Anyone ever get the feeling that they miss the some of the stock elements of fantasy that Exalted omits or avoids in order to present its particular world? I have been playing those old D&D arcade games, Tower of Doom and Shadows over Mystara, and I find myself kind of missing the elves, dragons, and what have you of it in Exalted.
Ever miss 'classic' fantasy elements when you play Exalted?
- Thread starter Andrew02
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Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Exalted has elves, dwarves, orcs, etc -- they're just not called that, they're <strike>Fair Folk</strike> .. er, Raksha.
As far as dragons, I don't know what you're talking about. There are dragons everywhere in Creation.
-S
As far as dragons, I don't know what you're talking about. There are dragons everywhere in Creation.
-S
I agree that it's not quite the same, but I still don't miss them. Never been a fan of Dwarfs (Dwarves?), The Raksha are a definite improvement, and I think Elemental Dragons are much cooler. I know there are other differences, but I can think of any that would greatly improve Exalted.
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
Not so much. There are plenty of classic Western fantasy, Tolkien/Terry Brooks inspired fantasy out there. Â
I do kind of like the d20 version of Exalted--the Eberron setting, which I'm pilfering ideas from on a near constant basis now, because it's that good--but I think that a lot of games cover the Westernized version of fantasy pretty well. Â Exalted fills a niche, but you can port in your own stuff if you'd rather have a more classic feel--lord knows there's enough Western fantasy elements in anime. Raid it if you feel it's neccessary.
I like that there aren't so many Western elements--not because I don't like them, but because they haven't been thought of yet. Â If the setting is in an age before all that stuff gets taken down as legend, and WW certainly covered their backs with Ars Magica and some of the Realms in Mage, it makes sense. But if you miss all of it, put some in. Have a ball--but I'm more in favor of trying out something a bit different, and not just classic Asian themes either--because those have been done up pretty well too, again from the nice folk who pulled together D&D and Warhammer.
I do kind of like the d20 version of Exalted--the Eberron setting, which I'm pilfering ideas from on a near constant basis now, because it's that good--but I think that a lot of games cover the Westernized version of fantasy pretty well. Â Exalted fills a niche, but you can port in your own stuff if you'd rather have a more classic feel--lord knows there's enough Western fantasy elements in anime. Raid it if you feel it's neccessary.
I like that there aren't so many Western elements--not because I don't like them, but because they haven't been thought of yet. Â If the setting is in an age before all that stuff gets taken down as legend, and WW certainly covered their backs with Ars Magica and some of the Realms in Mage, it makes sense. But if you miss all of it, put some in. Have a ball--but I'm more in favor of trying out something a bit different, and not just classic Asian themes either--because those have been done up pretty well too, again from the nice folk who pulled together D&D and Warhammer.
ImaginalDisc
Magic Eight Ball
What exactly is missing?
Small groups of adventurers who save the world: Check
Magical weapons and armor: Check
Cloisters of wisdom and power: Check
Horrible demons who want to devour your soul: Check
Kicking butt to increase in butt kicing power: Check
Ruling your own kingdom if you feel like it: Check
Purely inhuman villains you won't in anyway feel bad about fighting (Deathlords, Yozis, Raksha, etc.): Check, sure there are complex villains, but that's something else.
The only that's clearly missing is the irrelvancy low level characters usueally have.
Small groups of adventurers who save the world: Check
Magical weapons and armor: Check
Cloisters of wisdom and power: Check
Horrible demons who want to devour your soul: Check
Kicking butt to increase in butt kicing power: Check
Ruling your own kingdom if you feel like it: Check
Purely inhuman villains you won't in anyway feel bad about fighting (Deathlords, Yozis, Raksha, etc.): Check, sure there are complex villains, but that's something else.
The only that's clearly missing is the irrelvancy low level characters usueally have.
Elves, as far as I know, won't eat your dreams and leave an empty husk to be sold as slave labor to the guild.ImaginalDisc said:
Fafnir or Smaug did not have supervisors they needed to file reports to, or specific duties they needed to perform as part of some sort of bureaucracy as Blood Sky or Swan Dragon did. I'm sure if Swan became sane, he'd have a lot of paper work waiting on his desk.
It is not just a matter of those things being there, but how they are presented. The Red Wizards of Thay are by no means inisgnificantly different from the wizards of the Heptagram. The Immaculate monks are by no means insignificantly different from paladins or martially oriented clerics. The same for Balors and Yozis.
There are groups of adventurers and special swords in Conan the Barbarian and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Watch those two films and try to tell me they're the same.
memesis
One Thousand Club
It's not that hard to game in ways that make those things far-away considerations.
Take Fakharu. Â He doesn't seem the type to do much paperwork, or any, really. Â He seems rather more intellectually capable than Smaug, but no less self-indulgent. Â Play up those things. Â Let dragons be represented as dragons, and don't emphasize their spirit nature.
Make the Realm a far-off, half-imagined place. Â With thousands of miles in the Threshold to work with, you can do this. Â Traveling caravans may bring news and gossip, but they don't say 'Guild' in big red letters on the side, nor do they necessarily bring mindblasted slaves with them.
Nobody talks to the Elf King living in the woods, nor do any question where the elves come from - maidens disappear from year to year, and more "elves" emerge from the woods to trade with mortal man, and it's been that way for so many years that nobody thinks about it.
The setting doesn't oblige you to have the major pieces of it at the forefront of every game you run. Â It's just set up that way by default, the same way old Vampire wasn't built with a mortals-only game in mind even though it could be used to do one.
Take Fakharu. Â He doesn't seem the type to do much paperwork, or any, really. Â He seems rather more intellectually capable than Smaug, but no less self-indulgent. Â Play up those things. Â Let dragons be represented as dragons, and don't emphasize their spirit nature.
