D. Rex
Magic Eight Ball
Alrighty. I think that totals to 4 damage.
still got the unfortunate rolls. Afureru badassery is not meant to be.
still got the unfortunate rolls. Afureru badassery is not meant to be.
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Dice Shadows of the Setting Sun (OOC)
- Thread starter WlfSamurai
- Start date
Random Word
Three Thousand Club
Unless I miscount, 5 hits is 2 net successes.
D. Rex
Magic Eight Ball
For the attack? I accidently rolled an extra die. The last 8 is void. Only had 21 dice, after adjusting for weapon accuracy and grappled penalty.
Random Word
Three Thousand Club
Aha, I understand now.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Hoping to have a post up this evening. Sorry for the wait.
jaydude
Five Thousand Club
No worries.
Random Word
Three Thousand Club
Hold up a moment. Sigrdrifa crashed Afureru. Afureru's at -2 + 5 = 3. Sigrdrifa is at 9 + 11 + 5 - 4 = 21. She's going to give Afureru a beating she'll feel in the morning if she doesn't submit.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Oh shit, you’re right. Thanks!
Looking to make sure I didn’t miss something as to how that effected Afureru's attack…
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Random Word
fixed. Thanks.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
I love this,
Esbilon
. How does everyone resist it?
Can you guys help me work out the mechanics on how this effects everyone? Is it if you don't have a major intimacy opposing, this is against your resolve?
Esbilon
. How does everyone resist it?Can you guys help me work out the mechanics on how this effects everyone? Is it if you don't have a major intimacy opposing, this is against your resolve?
Esbilon
Seven Thousand Club
First: I messed up, I should have rolled 3 dice less since I'm using the Persuade action on everyone rather than just one person.
Second: Since I'm not working off an Intimacy, this can only make people take "relatively trivial and risk-free actions" so if the characters are committed to fighting, they can go right on ahead, and if they think it's dangerous to stop fighting, they can also ignore it.
Third: If they think this is a trivial request, but want to resist it anyway, they need to find an Intimacy that works against it and use that for a Decision Point and spend wp to resist. But if they have such an Intimacy, this probably isn't a trivial request.
I've kinda put the cart before the horse/fallen back to Ex2 thinking when I picked this action. I knew I couldn't compel people to take risks, but I'd missed the bit about "relatively trivial." Mechanically this kinda does nothing, but y'all hear Zoya telling you to stop fighting.
Second: Since I'm not working off an Intimacy, this can only make people take "relatively trivial and risk-free actions" so if the characters are committed to fighting, they can go right on ahead, and if they think it's dangerous to stop fighting, they can also ignore it.
Third: If they think this is a trivial request, but want to resist it anyway, they need to find an Intimacy that works against it and use that for a Decision Point and spend wp to resist. But if they have such an Intimacy, this probably isn't a trivial request.
I've kinda put the cart before the horse/fallen back to Ex2 thinking when I picked this action. I knew I couldn't compel people to take risks, but I'd missed the bit about "relatively trivial." Mechanically this kinda does nothing, but y'all hear Zoya telling you to stop fighting.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Interesting. I find the social influence bit of 3e convoluted and kind of a pain. I’m trying to keep an open mind, but I still think intimacies are cumbersome. It’s something I never really got used to in 2/2.5e.
Anyway, noted. Thank you for breaking that down for me.
Hopefully we can RP out some effect of Zoya’s action. I‘d hate for you to spend those motes on no effect. That’s the game robbing you of choice/usefulness.
Hell, I may rule something happens from it.
Anyone else have any thoughts on Zoya’s action taking effect?
Random Word
Three Thousand Club
Personally, I think the social influence system is one of the most beautiful and elegant parts of 3e. It's simple enough not to bog things down, but deep enough to be interesting. It's a clever puzzle game that in some important ways genuinely reflects how persuading people works, and it means you have to actually understand the people you want to persuade - throwing large dice pools at them blindly is insufficient to get what you want most of the time. I've also found throwing large numbers of dice at people to be relatively ineffective at persuading them to do anything but throw some back or leave the room.
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Random Word
Three Thousand Club
Oh, right, effects - well, I'd say Zoya's action could very plausibly create a pause in hostilities, if not an outright cessation, simply because it's so attention-grabbing. For at least the duration she's speaking everyone's attention is probably firmly centred on her and not beating the snot out of each other.
The problem with the persuade attempt is Zoya is telling Sigrdrifa something she not only already knows, but thinks is patently obvious. Sigrdrífa knows Afureru isn't her enemy, and is in fact already attempting to stop the fight between Embrace, Afureru, and Tyree because she perceives it to be a lethal fight (insomuch as a fight with a dead woman can be considered lethal). There's a world of difference to her between a non-lethal and a lethal fight, and she's currently engaging in a non-lethal attempt to subdue Afureru and Tyree to prevent a lethal fight the best way she knows how. As far as Sigrdrífa can tell, Zoya's plea is supporting her effort to force Afureru to submit, so Sigrdrífa would hardly stop even if she weren't having fun.
The problem with the persuade attempt is Zoya is telling Sigrdrifa something she not only already knows, but thinks is patently obvious. Sigrdrífa knows Afureru isn't her enemy, and is in fact already attempting to stop the fight between Embrace, Afureru, and Tyree because she perceives it to be a lethal fight (insomuch as a fight with a dead woman can be considered lethal). There's a world of difference to her between a non-lethal and a lethal fight, and she's currently engaging in a non-lethal attempt to subdue Afureru and Tyree to prevent a lethal fight the best way she knows how. As far as Sigrdrífa can tell, Zoya's plea is supporting her effort to force Afureru to submit, so Sigrdrífa would hardly stop even if she weren't having fun.
