HEAP SRMs
- one set (5/5 missiles) of Fragmentation SRMs
- one set (15/15 mini-missiles) of HEAP minis
Shirley's/Mack's Valkyrie munitions:
- GU-11 Gun Pod (22/25 bursts)
- 11/15 Plasma/Heat minis (1d6x10 MD, 1 mile)
- 10/10 HEAP SRMs (2d6x10 MD, 5 miles)
- 10/10 HEAP SRMs (2d6x10 MD, 5 miles)
- 11/15 Plasma/Heat minis (1d6x10 MD, 1 mile)
As a reminder...
Muppet's Ajax (240/400 M.D.C.)
Bruce Leanne's Valkyrie (270/350 M.D.C.)
Mack's Red Baroness (350/350 M.D.C.)
Psychie
Princess Psychie
A couple of quick questions. Have the infantry type Zentraedi (not in powered armor, that is) been wearing helmets? If not, what is your ruling about making an aimed shot for the vulnerable head, besides the 'must roll a natural 12 or better on the die' that Palladium has? If you don't want that here, I understand.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
1. Yes, the grunts wear helmets (and most of those in the aerospace bay had time to grab them), but the technical Zeki in the bay did not have helmets and only light body armor. Regardless of species, a grunt without his or her"brain bucket" is either unlucky or truly stupid. =)
2. See Robotech: Shadow Chronicles, page 160 if you have it? Top-left of that page? If you don't have it, I'll write it up when Real Life allows. Called shots in 2nd Edition Robotech don't work using "Natural" rolls. Oh, and there is one change I keep forgetting to put into "Shop Talk" - Called shots do not count as two of your character's melee actions/attacks. Action Points apply. More on this later.
Psychie, you are asking some good questions here that everyone can benefit from and I like that! When you have more, ask away! =)
2. See Robotech: Shadow Chronicles, page 160 if you have it? Top-left of that page? If you don't have it, I'll write it up when Real Life allows. Called shots in 2nd Edition Robotech don't work using "Natural" rolls. Oh, and there is one change I keep forgetting to put into "Shop Talk" - Called shots do not count as two of your character's melee actions/attacks. Action Points apply. More on this later.
Psychie, you are asking some good questions here that everyone can benefit from and I like that! When you have more, ask away! =)
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Hm. That is another change from 1st to 2nd edition that I missed. I wonder if it is the same in the Rifts Ultimate Edition? I'll have to check.
EDIT. Yes, its the same there, too. With the addition of the line of being able to make an Aimed Called Shot for an additional +2 to hit with a penalty of costing 3 melee actions. So much for me going with my old rule knowledge.
EDIT. Yes, its the same there, too. With the addition of the line of being able to make an Aimed Called Shot for an additional +2 to hit with a penalty of costing 3 melee actions. So much for me going with my old rule knowledge.
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Psychie
Princess Psychie
So, a quick check on the Called Shot rules show that it only works with a single shot, not with burst fire. Does the pulse weapon of the Ajax and the GU-11 gun pod count as single shots or as bursts?
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Heya guy and gals! Time for some Shop Talk. The subject? Called shots.
First, let's tackle Psychie's latest question:
So... I feel Robotech: Shadow Chronicles screws the pooch when it comes to whether or not burst-capable weapons can perform called shots. On page 160, under the very definition of Called Shot, the rules state, "Note: A "Called Shot" can only be tried with a single "sniper-style" shot, not a burst or when shooting wild."
But right below this under "Bursts and Rapid-Fire Pulse" it states, "It counts as one melee attack and suffers no penalty to strike except on an Aimed or Called Shot, in which case any strike bonus is reduced by half (round down)." (Italics mine)
What the heck, right? Which is it, Palladium?
My call? I like that idea of allowing burst-capable weapons to make Called Shots at half-strike bonus (round down). What is stopping someone from taking a SAW and going to town on a hard-to-hit radio antenna? Sooner or later, you're likely to nail the damn thing, but a marksman or sniper will do a better job while using less time and ammunition. Sure, it might take the SAW-shooter 50 rounds to do what the sniper can do with 1, but I'm O.K. with the SAW-shooter trying. What do you think, folks?
Now for the called shot rant. In short, I am not satisfied with either Palladium Called Shot system. My solution is in the second-to-last spoiler.
1st Edition includes the following (disclaimer: I'm going from memory):
My problems with 1st Edition are this: The required natural roll of x or higher is a problem. You mean to tell me a 1st level Dunkin Donuts clerk with pistol proficiency and a 15th level SEAL sniper have equal chances to hit until someone rolls above that required natural d20 roll? Nonsense.
Also, if you're going to hit the main body anyway if you miss the called shot, why not make every shot a called shot (preferably to the head)? What have you got to lose?
