Other Ask an Atheist

[Sandertp]

 

[Lappi]

JayTee

My questions...

What is the meaning of your life?

Don't you ever get afraid of the thought that maybe there is, indeed, a God, and that your atheism can send you to hell?

What made you become an atheist? I'm willing to hear the whole story.

My meaning is pretty difficult. But out simply, I enjoy all of the life I know of, and help others when I get the chance.

Nah, I'll pass that bridge when I get to it. But if I do see a god I'll just check him out. I'll tell him "How dare you make a world where your word is in 5000 different interpretations and 50 languages. And how dare you send me to hell for being skeptical of all your claims when your only justification is that you said it, not to mention you use a media that is easily changable. How dare you claim to be all just, all caring and nearly perfect. Then send good men to hell just for being skeptical"
So, no Im not afraid. Do I hate the idea of it. Yea, but I'm never afraid of consequences.
Well I grew up in a extreamly religious family. I stayed with my stepfather over the weekend and he went to college. He took camparative religion classes and taught me skepticism, how to debate, and how to reconize dogma. I became a athiest at 9 years old, and never looked back. I was still forced to go to church till age 18. Where I mocked and debated pastors often XD.

 

[JayTee]

What is the meaning of your life?

Make myself a better person, find ways to help other people. Nothing fantastic or extraordinary, just try to do some good.

Don't you ever get afraid of the thought that maybe there is, indeed, a God, and that your atheism can send you to hell?

Not really. The christian religion is only a few thousand years old, and there were a lot of gods who were worshiped and subsequently forgotten about in hundreds of thousands years before the christian god appeared on the market to promote his own brand of divinity.

What made you become an atheist? I'm willing to hear the whole story.

Nothing, really. No grand trauma or crisis, if that's what you're assuming. I just saw the whole religion thing and felt it wasn't for me.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Do you hate God?
Or would you, if he was real?
Specifically, the Christian God.

 

[Lappi]

Do you hate God?
Or would you, if he was real?
Specifically, the Christian God.

(Ignore this if you don't want my answer)

Spoiler: My answer

Well I wouldn't hate him. But id heavily disagree and look down at him for his incosistancies, poor communication, and choices in what to do with people who simply don't believe in him. Even if they are wonderful people.
But no, without the hypothetical I would not feel anything about it

 

[Hall Kervean]

Well, I can explain the last one, and it has to do with the very base for why Jesus died on the cross.
I mean, he didn't just do it because he was bored and said "You know what God the Father, I think I'll get nailed to a tree and take the sins of the world tomorrow."
Everyone, no matter how wonderful, has some sin in their life, and anyone who has even a trace of sin in them can't get into heaven. By going to the cross, the sin is washed clean (i.e. they are no longer held by their sin), so they can enter heaven.
It isn't whether they believe or not, because yes, that would be flawed and twisted. It's that if they don't believe, their sin cannot be washed away by any other means (i.e. good will not outweigh the bad), and so they can't get into heaven. Believing is the only way to get the sin washed away. (Jesus did pray for any other way, to which there was no other answer.)

 

[JayTee]

Do you hate God?

Not really. I don't believe in god, so it's hard to hate something that I don't think exists.

Or would you, if he was real?
Specifically, the Christian God.

In the interest of complete honesty, If the christian god existed I'd be very cross with it. For an all knowing, all powerful and all loving creator being to allow and in some cases enable the suffering and torment of billions of lives over the years is completely reprehensible. There are better ways to "test" or "guide" humanity that don't involve, say, the death of children.

 

[JayTee]

Hm, I want to point out that while I harp on and on about a god allowing suffering, I'm mostly using that because it's the easiest example to point to.

Really, a bigger issue with god is that human beings are generally very good at spotting patterns, it's arguably one of out stronger traits. We generally see patterns that are consistent as "good" and patterns that are inconsistent or random as "bad"

The real kicker is though that the bible is terribly inconsistent on a lot of things, which means people with strong pattern recognition will find something "off" or "wrong" about the bible's accounts. Assuming you believe that a god had a hand in these people's creation, this means that there are vast swaths of humanity who were created to find the word of god, the thing that supposedly guarantees salvation, completely nonsensical.

