Advice/Help Dungeons and Dragons: An Evil Character in a Good Campaign

[Coyote Hart]

Hi all.
The title of this thread explains everything, but I feel the need to elaborate.
My school has a dungeons and dragons club. I currently play in there. Next year, I want to make another character, this time, I wanted it to be a lawful evil character.
Unfortunately, the group I am in play Good aligned characters. My DM insists on me saying why and how the other people in the campaign don't kick my character out because of conflicting views. Anyone have any ideas?

Additionally, I am presented with a dilemma. I want to play as a Feral Tiefling, but also as Human (solely for the bonus feat). Which one would be more beneficial?

 

[White Masquerade]

More info is needed. Is there a certain reason the good group is formed? Is your character a powerful asset or just another regular person? What is the state of the world? Things like that would figure just how a Lawful Neutral has joined good aligned characters.

 

[Coyote Hart]

More info is needed. Is there a certain reason the good group is formed? Is your character a powerful asset or just another regular person? What is the state of the world? Things like that would figure just how a Lawful Neutral has joined good aligned characters.

I meant Lawful Evil, but meh.

First answer, there isn't really a reason for the good group to form.
My character will just be a regular person
Like I said, I wanted to use my character for next year, so I have no idea what the world is going to be. Stable-ish I assume.

 

[White Masquerade]

I meant Lawful Evil, but meh.

First answer, there isn't really a reason for the good group to form.
My character will just be a regular person
Like I said, I wanted to use my character for next year, so I have no idea what the world is going to be. Stable-ish I assume.

Yeah, sorry. I was distracted when typing. Lawful Evil! Okay. With that I can't help you much but you can try:

• They don't know your character is evil; just lawful.
• Your character is fulfilling a promise to a dying (important person) to try and be a good person.
• They are a young trainee for one of the good characters. As they try to "correct" them, they slowly realize your character has evil tendencies.

 

[Coyote Hart]

Yeah, sorry. I was distracted when typing. Lawful Evil! Okay. With that I can't help you much but you can try:

• They don't know your character is evil; just lawful.
• Your character is fulfilling a promise to a dying (important person) to try and be a good person.
• They are a young trainee for one of the good characters. As they try to "correct" them, they slowly realize your character has evil tendencies.

You know, the first option seems quite appealing. Thank you!

 

[Umbrie]

evil characters can work in a good party if you make the villain an even greater evil that motivates the Evil PC to work alongside good characters because even chaotic evil characters can have morals they grew up with, even if they make up BS about some other reason to hide the fact they truly wish to do the right thing.

i played a chaotic evil wood elf poacher with a stolen horse as an animal companion in a good aligned party. the paladin kept trying to get her arrested because he had a habit of casting detect evil. though the only evil things she did were rather darwinistic like mercy killing or things done to survive like poaching. because she grew up taking what she needed and occasionally hunting for the sporty thrill of the chase.

the paladin came from a local city state that was being terrorized by an evil lich king that was using his undead minions to enforce and punish people like they were cattle if they messed up. and even though the paladin wanted to defeat the lich king, he wanted to liberate his people from oppression. the huntress bleeding rain was totally of the mindset that slavery is wrong and that one has to work outside the law and do cruel things for good reasons, but her greatest cover lie was that she wanted the lich kings broken phylactery as a trophy.

this chaotic evil character who was a sadistic poacher that hunted for sport, was actually more motivated to do good than the lawful good paladin boyscout. i mean, she had perfectly righteous reasons, but she covered them up with secondary selfish reasons. truth is, she hated slavery, and she hated oppression, because the local wood elf tribes were oppressed. so despite being a sadistic poacher who did some vladimir tepes type displays for intimidation factor to demoralize the enemy with the least losses and deliberately prolonging her chase of intelligent undead to get more thrill when she got her climax. she still did the right thing. she just did it in a pragmatic but efficient manner the paladin disliked. she confessed her hatred of slavery at the end of the campaign, and explained, that terror with the intent to demoralize your enemies can greatly minimize the number of wasted lives.

the paladin eventually learned to see her wisdom as truth because it was working,



but either way, the best way to justify an evil character in a mostly good party is to go for a heroic evil character motivated by the same goal or by goals that coincide with or are dependent on the success of the heroes. like a bigger villain they both need to take down, or something like that.

 

[Beckoncall]

The first idea that you find intriguing will last until the first time somebody casts detect evil.

My questions are -- why do YOU want to be an evil character? What do you see doing as evil that might not go over well in this group of players? If we can anticipate the conflicts we can explore how they may dramatically enhance the story, not sow chaos.

I'll also throw in that if your GM doesn't want an evil player and he's asking you to sell him -- your SECOND if not FIRST goal is to come up with a way that the evil character doesn't make his job harder.

Here are some ideas I have:

1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The big bad guy or a place or places the party needs to get through can ONLY be done so with a character of your specific characteristics... like ancient ruins that recognize your demonic heritage, but if they get 30' outside of it special wards will blast them to ash. You may have to consort with demons or go to nasty places where good guys don't normally go. You give them "Street cred" in these instances... or they know that you are motivated to kill their enemy even more single-mindedly and mercilessly than even they are.

