Combat system for magical girls?

[Quincunx]

Hello all,

In the works, I have a sandbox-y RP I'm making about magical girls that will probably involve PvP combat. This could be a relatively large project, and I'm not sure I'm trustful enough to say to my future players, "When you have a fight with another magical girl, talk it out OOC to see who wins."

I mention magical girls because their combat works a little differently than, say, medieval high fantasy: their powers center around a particular element rather than skills like "swords" and "archery", and preferably, they would have their combat moves divided into powers they can use like "gravity manipulation"; melee attacks; and finishers like "Orbital Wave".

What I'm looking for is a rules-light system that I could use for combat between magical girls. By rules-light, I mean that I want to be able to explain it in a single (large or small) post rather than a 50-page document. It would ideally only be used for PvP and maybe PvE combat, not solving non-combat problems, but character growth mechanics would be great.

Can this be done? (Answers like "use rock paper scissors" or "be up front that you need mature players and don't have a system" are okay, as is "here's the combat system I think will work best".)

 

[Umbrie]

there is a Madoka themed PVE magical Girl RPG called Magical Burst. it uses a 2d6+modifiers system for everything but damage. Ranged attacks deal 1d6, melee deals 1d6+2. you also have perks that do cool things.

 

[Quincunx]

there is a Madoka themed PVE magical Girl RPG called Magical Burst. it uses a 2d6+modifiers system for everything but damage. Ranged attacks deal 1d6, melee deals 1d6+2. you also have perks that do cool things.

Thank you, Umbrie. I'm familiar with Magical Burst's fourth draft and somewhat familiar with the fifth, but I'm also concerned that it might not be light enough on rules considering all the perks. Also, if I remember correctly, there is a zones/range system that I worry could cause confusion. Still, it's a worthy candidate for a system since it's made specifically for magical girls.

I was also considering reskinning one of my favorites (FATE Core or Apocalypse World), but they would require a lot of adaptation.

 

[Umbrie]

Thank you, Umbrie. I'm familiar with Magical Burst's fourth draft and somewhat familiar with the fifth, but I'm also concerned that it might not be light enough on rules considering all the perks. Also, if I remember correctly, there is a zones/range system that I worry could cause confusion. Still, it's a worthy candidate for a system since it's made specifically for magical girls.

I was also considering reskinning one of my favorites (FATE Core or Apocalypse World), but they would require a lot of adaptation.

Most Roleplayers should understand magical burst. it isn't much more complicated than Apocalypse World, Savage Worlds or Fate. fairly rules light. the only complication comes from players trying to game the system for the best consistent advantage.

 

[Idea]

The problem here is that the more system-based your rules are, the less things will make sense within any particular context, yet the more the system is based on giving player's agency, the more likely it will be that players abuse it or don't accept true defeat. I'd argue that, many times, players will want to be able to use clever tactics and have a roleplay that makes more sense IC rather than one that leaves most thing "to the dice", so to speak.

My own usual method of tackling this issue with is to start out by grounding what can be done, and then overseeing things as a GM. First, make sure what can or cannot be done is clear and concrete and balanced. Then, keep an eye on what happens to make sure it stays consistent with what makes sense to actually happen, given those values. Don't let people figure out attacks based on hunches, don't allow mystery power-ups, infinite dodging and such things.

That's just my method though, and admitedly, it's not a popular one. It's hard work for the GM and it's limiting for the players. It does have advantages, but it's not my method that I should be talking about, though I did mention it in case you happen to become curious or find it an option to consider.

In any case, if you want a simple and relatively effective system, I'd recommend a pool of stat points. This is, have each character have a series of stats, and a base set of points which you can distribute through the stats of each attack, plus their own health and mana.

Spoiler: example

A character starts with 20 points

And this is the stat sheet
Health: (how much damage your magical form can take before it breaks) (1 point- 30 health)
Magic: (how much magic you have available at the start to use on attacks) (1 point- 20 magic)

Attack-
Price: (costs more magic for each stat on this attack)
Damage: (1 point- 10 damage)
Speed:
Range:
Special effects:

etc...

Now, of course, you'd pcik whatever stats you think make sense for your roleplay.

I do want to note, and this would be important, make stats a real thing. As in, they are actually part of these magical things, in universe, that they have stats and a maximum amount of measurable damage they can take, etc...

 

[Quincunx]

The problem here is that the more system-based your rules are, the less things will make sense within any particular context, yet the more the system is based on giving player's agency, the more likely it will be that players abuse it or don't accept true defeat. I'd argue that, many times, players will want to be able to use clever tactics and have a roleplay that makes more sense IC rather than one that leaves most thing "to the dice", so to speak.

My own usual method of tackling this issue with is to start out by grounding what can be done, and then overseeing things as a GM. First, make sure what can or cannot be done is clear and concrete and balanced. Then, keep an eye on what happens to make sure it stays consistent with what makes sense to actually happen, given those values. Don't let people figure out attacks based on hunches, don't allow mystery power-ups, infinite dodging and such things.