2nd Edition includes the following:
While perfectly realistic, I feel two actions per attempt is a bit steep. In Real Life, I enjoy pistol shooting. Yes, most of the time it takes me that extra moment to do everything necessary to put that round right where I want it, but people with more experience don't seem to need that time. As far as I can tell, once an expert marksman gets that "sweet spot" (that unity of person and pistol), they often can repeatedly put all their next rounds right on the target. The math is there - all they have to do is just repeat what they're doing. Unless something changes in the math (wind, having to reload, etc.), every following round after the first hit strikes the target (if anyone is interested, I can provide a video to help you see what I mean).
In other words, it doesn't take experienced shooters two actions to make called shots. Furthermore, I don't like how it slows the game down.
So... I recommend the following (a mix of both editions):
A note on Action Points and natural rolls.
Friends, what do you think?
First, let's tackle Psychie's latest question:
So... I feel Robotech: Shadow Chronicles screws the pooch when it comes to whether or not burst-capable weapons can perform called shots. On page 160, under the very definition of Called Shot, the rules state, "Note: A "Called Shot" can only be tried with a single "sniper-style" shot, not a burst or when shooting wild."
But right below this under "Bursts and Rapid-Fire Pulse" it states, "It counts as one melee attack and suffers no penalty to strike except on an Aimed or Called Shot, in which case any strike bonus is reduced by half (round down)." (Italics mine)
What the heck, right? Which is it, Palladium?
My call? I like that idea of allowing burst-capable weapons to make Called Shots at half-strike bonus (round down). What is stopping someone from taking a SAW and going to town on a hard-to-hit radio antenna? Sooner or later, you're likely to nail the damn thing, but a marksman or sniper will do a better job while using less time and ammunition. Sure, it might take the SAW-shooter 50 rounds to do what the sniper can do with 1, but I'm O.K. with the SAW-shooter trying. What do you think, folks?
* * *
Now for the called shot rant. In short, I am not satisfied with either Palladium Called Shot system. My solution is in the second-to-last spoiler.
1st Edition includes the following (disclaimer: I'm going from memory):
1. A natural roll is required on the die (12 or greater).
2. There is a negative to the strike roll after this natural roll succeeds (-3 or greater).
3. Takes one action to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target but the target fails to defend, the target still gets hit in the main body.
2. There is a negative to the strike roll after this natural roll succeeds (-3 or greater).
3. Takes one action to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target but the target fails to defend, the target still gets hit in the main body.
My problems with 1st Edition are this: The required natural roll of x or higher is a problem. You mean to tell me a 1st level Dunkin Donuts clerk with pistol proficiency and a 15th level SEAL sniper have equal chances to hit until someone rolls above that required natural d20 roll? Nonsense.
Also, if you're going to hit the main body anyway if you miss the called shot, why not make every shot a called shot (preferably to the head)? What have you got to lose?
2nd Edition includes the following:
1. No natural roll on the die required to attempt.
2. There is a negative to the Strike roll (usually -4 to -11).
3. Takes two actions to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target, it misses completely.
2. There is a negative to the Strike roll (usually -4 to -11).
3. Takes two actions to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target, it misses completely.
While perfectly realistic, I feel two actions per attempt is a bit steep. In Real Life, I enjoy pistol shooting. Yes, most of the time it takes me that extra moment to do everything necessary to put that round right where I want it, but people with more experience don't seem to need that time. As far as I can tell, once an expert marksman gets that "sweet spot" (that unity of person and pistol), they often can repeatedly put all their next rounds right on the target. The math is there - all they have to do is just repeat what they're doing. Unless something changes in the math (wind, having to reload, etc.), every following round after the first hit strikes the target (if anyone is interested, I can provide a video to help you see what I mean).
In other words, it doesn't take experienced shooters two actions to make called shots. Furthermore, I don't like how it slows the game down.
So... I recommend the following (a mix of both editions):
1. No natural roll on the die required to attempt.
2. There is a negative to the Strike roll (usually -4 to -11).
3. Takes one action to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target, it misses completely.
7. Burst-only weapons may make called shot attempts at half their usual strike bonus (rounding down).
2. There is a negative to the Strike roll (usually -4 to -11).
3. Takes one action to attempt.
4. Requires the character to have weapon proficiency.
5. PC must declare the action.
6. If the shot misses the intended target, it misses completely.
7. Burst-only weapons may make called shot attempts at half their usual strike bonus (rounding down).
A note on Action Points and natural rolls.
During the years I GMed our Rifts tabletop games, I made a House Rule where Action Points would add to a PC's natural roll. That d6 would count towards the 12 or higher (or 15 or whatever target number). Sometimes this made all the difference. While I agree that natural rolls are exciting, they are completely a matter of luck, and that screws people who regularly have lousy luck on the dice.