2) The second idea I like to call "Can dobby have a sock?" -- you're a demonic thing that has been captured/tricked/geas'ed or otherwise bound to serve the party. You have specific knowledge (or special tatoos or whatever) that will enable them to make contact with, or not be killed on sight by, or naviagate through certain encounters. You can sell the GM on the idea that it gives the DM more agency and control about where he uses your "key" as a challenge or barrier to enhance the game for the party -- they've got to balance handling you with mitigating future threats. Alternatively, as a compromise for you getting what you want, the cleric or leader of the party has an item that can put you in intense pain, or cast hold monster on you, or automatically charm you -- that you DON'T want used on you. The GM makes sure that they don't abuse it, but it is basically a story vehicle that makes it harder for you to be a dick IRL (not necesarily intentionally) and IC gives your character a motivation not to step too far out of line when nobody is watching. Seizing the item for yourself will kill you... the GM will like that idea.

3) If you can't justify why the good group is good, can you justify why you want your evil character to be evil? Considering Occam's razor -- I imagine it's because you think it will be fun. Ergo, you coloring outside the lines of their "champions of good" might actually be a threat to the rest of the group having a good time. Ask the GM what the other PLAYERS think, and if any are concerned, try to make a case as to how your character could be a benefit to them. Don't put your fun before the group, and your GM has it hard enough as it is -- if you can't be sure you can avoid headaches for everyone (except paladins -- let them deal with it.) Overbearing sanctimonious tyrants -- those paladins.

4) If you work on your backstory with the GM and can make it enhance his story, it could be a great basis for the strange bedfelllows.

TLR: give the GM and players agency to keep you in line or at least complicate your existence if you get in the way of THEIR agency. The concept of an enslaved or bound infernal is not an alien concept to RPG fiction. An inexplicable lawful evil demonic operating with complete impunity in an otherwise good party however, is -- except in the numerous cases of really really bad writing and story development. I have played and had people play evil characters in good games in the past and when it's done right it's awesome (you could share this post with your GM!) -- but they need to have a hook to it that makes it interesting. Some of the best hooks are having something over the evil character's head that limits or coerces them to act against their nature, or "fish out of water" elements, like a cleric of a lawful evil god who is trying to sell a lighter version of the faith to a broader audience... ie: "You break your backs in the fields all day, your life is perpetual pain -- and you worship a SUN GOD!? Zon-Kulton is the god closest to you, he revels in your pain, and with my guidance so too can you!"

Be creative, and stress to the GM and players that you are just trying to make for a better game. If anybody seems incredulous -- consider the ENTIRE PREMISE of "Terminator 2" was basically akin to what you're asking to do. Terminators are EVIL -- but if they are bound or have specific goals which complement a good party -- you'd be a fool not to let the terminator come with you.

 

[Coyote Hart]

The first idea that you find intriguing will last until the first time somebody casts detect evil.

My questions are -- why do YOU want to be an evil character? What do you see doing as evil that might not go over well in this group of players? If we can anticipate the conflicts we can explore how they may dramatically enhance the story, not sow chaos.

I'll also throw in that if your GM doesn't want an evil player and he's asking you to sell him -- your SECOND if not FIRST goal is to come up with a way that the evil character doesn't make his job harder.

Here are some ideas I have:

1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The big bad guy or a place or places the party needs to get through can ONLY be done so with a character of your specific characteristics... like ancient ruins that recognize your demonic heritage, but if they get 30' outside of it special wards will blast them to ash. You may have to consort with demons or go to nasty places where good guys don't normally go. You give them "Street cred" in these instances... or they know that you are motivated to kill their enemy even more single-mindedly and mercilessly than even they are.

2) The second idea I like to call "Can dobby have a sock?" -- you're a demonic thing that has been captured/tricked/geas'ed or otherwise bound to serve the party. You have specific knowledge (or special tatoos or whatever) that will enable them to make contact with, or not be killed on sight by, or naviagate through certain encounters. You can sell the GM on the idea that it gives the DM more agency and control about where he uses your "key" as a challenge or barrier to enhance the game for the party -- they've got to balance handling you with mitigating future threats. Alternatively, as a compromise for you getting what you want, the cleric or leader of the party has an item that can put you in intense pain, or cast hold monster on you, or automatically charm you -- that you DON'T want used on you. The GM makes sure that they don't abuse it, but it is basically a story vehicle that makes it harder for you to be a dick IRL (not necesarily intentionally) and IC gives your character a motivation not to step too far out of line when nobody is watching. Seizing the item for yourself will kill you... the GM will like that idea.

3) If you can't justify why the good group is good, can you justify why you want your evil character to be evil? Considering Occam's razor -- I imagine it's because you think it will be fun. Ergo, you coloring outside the lines of their "champions of good" might actually be a threat to the rest of the group having a good time. Ask the GM what the other PLAYERS think, and if any are concerned, try to make a case as to how your character could be a benefit to them. Don't put your fun before the group, and your GM has it hard enough as it is -- if you can't be sure you can avoid headaches for everyone (except paladins -- let them deal with it.) Overbearing sanctimonious tyrants -- those paladins.

