Experiences I don't train new roleplayers.

I guess this is a way to start discussion, and a way to get some feelings off my chest. It's funny, cause I try to avoid controversy, and this is gonna generate a ton, I'm sure.

So what do I mean about the phrase "I don't train new roleplayers"? Well, I'll tell you.

When I say train, I mean that I don't like to help newbies when they first start out. They fall back on tropes that I don't like. They make Mary Sues. I get that every newbie needs a trainer, I had a few.

But I don't like to sit and explain to newbies why their character can't have those powers, or why they can't use that trope. It just becomes emotionally and physically exhausting. I don't like to receive one liners and drive the entire plot. I'm not that patient, and I'm not good at explaining why. Which is why I rarely RP with people who only just made accounts, or people whom I can tell aren't experienced.

I don't want to invest my free time into something emotionally exhausting and frustrating. I'm sorry to those of you that help them, but I don't. I appreciate you guys, cause I needed you when I started out, but I can't be you.

So, how do you guys feel about this? Do you train the new guys, or do you stay far away?

It depends on confidence and ability to communicate.

I don’t care if your characters are one note or I have to do a lot of the work for the setting.

As long as my partner seems confident enough to tell me what they want, what they can and can’t do, and just bring some ideas to the table.

I don’t need long paragraphs, as long as I can read them and you give me some kind of action to build on in my response.

middleagedgeek said:

It depends on confidence and ability to communicate.

I don’t care if your characters are one note or I have to do a lot of the work for the setting.

As long as my partner seems confident enough to tell me what they want, what they can and can’t do, and just bring some ideas to the table.

I don’t need long paragraphs, as long as I can read them and you give me some kind of action to build on in my response.

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I suppose that would work for me, but I've never had someone like that. The only experience I've gotten is zero OOC chatter, followed by responses that get shorter and shorter.

Not to say that it couldn't happen, but I'd like believe that you're much more patient than me.

I think that is just an insecurity thing. I have met folks who were new to a specific style or roleplaying in general but if you explain things they are happy to jump in.

I have also met people who have been roleplaying for years who can’t talk to me for five posts because my bluntness hurts their feelings.


So if we are talking insecure players specifically than yeah I don’t even bother. I am not “nice” enough to avoid saying something that will set them off.

Ah, I see. I guess it really just depends on the person. I will admit, that I’ll help out people who kinda know what’s going on, but I don’t like to train straight from scratch.

I guess I contradicted my original statement, but I feel that the two are different.

I agree! I don't really find myself liking to RP with newer members, or people who are new to RPing in general. It's a personal preference. There ARE some people out there who DO like training newbies, but I don't personally enjoy it, so I don't. Kudos to those who do, as they're very helpful for any new guys looking to improve.

Though another thing I want to bring up is that people won't learn anything until they're ready to, even if you try to teach them. If they're out and about looking for a teacher and actually aiming to improve, then they can do so in a surprisingly short amount of time. But those who are content with their RP style, don't see anything wrong with their writing, and aren't looking to improve, aren't going to learn anything because they simply don't want to and don't see a need to. There's nothing wrong with that, either. It's a hobby, everyone should be aware of and do what's comfortable for themselves. Some people enjoy RPing at a lower skill level and just aren't ready to make the transition to more skilled writing yet, and that's fine. You can wish each other good luck and go your separate ways, hoping that you both find another partner that better suits your individual needs.

Depends on the person for me. I was approached by a person who was interested in RPing with me, but he mentioned not having a lot of RP experience. Initially I was skeptical, but then he mentioned that he has experience writing novels and such. That had me trusting that he knew how to make well-developed and realistic characters so I jumped on the opportunity. I haven't regretted it so far.

If I have any reason to assume that I won't be compatible with a partner, then I ask for a writing sample. Just something small that they could type up. I've been asked for writing samples quite often as well so I guess a lot of people do this.

So if it's someone new to role playing, as long as they send a sample I can understand, then I role play with them.

Lord Iapetus said:

I guess this is a way to start discussion, and a way to get some feelings off my chest. It's funny, cause I try to avoid controversy, and this is gonna generate a ton, I'm sure.

So what do I mean about the phrase "I don't train new roleplayers"? Well, I'll tell you.