Friends, what do you think?
Psychie
Princess Psychie
If I understand this correctly, if I were to roll a natural 15 on the dice and the AP bumps it up by 5 to make it a 20, that makes it a Critical Strike, and subject to the bonuses with that? Sweet! Especially with the various martial art techniques that expand the Crit range beyond 20.
For the rest of it, I follow your line of logic pretty well. It makes sense that someone that has trained in the use of a weapon for a while will be able to snap off a Aimed Shot with much more ease than a lay person that can barely hit the target! For my part, I approve of this fix.
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Yes, you see that tabletop rule correctly. I don't use that rule here on RP Nation hence its absence from Shop Talk.
Keep in mind it worked both ways - bad guys got it too (those few that got action points, that is, but those that did typically knew how to make best of them). When it worked against the PCs, it was just as devastating. A double-edged sword, you might say.
Keep in mind it worked both ways - bad guys got it too (those few that got action points, that is, but those that did typically knew how to make best of them). When it worked against the PCs, it was just as devastating. A double-edged sword, you might say.
Psychie
Princess Psychie
Ah, I see. I understand. It is like in one Champions game where one player tried to do head shots for the insta kill. Things went fine for a while until the bad guys started doing it to us. Then it wasn't so fine anymore.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
All of this has gotten me wanting to go through my books again to make sure that there aren't any other rule changes that I am not using from 2e that I have just been using the 1e stuff for, like the Called Shot thing costing two actions.
Dannigan, your changes and the reasons behind them are well thought out, and I see no reason why that they shouldn't be implemented in the game.
Dannigan, your changes and the reasons behind them are well thought out, and I see no reason why that they shouldn't be implemented in the game.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Did you guys hear that the actor R. Lee Earmy from 'Full Metal Jacket' died today? Apparently it was from complications of pneumonia. 
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Yes. This. =)
Game balance is a tricky thing. It's why I carefully consider anything I put into any game I host. If you're interested, I can tell you about the time during a White Wolf game where my character did 20 (twenty!) points of Aggravated damage to a boss baddie because the Storyteller had absolutely no desire to work on game balance. Though I didn't do it to embarrass him, I knew it was coming and the look on his face when I rolled those dice was priceless...
* * *
Re: R. Lee "Gunny" Ermey. Yes, I just read about it seconds ago! I'm sad but I'm smiling (and boy is that a good photograph of him on the link!). From everything I've read and videos I've seen on him over the years, Ermey was just one hell of a guy. It's my understanding that during the filming of Full Metal Jacket, the screenwriter(s) had their lines ready for him, like everyone, but then Ermey just came in and started ad-libbing from his own U.S.M.C. drill instructor days. The filmmakers liked it so much they threw out their own script and gave him free rein to act as he would. That's damn fine acting! =)
Ermey would show up to U.S.M.C. graduations and re-enact his "gunny" character right there for the graduates. He had 'em all laughing and scared at the same time! When he wasn't doing the gunny sergeant thing, he did gun safety commercials like no other. Ermey's got lots of historical and military-related videos on YouTube, too from his shows (like "Lock n' Load"). He seemed down to earth, practical, and straight up. He'll be missed.
* * *
Re: Palladium Rules. Sherwood, I do just that from time to time just to keep it all fresh in my head. If Palladium has suffered from one thing, it's been their long-time need for a good editor. Book after book, I can point out mistakes that could have been easily corrected had someone provided a careful eye and the time. Just like the whole Called Shot roadblock, some rules, some items, vehicles, etc. just about require a Games Master to make a call on some contradiction or another as its uncertain and confusing as to what Palladium's own rules are.
As much as I love Palladium for their creativity, I find this sort of thing sloppy. It remains my biggest nitpick with them for all the years I've been playing Palladium games. I mean, if you're putting out a rough draft of a book, can you please take an hour or three and go through it line by line for accuracy? If not for your players' sake, then at least for your company's long-standing reputation?
I will be quite surprised if the next company that puts out a Robotech RPG (if there is one) makes the same mistake.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
I almost choked on my soda when I read that. Thank you, dear Dannigan, for that laugh!
Purr
Kaerri's Man. =)
Heya friends!
I will try to put a post in here either today or tomorrow. In the meantime, stay healthy!
I will try to put a post in here either today or tomorrow. In the meantime, stay healthy!
Kaerri
Dannigan's Lady
Catching up rather late I'm afraid, and then I posted without realizing there were more posts beyond what I could see. >.>
But I guess we're not going with the previous plan of Mario being carried by Elinor until we reach the tank? That seems to have been discarded without even discussion, now that the door's open.
But I guess we're not going with the previous plan of Mario being carried by Elinor until we reach the tank? That seems to have been discarded without even discussion, now that the door's open.