Since, according to the bible, you need god in your heart to be saved, this effectively means that there are large amounts of humanity who are condemned from hell right from the start, and no amount of good deeds or efforts to make the world a better place will make up for that.

I question why any god would make a world full of people who may need saving, and whom they will want to save, and then ensure that some people will never ever be able to be saved according to the rules laid down.

It's inconsistencies like that that make me regard the whole thing as, well (no disrespect intended) pointless chicanery.

 

[Lappi]

Well, I can explain the last one, and it has to do with the very base for why Jesus died on the cross.
I mean, he didn't just do it because he was bored and said "You know what God the Father, I think I'll get nailed to a tree and take the sins of the world tomorrow."
Everyone, no matter how wonderful, has some sin in their life, and anyone who has even a trace of sin in them can't get into heaven. By going to the cross, the sin is washed clean (i.e. they are no longer held by their sin), so they can enter heaven.
It isn't whether they believe or not, because yes, that would be flawed and twisted. It's that if they don't believe, their sin cannot be washed away by any other means (i.e. good will not outweigh the bad), and so they can't get into heaven. Believing is the only way to get the sin washed away. (Jesus did pray for any other way, to which there was no other answer.)

So God instead if making another way (because if I recall Jesus is God and God's son) he sticked with his morally reprehensible way. Even though god is all powerful, knowing and wise. Because if so then he would not be. Because God made sin, and made Satan, and as a result if he is all knowing then he knew it would happen. And knowingly would do so, sentencing anyone who happens to not know of Christianity in other parts of the world or just was skeptical, or was fed wrong information, the. He would send them to a infinite plane of torture.

Also I just can't call it moral to torture someone forever for a temporary crime.

Another thing is that what if Satan wrote the Bible and influenced the people who wrote it to make god look bad, or vice versa. And would let us believe the Bible so he can use us when we die.
But that last one is a theory of me.

 

[Icerex]

This sums up everything I could say on any sort of god(s).

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

 

[Icerex]

I believe there was a moment in a Green Lantern comic where the Green Lantern wished all evil everywhere to be destroyed, and everyone died, since everyone has some evil in them.
People have free will, and to remove the option of evil is to remove free will.
It's why Adam and Eve sinned in the first place, and why 1/3rds of the angels were even given the option of falling away.
.

Ah, so there is no free will in heaven then.

 

[Lappi]

I believe there was a moment in a Green Lantern comic where the Green Lantern wished all evil everywhere to be destroyed, and everyone died, since everyone has some evil in them.
People have free will, and to remove the option of evil is to remove free will.
It's why Adam and Eve sinned in the first place, and why 1/3rds of the angels were even given the option of falling away.


Basically it's this: Do you take pity on a murderer who shows no remorse? For example, the people who ran over people on he London bridge? They show no remorse and only joy in what they did. Are you willing to show them mercy and not punish them according to their crime?
That's just it: Hell is the punishment for sinners. The wages of sin is death. Any sin.
God did not make sin. Man chose to sin and bring it into the world.
If they don't know of Christianity, I believe God has some way of letting them know of his existence. He's not malicious and giving people no way in.
It's not because they were skeptical, it's because they held onto their sin.
If they were fed wrong information, as long as they believed in the core principles then they're good. And for false teachers, it would be better a millstone hung around their neck and they be thrown into the sea.

First off, *cough* life in prison *cough* Second off, again, it's the punishment. That's the punishment sin yields.

I assure you, Satan didn't write the Bible, and he probably didn't write the Torah, either. There are theories that he had a direct hand in Islam though. Considering Mohommad was illiterate (among other things :/), someone did have to write that. But I would certainly say that if Satan was leading people away from Christianity, Islam has certainly done well for its purpose. (1.6B followers worldwide).