Esbilon
Seven Thousand Club
I hesitate to call anything with the number of steps and flow-chart-depth of the 3e social influence elegant, but in principle I do like the idea of having to build Intimacies in order to influence people to do anything major.
However, unless interactions are specificially built around it, it makes it hard to have an effective social character since you have to spend scenes building such intimacies - and often you don't have the time to do so when interacting with NPCs.
When it comes to PCs, a lot of people reasonably dislike other characters rolling social influence attempts at them every time they can, even if that's kinda the "correct" thing to do.
In the current instance, I think it would make sense for the involved parties to reconsider whether or not their past interactions with Zoya should constitute an Intimacy, and if so if that Intimacy can be used to compel them into a cessation of hostilities.
Mechanically, I wish that the Solar Charm-tree was able to create other Intimacies than a defining one of lust, but that's not really the discussion we're having at the moment.
However, unless interactions are specificially built around it, it makes it hard to have an effective social character since you have to spend scenes building such intimacies - and often you don't have the time to do so when interacting with NPCs.
When it comes to PCs, a lot of people reasonably dislike other characters rolling social influence attempts at them every time they can, even if that's kinda the "correct" thing to do.
In the current instance, I think it would make sense for the involved parties to reconsider whether or not their past interactions with Zoya should constitute an Intimacy, and if so if that Intimacy can be used to compel them into a cessation of hostilities.
Mechanically, I wish that the Solar Charm-tree was able to create other Intimacies than a defining one of lust, but that's not really the discussion we're having at the moment.
Random Word
Three Thousand Club
I usually mark down in a post if an intimacy is created in my character for just that reason, but I hadn't been bothering here simply because WlfSamurai had banned mechanical social influence for PCs. If it's helpful for you to know, Sigrdrífa has a minor intimacy of respect for Zoya, and probably a minor intimacy of like... wary fascination or something, but she doesn't see beating Afureru into submission to be at all misaligned with Zoya's request. As far as Sigrdrífa is concerned, Zoya is just asking her to do what she's already trying to do - stop the fight. If Afureru stops struggling, she stops arm twisting.
On the subject of building intimacies in NPCs being unwieldy, discovering existing intimacies is pretty easy, and figuring out how to couch your request such that it aligns with an NPCs intimacies is to me a fun and engaging challenge. I think it really ought to take multiple scenes of effort to build Defining intimacies in someone, barring a high Essence custom Charm, but you can often do a lot with the Minor intimacies you build in the first scene you meet someone. I think it's also perfectly reasonable to ask the ST if you can toss some dice (or just autosucceed because Solar) to represent scenes spent building intimacies in specific NPCs off screen if the pace doesn't allow for it to happen organically, provided you've got everything you need to pass the 'increasing evidence' test already done.
On the subject of building intimacies in NPCs being unwieldy, discovering existing intimacies is pretty easy, and figuring out how to couch your request such that it aligns with an NPCs intimacies is to me a fun and engaging challenge. I think it really ought to take multiple scenes of effort to build Defining intimacies in someone, barring a high Essence custom Charm, but you can often do a lot with the Minor intimacies you build in the first scene you meet someone. I think it's also perfectly reasonable to ask the ST if you can toss some dice (or just autosucceed because Solar) to represent scenes spent building intimacies in specific NPCs off screen if the pace doesn't allow for it to happen organically, provided you've got everything you need to pass the 'increasing evidence' test already done.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Well, I'm willing to work with this pause influence in the fight to try and talk Tyree down from skewering this Abyssal.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Yeah, my keeping influence rolls from PC to PC seems premature as the system already kind of has that built-in, I guess.
The spirit of me banning them was to keep from anyone being compelled unfairly. I’m not sure I’m worried about that anymore as it takes at least one roll to really know what you have a shot at influencing anyway.
Hmmm… Let me think on the best way to make this useful.
My previous comment was born out of my bias for fiction-first games where a single roll can be used to resolve a situation. I know that’s unrealistic in Exalted.
I’m open to suggestions, including leaving it as-is.
The spirit of me banning them was to keep from anyone being compelled unfairly. I’m not sure I’m worried about that anymore as it takes at least one roll to really know what you have a shot at influencing anyway.
Hmmm… Let me think on the best way to make this useful.
My previous comment was born out of my bias for fiction-first games where a single roll can be used to resolve a situation. I know that’s unrealistic in Exalted.
I’m open to suggestions, including leaving it as-is.
Rykon
Four Thousand Club
Perhaps one day we'll see Nobilis or Chuubo's Marvelous Wish Granting Engine run on this site. No dice, but there are systems for resolving tasks that are narratively important. Mostly static stats and point spending.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Sorry, guys. Got eaten by work today. Hoping to move this forward this evening or tomorrow sometime.
Thanks for waiting.
Thanks for waiting.
Teh Frixz
That lady robot
Oh my god this is too good of a read. The drama.
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Yep! I am loving this.
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
WlfSamurai
Maelstrom Engineer
Teh Frixz
I need to add one more thing to the bottom of the mechanics! You can spend 2 Willpower to succeed automatically.