That's just my method though, and admitedly, it's not a popular one. It's hard work for the GM and it's limiting for the players. It does have advantages, but it's not my method that I should be talking about, though I did mention it in case you happen to become curious or find it an option to consider.

In any case, if you want a simple and relatively effective system, I'd recommend a pool of stat points. This is, have each character have a series of stats, and a base set of points which you can distribute through the stats of each attack, plus their own health and mana.

Spoiler: example

A character starts with 20 points

And this is the stat sheet
Health: (how much damage your magical form can take before it breaks) (1 point- 30 health)
Magic: (how much magic you have available at the start to use on attacks) (1 point- 20 magic)

Attack-
Price: (costs more magic for each stat on this attack)
Damage: (1 point- 10 damage)
Speed:
Range:
Special effects:

etc...

Now, of course, you'd pcik whatever stats you think make sense for your roleplay.

I do want to note, and this would be important, make stats a real thing. As in, they are actually part of these magical things, in universe, that they have stats and a maximum amount of measurable damage they can take, etc...

Thank you, Idea. I really wanted to include stats so each girl could have a "specialization". However, I'm kind of fuzzy for anything beyond that: if dice are necessary, how damage is calculated, etc. Regardless, these are good to incorporate.

 

[Idea]

Thank you, Idea. I really wanted to include stats so each girl could have a "specialization". However, I'm kind of fuzzy for anything beyond that: if dice are necessary, how damage is calculated, etc. Regardless, these are good to incorporate.

No, you wouldn't need dice. The stats merely trust that the player will know how to get hit. Beyond that, they do all the work. Your real effectiveness and wit is translated into the stats you chose, as they will become more effective against certain opponents. If you get hit, you get hit in proportion to your stats, and that is taken from your health. Your health goes to zero, your power turn off. Your magic goes to zero, you can't use magic. Things like that.

 

[Quincunx]

No, you wouldn't need dice. The stats merely trust that the player will know how to get hit. Beyond that, they do all the work. Your real effectiveness and wit is translated into the stats you chose, as they will become more effective against certain opponents. If you get hit, you get hit in proportion to your stats, and that is taken from your health. Your health goes to zero, your power turn off. Your magic goes to zero, you can't use magic. Things like that.

I think I see what you're saying about the numbers. I might add dice so there's a chance element, but giving special abilities (a choice element) might be enough. Basically, I'm worried that pure numbers make results calculable and predetermined from the beginning of the battle. But there are steps I can take to go around that so they're not pure numbers

 

[Idea]

I think I see what you're saying about the numbers. I might add dice so there's a chance element, but giving special abilities (a choice element) might be enough. Basically, I'm worried that pure numbers make results calculable and predetermined from the beginning of the battle. But there are steps I can take to go around that so they're not pure numbers

Well, choosing which abilities to use and in what order, first move advantage via ambush and special effects can fix the just numbers problem

 

[Project Naiad]

Maybe check out Princess: the Hopeful?
It's a fan made set of rules for World of Darkness centered on magical girls.
The combat system is pretty complicated, but it might help you get some inspiration.
(The lore is also interesting on its own).

There's a wiki for it, it's easy to find.

 

[Quincunx]

Maybe check out Princess: the Hopeful?
It's a fan made set of rules for World of Darkness centered on magical girls.
The combat system is pretty complicated, but it might help you get some inspiration.
(The lore is also interesting on its own).

There's a wiki for it, it's easy to find.

Thank you, Project Naiad. I've actually looked at P:tH prior to posting this thread and decided it wasn't what I wanted, but as you said, it did provide some inspiration.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

and I'm not sure I'm trustful enough to say to my future players

That's actually very sad. While I'd be the one who would be against this kind of scripting in the plot, you do need ooc interaction to make an rp work. IF you can't trust them to talk it out over something like this? What more when you actually get to important parts of the actual rp? When you get to plot points, conflict and you vs me scenarios, how are you supposed to run a functional rp? If you believe your players are incapable of talking out simple stuff like this?

 

[Quincunx]

That's actually very sad. While I'd be the one who would be against this kind of scripting in the plot, you do need ooc interaction to make an rp work. IF you can't trust them to talk it out over something like this? What more when you actually get to important parts of the actual rp? When you get to plot points, conflict and you vs me scenarios, how are you supposed to run a functional rp? If you believe your players are incapable of talking out simple stuff like this?

Thanks for bringing that up. I should have phrased that differently.

Going off of fiction alone, it's not always clear who should win a battle. In system-free combat, I've seen my fair share of dirty tricks from players who are sure it's their character who should win, and I'm sure you have as well - autohitting, dodging everything, etc. I've also known players in what was originally a freeform game who actually asked for a combat system so results wouldn't have to be predetermined OOC.