4) If you work on your backstory with the GM and can make it enhance his story, it could be a great basis for the strange bedfelllows.

TLR: give the GM and players agency to keep you in line or at least complicate your existence if you get in the way of THEIR agency. The concept of an enslaved or bound infernal is not an alien concept to RPG fiction. An inexplicable lawful evil demonic operating with complete impunity in an otherwise good party however, is -- except in the numerous cases of really really bad writing and story development. I have played and had people play evil characters in good games in the past and when it's done right it's awesome (you could share this post with your GM!) -- but they need to have a hook to it that makes it interesting. Some of the best hooks are having something over the evil character's head that limits or coerces them to act against their nature, or "fish out of water" elements, like a cleric of a lawful evil god who is trying to sell a lighter version of the faith to a broader audience... ie: "You break your backs in the fields all day, your life is perpetual pain -- and you worship a SUN GOD!? Zon-Kulton is the god closest to you, he revels in your pain, and with my guidance so too can you!"

Be creative, and stress to the GM and players that you are just trying to make for a better game. If anybody seems incredulous -- consider the ENTIRE PREMISE of "Terminator 2" was basically akin to what you're asking to do. Terminators are EVIL -- but if they are bound or have specific goals which complement a good party -- you'd be a fool not to let the terminator come with you.

I thank you for the advice.
I did notice that even though my group is full of good/neutral characters (which the neutral characters supposedly lean towards good), there isn't actually any sign that they are good. All the conflicts my group has run into (Other than when we were trying to buy horses and the shopkeeper thought we wanted horse meat) have ended violently and with someone dying in a gruesome way (Neither lawful nor good).
I was thinking that my character could be sadistic and merciful at the same time, and that would fit quite well with the group... would that work?

 

[Beckoncall]

Again, ask your group. It doesn't matter if the good guys are good guys, hell - very few people have the self-awareness to REALIZE they're the bad guys out in the world.

My advice is to not rationalize what might be okay, but instead to take this information you've been so generously provided and talk with your gm and party!

 

[Coyote Hart]

Again, ask your group. It doesn't matter if the good guys are good guys, hell - very few people have the self-awareness to REALIZE they're the bad guys out in the world.

My advice is to not rationalize what might be okay, but instead to take this information you've been so generously provided and talk with your gm and party!

Thanks again for your help. I know it'll come in handy

 

[Beckoncall]

I hope you get what you want. Like I said, as a GM I've said yes and no to this question... all your GM likely cares about is whether it will enhance or derail the story.

 

[Umbrie]

in Games like Dungeons and Dragons. you generally only have one Alignment for player characters. that alignment is Homicidal Transient because most D&D parties are in the adventuring trade because they get to kill sentient beings and loot thier valuables. in other words, regardless of the in character motives. the player behind the character is usually motivated by power. that power is rewarded in the form of Experience Points and Loot. loot is often sold to purchase better equipment, and with better equipment, things die faster. leading to a perpetual gear treadmill that requires constant murder to sustain, until the point you have nothing relevant to kill.

 

[Umbrie]

Generally, D&D characters will continue their Advancement until the point they can commit frequent Deicide or At Least they will try to. when you are killing Demon Princes, Archfey and Dragons. you have commited Deicide, for most of those beings are powerful enough to be considered Deities. all 3 can support Clerics and Warlocks.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Hi all.
The title of this thread explains everything, but I feel the need to elaborate.
My school has a dungeons and dragons club. I currently play in there. Next year, I want to make another character, this time, I wanted it to be a lawful evil character.
Unfortunately, the group I am in play Good aligned characters. My DM insists on me saying why and how the other people in the campaign don't kick my character out because of conflicting views. Anyone have any ideas?

Additionally, I am presented with a dilemma. I want to play as a Feral Tiefling, but also as Human (solely for the bonus feat). Which one would be more beneficial?

That's a huge no for me. While not every rp or group can accommodate everyone, kicking someone for going against the herd is a no no. You're better off finding a new group to play D&D with.

But if this is like yer world and they're they're besties, you should try harder to get what you want. If they're really worth your time, you would be able to talk to the whole group and compromise.

 

[Coyote Hart]

That's a huge no for me. While not every rp or group can accommodate everyone, kicking someone for going against the herd is a no no. You're better off finding a new group to play D&D with.

But if this is like yer world and they're they're besties, you should try harder to get what you want. If they're really worth your time, you would be able to talk to the whole group and compromise.

Woops. I think I exaggerated.
What my DM meant was my character was at risk of the other characters killing him because of conflicting moral views

 

[AlexDemille]

If I can lend my two cents. Make sure the group is fully comfortable with the situation and everyone knows where the conflict could go. Set bounties and establish why and how the character will interact with the party. A character that is evil because he's evil that goes on to alienate the party doesn't make a great experience. If there's something for people to get invest in, then everyone can work with it.

 

[Beckoncall]

So how did this turn out?

 

[Coyote Hart]

So how did this turn out?

Perfectly! I talked with my DM and we agreed that next year I can use my lawful evil paladin (I know, ironic).