Yes, I am capable of feeling bad for them. To get to that point they had to be abused and brainwashed. I'm an asshole and a logician. Not a sociopath, I don't think one action should warrant a million evil actions against them. In that case who is greater. The criminal, or the judge. also life in prison still give people food, water and a chance to make money for their family. And it is technailly temporary.
And the Bible and you said that if you don't believe then you don't go. So the core principles don't matter. If they have no knowledge of it. Also beaming it into your mind is awesome. Why can't he do it for those serial killers beat as a child. Or locked in a celler with no connection to the outside world. (Theoritical kid)
Also you miss my point with the last paragraph. or you did a terrible job in disproving me, you said "I say it's not. Because I believe in it" It was more of an thought experiment than an theory I guess.
Also, man those fucking Buddhist. False teachers. Better throw em into the ocean like mobsters.

 

[Lappi]

I didn't make his head explode. I was just mugging him and he decided to fight back. So he chose for the bullet to explode his brain.

 

[Lappi]

I didn't make his head explode. I was just mugging him and he decided to fight back. So he chose for the bullet to explode his brain.

Oh yea, then I made him into a zombie and shot his kneecap till the end of time.

 

[Icerex]

Unthinking (albeit well cared for) slaves to an eternal master, while the less fortunate are tortured for all eternity.

Yep, sounds like paradise to me!

 

[Lappi]

I'm not omnipotent myself so I can't tell you the system set up there. I've not been there myself, and God's not got a lot of details on what's going on up there. But it's possible.

I asked if you do, not if you are capable of it.
But you silly goose! They still made the choice, and in the case of sin, they made that choice. The sin came with a punishment. It was hell. It doesn't matter what led to that choice, what matters is they made it, and so they are punished for it. It's how the justice system works. Would it be moral for the justice system to let a murderer go because they had a good upbringing and were pretty good in general, aside from one slip up?
Um, in this case it's definitely the judge who is greater.
It was a generalized example. Both last a while. Point taken. All the same, if you lived forever, life in prison would last forever. So is life in prison moral?

I literally just said I'm not entirely sure. There is obviously a system, but again, I don't know it off the top of my head. Besides, that is becoming less and less of an excuse as more and more people are hearing about it. So unless you actually live in South America or Africa, whatever system doesn't apply to you.
Thanks?
He can and has. Paul the Apostle is a direct example of him. They can become Christians and he will cover their sin. That doesn't mean they shouldn't serve their punishment down here; by all means they should.
Now this one is kind of unclear since there's no subject of the sentence. Is the serial killer, who has likely heard of Jesus, the one locked in the cellar? Since he's a serial killer, he's been in contact at some point, and probably heard of Jesus. Who's the person locked in the cellar? That shapes my answer.

I didn't disprove it, I realize that. I just can't really see it. All the same, that was a nice thought experiment, hats off.

Ehhh kind of. It's actually more referring to people teaching misleading things about the Lord. Such as cults. Or the TV pastors that say you're either a demon spawn from hell itself or willing to donate your life savings to their voluntary fund.
Since the members of other religions are themselves misled, though they're teaching false things, they're not necessarily false teachers, if that makes any sense at all. They'll still go to hell, don't get me wrong, but since they're not intentionally misleading others by things such as inviting Pastor Dollars McEarnsalot to the stage, they're not getting that applied to them.

I do feel for everyone involved. Even the killers. But if someone's immortal than it is Immoral. But we're not. but in this case you say "Is life in prison moral if you have infinite life!" Well of course not. Because we don't. also about the sin=punishment. Well yes. But if a god claims to all just and good. Well that is not all just, that is punishing someone infinatly for crimes without discrimination. Wether you steal from someone or murder 6 million people.
If thats moral then well I'm confused.

And honestly how is someone so sure of their punishment make all their words so easy to confuse and badly translated. And make it easy to manipulate

I just refuse to think a god that claims all he does. Will torture anyone who disagrees. How weak willed must you be for someone who you made that disagrees with you to just send them to the gulag. It's like stalin or Hitler. Disagree with him. Maybe hurt his ego. Off to the gulag. Exept you don't die there.

 

[Lappi]

Unthinking (albeit well cared for) slaves to an eternal master, while the less fortunate are tortured for all eternity.