My basic point is, I can trust players to talk over plot points and things like that OOC. But battle results are not always as clearly agreed upon as "this is where the story should go", and sometimes, people would simply rather they be determined by tactics and numbers than pure scripting. That's why I'm looking for a combat system - so PvP battles won't have to be determined by saying "it makes the most sense for this person to win".

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Thanks for bringing that up. I should have phrased that differently.

Going off of fiction alone, it's not always clear who should win a battle. In system-free combat, I've seen my fair share of dirty tricks from players who are sure it's their character who should win, and I'm sure you have as well - autohitting, dodging everything, etc. I've also known players in what was originally a freeform game who actually asked for a combat system so results wouldn't have to be predetermined OOC.

My basic point is, I can trust players to talk over plot points and things like that OOC. But battle results are not always as clearly agreed upon as "this is where the story should go", and sometimes, people would simply rather they be determined by tactics and numbers than pure scripting. That's why I'm looking for a combat system - so PvP battles won't have to be determined by saying "it makes the most sense for this person to win".

How about when the plot goes to, one magical girl wants to limit freedom of movement and the other believes in freedom of choice? This plot development can easily lead to a battle between both magical girls and will eventually need to be talked about in the same vien as regular plot progression. So battles aren't separate from what you might call, " This is where the story should go" scenario. I can't blame ya entirely for being wary, as pride and attachment to one's character in a rp with heavy combat can create an impasse and destroy the rp. However, you do need to be selective with your players and do more work to make sure they will abide by the decisions you make. Because even with a system, people can fight over the wording the system and still get into conflict.

But yea combat systems at their very core, do take control out of the player's hands to become an unbiased arbiter when created right. Below is a post I made in an rp interest check that went nowhere. But it might help with create a simple set of rules for purely deciding who wins or loses in a fight.

Magical Girl Raising Project Group RP

 

[Quincunx]

How about when the plot goes to, one magical girl wants to limit freedom of movement and the other believes in freedom of choice? This plot development can easily lead to a battle between both magical girls and will eventually need to be talked about in the same vien as regular plot progression. So battles aren't separate from what you might call, " This is where the story should go" scenario. I can't blame ya entirely for being wary, as pride and attachment to one's character in a rp with heavy combat can create an impasse and destroy the rp. However, you do need to be selective with your players and do more work to make sure they will abide by the decisions you make. Because even with a system, people can fight over the wording the system and still get into conflict.

But yea combat systems at their very core, do take control out of the player's hands to become an unbiased arbiter when created right. Below is a post I made in an rp interest check that went nowhere. But it might help with create a simple set of rules for purely deciding who wins or loses in a fight.

Magical Girl Raising Project Group RP

It's great that you brought up system fuel. I also appreciate what you're saying in the first part of your post about OOC interaction and being selective with players - you're right that any lasting RP needs players who can maturely talk about the outcomes of conflicts, not simply use systems for arbitration - but for the sake of not getting too far into a different discussion than I had intended, I'm going to leave it at that.

I like what you're getting at with the d6 and conditions, although I personally prefer Apocalypse World's version with 2d6 modified by a stat:
- 6 and below: failure
- 7-9: partial success/success with complications
-10 and above: full success

The main reason I prefer the 2d6 over a single dice is that 2d6 curves towards a 7-9 result, and I find partial or complicated successes most interesting to play. However, a dice with conditions is a good building block. The thread you linked seems to have good discussion in it, so I'll be looking through that to see if there's any more system fuel.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

It's great that you brought up system fuel. I also appreciate what you're saying in the first part of your post about OOC interaction and being selective with players - you're right that any lasting RP needs players who can maturely talk about the outcomes of conflicts, not simply use systems for arbitration - but for the sake of not getting too far into a different discussion than I had intended, I'm going to leave it at that.

I like what you're getting at with the d6 and conditions, although I personally prefer Apocalypse World's version with 2d6 modified by a stat:
- 6 and below: failure
- 7-9: partial success/success with complications
-10 and above: full success

The main reason I prefer the 2d6 over a single dice is that 2d6 curves towards a 7-9 result, and I find partial or complicated successes most interesting to play. However, a dice with conditions is a good building block. The thread you linked seems to have good discussion in it, so I'll be looking through that to see if there's any more system fuel.

Yea my template is by no means complicated or fancy. I could have linked fate core,but you didn't want a rulebook(it's 100 pages long).

 

[White Masquerade]

Quincunx. Whoo. Orbital Wave. I am a lover of sick moves and big finishers. I'd only say be aware that this is an RP forum. Standard dice systems aren't as effective as they would be in person. Whatever you do, keep it relatively simple.

 

[Beckoncall]

Check out Sissyfight

SiSSYFiGHT

It's an easy fun way for a number of people to clobber each other. just flavor it differently. Great system for PvP and more satisfying than Rock Paper Scissors without being much more complicated than it.