When I say train, I mean that I don't like to help newbies when they first start out. They fall back on tropes that I don't like. They make Mary Sues. I get that every newbie needs a trainer, I had a few.

But I don't like to sit and explain to newbies why their character can't have those powers, or why they can't use that trope. It just becomes emotionally and physically exhausting. I don't like to receive one liners and drive the entire plot. I'm not that patient, and I'm not good at explaining why. Which is why I rarely RP with people who only just made accounts, or people whom I can tell aren't experienced.

I don't want to invest my free time into something emotionally exhausting and frustrating. I'm sorry to those of you that help them, but I don't. I appreciate you guys, cause I needed you when I started out, but I can't be you.

So, how do you guys feel about this? Do you train the new guys, or do you stay far away?

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No, not really. I'll give tips and pointers to a degree nowadays if someone asks me but training someone is not something I want to do or try to help out especially when it comes to attitudes. Some, I have seen, actually do take the advice of others that offer to help while other people take offense to it and can't handle constructive criticism at all.

I often welcome new members here, so from time to time I get PMs with questions about using the forum and roleplaying in general. I always answer them to the best of my knowledge or direct them to people who can help them instead.

However, as far as actual roleplaying goes - 'it depends'.

I don't mind roleplaying with a newbie and helping them get into it.
However it very much depends on my availability. If I have no free slots to allocate to another rp, I have to reject. I don't take more rps than I can effectively participate in as I don't want roleplaying to become my second work. So I would only accept a rp request from any member, new or veteran, if I have time for it.
Because of that, I haven't actually roleplayed with any newbies lately at all. But I have in the past. Essentially it depends on the person. If someone is willing to learn, and likes to write, it doesn't matter if they have no experience.

I'm more than happy to help out newbies directly through explanations and such, but long gone are the days when I had the time to spare on RPs that really didn't meet my needs in any way. There was a point when I did try to do this "tutoring" thing, I don't recall who proposed it, where more experienced roleplayers would directly try to teach any who might request aid in that regard, so I ended up in a couple roleplays like that. In the end if memory serves me right, the format turned out to be unsustainable. That said, I do often post in discussion threads and I am perfectly willing to help not just newbies but anyone that would like my help or opinion, by giving them feedback on their work, by explaining how to do X thing (usually in terms of coding) or just giving advice.

Would I RP with a new person nowadays? Well, apart from when I'm too busy to realistically take on any new roleplays, my general policy is to give anyone who can meet my standards a chance. That said, those standards are pretty demanding, and even giving you a chance does not necessarily imply that in the long term I am guaranteed to actually find us to be a match. It's not like it doesn't happen though, for instance Ceemuhrie had joined pretty much the day before we started discussing our roleplay, and despite a collection of events having led to great delays in our responses it was one of the best roleplay experiences I had.

There is one more noteworthy exception to account for, which is when I am GMing. When I am a GM in a group RP I don't make much distinction between people in regards to whom I accept coming into the roleplay or not. My biggest filter is usually in the character creation part, where I am most strict. One of the key components for what I consider a fair way of looking over people's characters is to try to make my criteria and the reasons why I might reject a given character as clear as possible. This way the player might know what the exact problem is and thus know to avoid it (and in many cases, try to challenge it critically). For instance.

If you're a new player and you're reading this, and want to improve your writing, then I say start by trying to meet us half way. You'll earn experience, there's no need to rush or feel distressed by the lack of it. Make up for it by doing your research, particularly into writing, by being realistic in what you can or can't do (so that you avoid making compromises you can't keep), and most importantly, by having real passion for what you are doing. There is a lot you can learn from your own merit if you are open to it.

It depends for me. I don't mind helping someone who is new to the roleplay scene or forums, it really depends on how the person takes what they are being told. More often than not, many newbies I have tried to help generally take any sort of constructive criticism personally. If I wanted to be raged at for giving feedback I'd just go into the critique section on deviantArt.

There is only so much you can help someone if they cover their ears, close their eyes, while shouting that you're a "meanie" and you "don't understand/get" their "style". Style is also a big thing because everyone has different roleplay preferences. Back in my dA rp days I was heavy on purple prose because my partner at the time was and I wanted to match their length, though honestly I didn't like how excessively detailed it was to the point where if you actually got to the meat of the post it wouldn't have actually been that much.

