RpNation

But again...
1. That drive you speak of exists by means of needing something. Lacking something. If you already have that something, then there is no need to work towards something. There's no need for improvement. Because it's already the best possible state. Sure, the starts may no longer have any mystery to them, but mayhaps that feeling is uneeded compared to the sheer wonder and awe of the splender of reality.

2. Advancement implies time. Progress implies time. Boredom, stagnation imply time. Remove time from the equation and they simply don't exist or need to.

See, the basic problem here that's causing us to go in circles is that you're assuming that the desire to progress, improve, evolve- is something so inherent that the needs that create that desire are irrelevant to whether the desire exists. That even if every single part of your being is completely satisfied, that one part will always act as if something is missing. Supposedly, for our world, that might be debatable

But in a perfect world? Not in the slightest. In a perfect world, such a desire would definitely only exist if you were missing something- in other words it wouldn't exist at all.

(God I hate the word limit)

Then our lives themselves would be meaningless, only having value on the things we have seen or done. Wheres the sense of accomplishment, of self worth if in a perfect world efforts are worthless by nature. Living in a world of where perfection becomes the norm of which the word itself is subjective to different interpretation it is just that, normal. Perfection cant exist without the contrast of hell.

Sense of accomplishment? Unneeded. Again, perfection would already bring full realization, perfect satisfaction- it wouldn't be a perfect world otherwise. If a contrasting hell is required for that, then a contrasting hell would exist. Simple as that.

Also, don't play this "subjective" card. It doesn't defend your point- it makes your words meaningless.

If the very meaning of the word is subjective, then there is literally nothing that can be said about it.

Can you get perfect satisfaction if theres no effort involved? That nothing you do was actually dangerous, or hard? Would climbing mt Everest be awe inspiring if you could simply walk there and never get tired, sore or hungry, afraid of death or freezing wind? No, because there was never any danger, never any threat. Satisfaction comes from being rewarded for ones actions or your wishes fulfilled.

If so, then those are some pretty hollow wishes. Nothing would be worth having pride in, why if by in a perfect world I want I get? If in a perfect world I could do anything I wanted then eventually would I not get bored? Does immortality if we exclude time not deaden the joys of life? Why have value in it if you never die? Lifes precious because you only get one shot.

Yes, because OUR world is imperfect. What you propose is a hypothetical perfect world. In our world, the only way to be satisfied is to get the momentary sensation of fulfilled via accomplishment, before it dawns on you that now you need more. But in a perfect world, there is no "more" to need. Just complete satisfaction. I know I'm repeating myself, but if that wasn´t the case, then it wouldn't be a perfect world.

I think that's where our disparity comes from, im talking about if our world was suddenly perfect. A Giver situation if you would. Im not speaking of an afterlife or something similar. I am talking about the present. Even if that was the case I think I would fall for I cannot imagine me living in a world where I didn't dream of a better one. Its my drive and reason for living, to leave my sisters a better world.

In a perfect world boredom does not exists. Time will only exist if it doesn't hinder perfection.

Still, I do agree. A perfect world just handed out to us would not be as valuable. But that in itself is a paradox- hence a perfect world WOULD have to be earned.

I fight so they don't have to, I find satisfaction in my sacrifice so they and their children will live in a better world.

Well, my arguments still apply. The problem I see here is that what you are talking about is not a perfect world, but a near perfect one. It's the way the shallow would think of a perfect world. Not that I am calling you shallow of course, but I am simply mentioning it because it is often the case that one will bring up "if the world was perfect, then this thing that happened would not have happened" -

- when in truth, the only thing we know about a perfect world is that it would be perfect.

I suppose I simply cannot wrap my head around the ideal of a perfect world in your context. I find doing things fun because of boredom, I take pleasure in eating a good meal because I have had days where I go without. I love looking out from the boat to a sunset and then the starry night sky because each day is beautiful and you might not get tomorrow. I suppose the guarantee so to speak of living is hard for me.

I can agree on that.

Well, I wouldn't expect you to. It's not an idea I understand myself fully. I believe in a God that far surpasses me in every regard, a perfection I cannot achieve but by communion with said being. Mind you, the concept of perfection I've been discussion has nothing to do with my religious beliefs. But the religious beliefs I do hold are strengthened by that understanding.

Of course, your outlook is a wonderful one, to be admired as well. To be able to appreciate life is somehting we all should aspire to. I believe we should appreciate our world even with it's flaws, and I believe we should continue to chase perfection. Whether it be because we believe it is where we want to be- or just to push foward with that purpose you spoke of.

In any case, I believe this was spammy enough, so I'll take my leave then. Thank you for the insightful discussion, I hope you have a great day