Yep, sounds like paradise to me!

I just put it as "Kissing ass is fun with the right attitude and beliefs" XD

 

[Kazu]

Huh, interesting thread so far. It's nice to see a civil discussion on such prickly topics.
Anyways, thought I might ask a few questions too.

How long did it take you to fully and completely decide that you were an atheist? Did you have religious family or friends that had brought you to believe in what you did now?

Does the thought of death scare you? I've been told by some more rude and brash people that believing in a god and an afterlife is only a "coping mechanism". Although I won't get into that, I always find it interesting how different people's opinion on the subject of death and what comes after it are.

And, last but not least...
Waffles or pancakes?

 

[JayTee]

How long did it take you to fully and completely decide that you were an atheist? Did you have religious family or friends that had brought you to believe in what you did now?

I guess I never really "decided" I was an atheist. Religion made it's case at a few points in my life, and each time I saw too many flaws or inconsistencies for me to be able to take it seriously.

Does the thought of death scare you? I've been told by some more rude and brash people that believing in a god and an afterlife is only a "coping mechanism". Although I won't get into that, I always find it interesting how different people's opinion on the subject of death and what comes after it are.

I'll be honest, I'm one of those people who think's that it's a coping mechanism. That said, it's an understandable coping mechanism. The idea that there is no point to the universe, that there is no great beyond, can understandably cause some existential dread. I don't blame people for wanting something better or a greater meaning, but I've learned to cope with the idea that there isn't any and resolved to do what I can to make things better for anyone who comes after me.

And, last but not least...
Waffles or pancakes?

Pancakes.

Fite me, bruh!

 

[Kazu]

I guess I never really "decided" I was an atheist. Religion made it's case at a few points in my life, and each time I saw too many flaws or inconsistencies for me to be able to take it seriously.

Ahh, okay!

I'll be honest, I'm one of those people who think's that it's a coping mechanism. That said, it's an understandable coping mechanism. The idea that there is no point to the universe, that there is no great beyond, can understandably cause some existential dread. I don't blame people for wanting something better or a greater meaning, but I've learned to cope with the idea that there isn't any and resolved to do what I can to make things better for anyone who comes after me.

My apologies, I think I may have gotten the wrong message when I said "more rude and brash people". It isn't that I meant that the people who believe it are rude, but I mean the way it was told to me was:
"I believe in God and in an afterlif-"
"That's just a coping mechanism."
But thank you for replying! Interesting stuff to think about for late nights of deep thinking. xD

Pancakes.

Fite me, bruh!

ONE ON ONE FITE ME IRL
YOU ARE A WAFFLE TRAITORRR!

 

[JayTee]

My apologies, I think I may have gotten the wrong message when I said "more rude and brash people". It isn't that I meant that the people who believe it are rude, but I mean the way it was told to me was:
"I believe in God and in an afterlif-"
"That's just a coping mechanism."
But thank you for replying! Interesting stuff to think about for late nights of deep thinking. xD

Naw it's cool. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of atheists kinda feel harassed by theists constantly telling them they're bad people without religion, so you get some kneejerk pushback whenever the subject comes up. I try to avoid that if possible.

ONE ON ONE FITE ME IRL
YOU ARE A WAFFLE TRAITORRR!

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Ihop, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Wafflehouse, and I have over 300 confirmed cakes. I am trained in gorilla baking and I’m the top chef in the entire Ihops franchise. You are nothing to me but just another target. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of line cooks across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your kitchen. You’re fucking gunna be fed, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can feed you you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my kitchen essentials. Not only am I extensively trained in baking, but I have access to the entire arsenal of Ihop and I will use it to its full extent to feed you delicious pankackes, you little shit. If only you could have known what tasty, buttery goodness your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have asked for more. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit syrup all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking fed, kiddo.

 

[Count Gensokyo]

Really, another one of these things?

 

[zachie mel]

whats an athiest

 

[Icerex]

whats an athiest

Someone who is unconvinced of the god claim.

 

[zachie mel]

oh no does that mean im an atheist because i dont believe in god?