I also wouldn't say newbies are also inherently awful, that it's really just their preferences. I've met players who have RPed for some time who still push over powered, trope-filled, Mary/Gary-Stu characters because that is what they personally like to RP. So for me, if they want to get some advice, are willing to listen and not rage when given an honest opinion on how you believe they can improve, I'd be fine in helping them.

If they ask for advice, then argue about everything to the point I feel mentally exhausted and have explained the same thing over and over multiple times, I'll tap out and wish them well and be on my way. Either we just don't mesh personality and style wise, they actually don't want advice, or take anything said personally that is meant to help. To keep trying is to waste both our time and energy.

I guess I’ve learned a lot from reading this!

What I’ve learned is that it depends on attitudes. I’ve changed my viewpoint a little, but I still don’t think that I’d train the new guys.

I think what happened to me in the past is what you guys described about not meshing well with the people in the past. I’ve had attitudes clash and words said.

Maybe next time I’ll be more open.

I agree with most people here, in that I would be willing to answer any questions that are given to me. I have been in the roleplay game long enough to know how to help people out and figure out the ropes here. However, roleplaying is a different story. If they seem to be able to be what I want in a partner upon first entry, I will happily give them a chance. If not, then I will try to guide them towards someone I think they will fit with.

As a writer, I am always open to offer writing advice on things such as plot, character creation, character arcs, conflicts and the works. I actually love talking about that stuff and will very easily talk your ear off if you allow me to. But I have found many don't like criticism, so I don't give it when it isn't asked for and I am often reluctant to give it even when it is asked for. Which is why I really don't RP with someone who does not already meet my requirements.

While practice does make perfect, in order for me help them be better, I would need to criticize them. Now I will here and there give my basic advice such as saying sometimes you need to "ask not what your partner can do for you, and ask what you can do for your partner." But other than that, nah, I don't really "train" new rpers.

That is not to say they are a bad roleplayer, we would just make bad partners.

Depends!

I was a total noob at one point so I totally get it. But for me to 'train' a newbie, all I ask is for their willingness to learn from what I teach and to apply it. Don't let me do all the work for you! But actually try! Take critique and build on it.

I have to say that I'm more than willing to help a new roleplayer learn and improve. The only requirement is for that new roleplayer to be willing to listen to advice. In my years of writing and roleplaying online, I've learned a lot in terms of story-telling, character development, and several other areas that form part of a good roleplay. I've also encountered several RPers and writers in those years who weren't very experienced with it all, and needed guidance.

I've always been willing to mentor a fellow writer or roleplayer as long as they listen to advice and apply it. For example, a couple of years I made a friend on a fandom wiki where roleplaying and story-writing was what we did most of the time. I began writing with him, and we even made a nice story series together. I'll admit, he wasn't a beginner at that point, but he definitely still had lots to learn. So as we worked together I mentored him during the process. Now that we've been writing together for over a year, he's become a great writer, and even a good mentor as well. Once I saw him giving advice and mentoring another writer on that site, and guess what? The advice he was giving sounded just like the advice I had given him back when I was mentoring him. He says that he's learned a lot from me, and to be honest, I'm glad to help other writers and roleplayers grow. I still help him and give him advice at times, but now he's a pretty skilled writer and roleplayer as well. I know that if I ever have to leave that site permanently, at least the site would be left in good hands.

The writer he was mentoring is a beginner writer who struggles a lot with giving characters defined personalities. I've tried mentoring that writer as well, but he's harder to work with. We advise him a lot, but he doesn't seem to progress as much. Well, I have to admit he's at least trying to make the change, so I give him points for that.

But then there's those people who think they know everything and that anyone who tries to give them advice is wrong. I once met a roleplayer like that. Not only were his OCs complete Mary-Sue level, but his idea of getting us to know his characters was literally pointing out how much more powerful his characters were than ours, and why our characters would never be able to defeat his. I'll just let you know... that didn't end well. I tried to help him, but he just wouldn't listen, and would always point out how his way was correct and how no one else in the world would ever understand his style. Eventually I talked more to him and managed him to cool down with his ego, but I'll just tell you that wasn't an easy experience.

So, in conclusion, I'm always willing to help a new roleplayer learn and improve. Mentoring a fellow writer or roleplayer is one of the best things ever in my opinion, since you get to see them grow as writers, improve as you go on, and it just feels so good when they've become great writers and roleplayers. It's that moment where you just look at them and think to yourself. "They grow so fast. I'm so glad to see how they've improved so much." It just feels so good inside to help someone this way. And one day, they might help someone else like you did for them, and the cycle might continue and reach many more people.

But besides that, mentoring others has taught me just as much as it taught those I mentored. I've learned to be patient, I've learned how to solve conflicts with other people, I've learned how to explain my ideas clearly, and I've even become a better writer myself. You see, when you give someone else advice on how to improve, you're also reminding yourself of this helpful advice, and you end up applying your advice on your own work. So I end up improving as well. But most importantly, by helping someone grow as a writer or a roleplayer, you get something much better: You get a friend, and not just any kind of friend: a writing/roleplaying partner. It's a very special connection that stays strong, even long after you finished mentoring them.

Personally I rather enjoy it. I can get where you're coming from I've encountered my fair share of frustrating and exhausting newbies. Overall I tend to have rather positive experiences with new players, less stigmas about the hobby to weigh them down and no refined preferences so they try a lot of stuff. There are upsides and downsides to RPing with newbies but I find given the right newbie I can have a delightfully indulgent time!

If someone's plots are full of ridiculous cliches and their characters are Mary Sues, that usually means they don't understand the basics of storytelling in general. I don't want to RP with someone like that. I definitely don't have the patience to correct them on everything and explain why their character is poorly-written, why the tropes they're using are boring and overdone, and why and how their writing needs a lot of improvement. That's way too much emotional strain for me. RPing is supposed to be fun, not a huge chore.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not the best writer myself, and there are some tropes I love. They're not all bad. But you can usually tell the difference between someone who knows at least a bit about storytelling, and someone who knows nothing at all about it.

However - if someone is a good writer and has some knowledge of how to tell a fun story, but they happen to be brand new to RPing, then I'd still give it a shot. I don't mind explaining some RP basics to them - like, how important cooperation is, or what god-modding is and why it should be avoided. They might make for a great RP partner. I'm willing to try.
It's just that I wouldn't want to RP with someone who's bad at or very new to storytelling in general.

I can RP with newbies and if they have what seems to be an entertaining idea for an RP, I help them get it off the ground by providing any insight. In my experience, those that reach out to me are pretty bright-eyed and have ideas that they just need a bit of help fleshing out, which I'm happy to help out with.

I don't mentor them or anything like that. The thing I like to discuss more than anything is Marys/Garys and OP characters in terms of RPs with action, and to get them to avoid that. In my experience, there have been 3 backgrounds of newbies that reach out to me

• Reading Background
• Anime Background
• Fandom Background

This is, of course, not exhaustive and some have a combination. However, every newbie that's reached out to me have one of those 3. The Anime background newbies are more likely to make those OP characters, and Fandom are more likely to make those Marys/Garys. Those with mostly reading backgrounds seemed fairly indecisive yet have a lot of ideas. This is a generalization based on my personal observations of PMs with newbies. That's why I can't just teach them. Everyone is different and I'm not some SME. I offer tips when asked and tell them what to steer away from (ie. trying to make your character like an anime high school character even if it's the RP prompt) but it doesn't go too far beyond that. There's also the probability of them deciding the RP world isn't for them and leaving the site. It would suck to invest time into a protege and they leave.


I have nothing against Newbies and I'm fine with RPing with them and helping them with whatever they need, provided they have some sort of idea of what they want. I don't teach them how to write though. Hell, over 4 years here and I'm still learning myself. I made peace with the fact that most RPs are gonna fail and most are gonna end up a mess in terms of storyline. If it's fun, it's a success even if it dies or the story is straight crap when compiled. Fun over everything and I don't need some incredibly well-written story by the end. I just need one without annoying, terrible cliches (like the Lone Survivor Child) and Marys/Garys and other stuff that make RPing seem like a chore (godmodding, metagaming, half-assing, etc.)

I don't go looking for someone to train, nor is the idea attractive. However, others trained me, and there are circumstances where I'd train someone I already knew.

As said many times before me, it depends.

I generally am okay with answering any questions coming from my co-players (and random people at times) if they are asked in a proper manner. Now, proper manner sounds posh - and it is! I just get instantly irritated when I get messages akin to "oh, hahaha, lol i suck so much *blush* i'm doing my best, but i never rped before owo am i doing everything wrong? ~~", I mean JUST SPEAK LIKE A NORMAL PERSON, geesh! It's not hard to rephrase that flow of words into "was my post good?" or "how can I improve that post?", right? Right. That's a proper manner. More precise the question is - the better. I really don't mind talking about attention, and details, and hints, and fleshing things out, and such. Probably my most favourite advice to give is "characters can be wrong, can make mistakes, can lie; as the matter of fact, they can not do that - they must do that" - something overlooked too much in both RPs, literature, games, and many other types of media I'm too tired to recollect; and I do really love players who don't forget about that.

All the proper request mentioned, let's not forget not only how you request it, but also how to react to it, as all too many of us can relate to already mentioned

Fyuri said:

many newbies I have tried to help generally take any sort of constructive criticism personally

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Receiving feedback can be hard, and I know I can be rough with it, as I kind of trying to give what I'd like to receive: fair, blunt, and to the point, without any ritual dances with tambourine around etiquette.

However, I will not actively search for a person to help out. Usually people are good at figuring things out on their own... and I don't think I care enough to spread love around - sorry for that. Besides, I don't think I'm confident enough to decline a request for help, so that compensates the lack of enthusiasm in seeking for people to get under my wing. I think in all my RP lifetime I had to softly decline someone training just once, and it ended poorly... they did not receive any feedback well, and when I stepped back from mentor position, made a scandal, so it's not like my experience in denial is very good after all.

Generally I think that people like to be approached with problems and requests for help. It makes us feel better about ourselves, as this is a sign of respect given and having some skill. You have to be very angry at the moment of such a request to deny it, albeit I can understand why someone would not want to train someone via playing with them... though it is probably hard to do this in any other way.

I'll really roleplay with anyone, new or veteran, as long as they're over a certain age. We all start somewhere. I don't mind helping people get into it but they also have to be open to getting advice and criticism as well. I find most newbies are 15 and under so that's below my age range so I'll nope out of it. Otherwise, why not?

I totally get not wanting to train or help newcomers. It's a lot of work and can be (at times) exhausting. But someone trained me so I always feel like I should give that help back.

Personally, I think there's a really important distinction between "new account" and "new roleplayer". I'm a good example of this. I just made an account here on RPN, but I've been RPing online in similar formats since I was 13 years old. I'm really thankful to people who've helped me get into the swing of things on this site, but I don't appreciate being treated like a total newbie or talked down to. I've been doing this for a hot minute.

It goes both ways, too. On the last site I was on, I enjoyed introducing new accounts who weren't new to RP as a whole to the way the site worked. I think it's an important distinction.

Wandering Seraph said:

Personally, I think there's a really important distinction between "new account" and "new roleplayer". I'm a good example of this. I just made an account here on RPN, but I've been RPing online in similar formats since I was 13 years old. I'm really thankful to people who've helped me get into the swing of things on this site, but I don't appreciate being treated like a total newbie or talked down to. I've been doing this for a hot minute.

It goes both ways, too. On the last site I was on, I enjoyed introducing new accounts who weren't new to RP as a whole to the way the site worked. I think it's an important distinction.

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I think everyone here is talking about people that are new to RPing itself. They don’t understand how good writing works, or how the rules of RP work, and it can be tiring to train them.
Helping someone new to the site learn the ropes isn’t a big deal if they’re experienced with RP.

Honestly I find the attitude of the OP a bit condescending. "You can't do this and that." You can play with whomever you like, but dont blame a style of writing you dislike of being less "skilled." And I'm not even talking about 4 word posts or anything. Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are easy wish fulfillment books which fit every Mary Sue trope imagineable, but they inspired millions to try out writing, even if its coming from a direction I don't enjoy.

I can fully respect you not wanting to play a half-demon half-angel misunderstood Orphan with superpowers, but I'm gonna fight you tooth and nail if you call that unskilled or inferior roleplaying.