Make the Realm a far-off, half-imagined place. Â With thousands of miles in the Threshold to work with, you can do this. Â Traveling caravans may bring news and gossip, but they don't say 'Guild' in big red letters on the side, nor do they necessarily bring mindblasted slaves with them.
Nobody talks to the Elf King living in the woods, nor do any question where the elves come from - maidens disappear from year to year, and more "elves" emerge from the woods to trade with mortal man, and it's been that way for so many years that nobody thinks about it.
The setting doesn't oblige you to have the major pieces of it at the forefront of every game you run. Â It's just set up that way by default, the same way old Vampire wasn't built with a mortals-only game in mind even though it could be used to do one.
Jakk Bey
One Thousand Club
So, it boils down to Eastern mythos versus Western mythos. Â Considering that Exalted is based on Eastern mythos for the most part, with a good deal of borrowing hither and tither, it still comes down the Chinese idea of a Celestial Bureacracy. That the Dragons aren't Smaug or Fafnir is because in the East, they weren't ravening creatures full of hunger and avarice--they were a part of the whole fabric, representatives of Heaven's might.
There are big differences between Eastern and Western mythos, and the themes that they tackle. Â Blame this in part for all those years of Confucian thinking, and Legalists who reinterpreted the Thousand Hells. Â The idea of things having a purpose, a place, is very much a product of the culture that China helped advance across ALL of Asia, and it permeated throughout China and well beyond. This even affected their myths and their legends. Â Much as Christianity altered a good many cults and native religions in Europe to accomodate the nice men with the long swords and the steady supply of horse, iron, and then steel.
If you'd rather see more Western elements, then encorporate more in. Â It, I think, will be difficult, since a good deal of the Western ideal of fantasy involves medieval cultures that are based on a Judeo-Christian invasion into fertile lands. And to be honest, it's been done to death both in the West and the East. At least the Exalted Creation is trying for something a bit more original.
There are big differences between Eastern and Western mythos, and the themes that they tackle. Â Blame this in part for all those years of Confucian thinking, and Legalists who reinterpreted the Thousand Hells. Â The idea of things having a purpose, a place, is very much a product of the culture that China helped advance across ALL of Asia, and it permeated throughout China and well beyond. This even affected their myths and their legends. Â Much as Christianity altered a good many cults and native religions in Europe to accomodate the nice men with the long swords and the steady supply of horse, iron, and then steel.
If you'd rather see more Western elements, then encorporate more in. Â It, I think, will be difficult, since a good deal of the Western ideal of fantasy involves medieval cultures that are based on a Judeo-Christian invasion into fertile lands. And to be honest, it's been done to death both in the West and the East. At least the Exalted Creation is trying for something a bit more original.
Re: Ever miss 'classic' fantasy elements when you play Exalt
Not really, but I do go for a more "western" version of Creation. My northlands setting is very close to the european old norse myth. I could go for a good oldfashioned dragon at some point, but I don't think I would skip the exalted background for it. It would just be as lawless as all the other spirits now a days.Andrew02 said:
memesis
One Thousand Club
Re: Ever miss 'classic' fantasy elements when you play Exalt
That's why we have Shadowrun.TheScreenJockey said:
Sherwood
Luna's Concubine
Dont forget one of the most important rules of the game: Â If there is something you don't like - change it! Â If you want different races living next to humans with their own culture and background, add them. Â As large as the world of Exalted is, there is plenty of room for more races, and it opens up the questions of 'do Elves/Dwarves/Orcs/whatever Exalt?' Â That can lead to a great many fun twists if you want to explore the possibilities.
ImaginalDisc
Magic Eight Ball
There's also a lot of variation in "human". The signature character in the Exalted webcomic is from a race of humans with panda-spots, no body hair, and they seem to be inherantly double-jointed. People can have pointy ears, vestigal wings, and extra arms, and still not be wyld tainted enough to be trapped in the wyld. It's pretty easy for a race of long lived humans who look a lot like elves to live in the west, or a race of squat, long bearded humans to live in the north.
Seiraryu
Junior Member
If you're dying for some dragons or other mythical creatures, you can do various things.
A)  What others have suggested, and downplay the part that you don't like about the current ones.
B)  Create some.  Dude, with the amount of Wyld Mutations, it's easy enough to imagine a race of beings that look like Western dragons.  Call them wyrms or drakes if you don't want to confuse them with the elemental dragons, but otherwise, you have an arsenal with which to create these beings.
C)  If all else fails, just House Rule that some of the Fair Folks' creatures (such as gryphons and wyrms and stuff) find ways of maintaining a solid form.  The Fair Folk create all sorts of weird stuff with their Shaping...just make some of it stick, and voila, you've got mythical creatures.
A)  What others have suggested, and downplay the part that you don't like about the current ones.
B)  Create some.  Dude, with the amount of Wyld Mutations, it's easy enough to imagine a race of beings that look like Western dragons.  Call them wyrms or drakes if you don't want to confuse them with the elemental dragons, but otherwise, you have an arsenal with which to create these beings.
C)  If all else fails, just House Rule that some of the Fair Folks' creatures (such as gryphons and wyrms and stuff) find ways of maintaining a solid form.  The Fair Folk create all sorts of weird stuff with their Shaping...just make some of it stick, and voila, you've got mythical creatures.
I can understand missing a lot of the themes in DnD while playing Exalted. Â I tend to alternate between both games.
When playing the "irrelevent" low level characters in DnD epic challanges seem more insurmountable than when playing Exalted. Â Themes such as taking down the Immaculate Order and Dynasty and restoring the Solars to dominance are common in Exalted. Â Imagine a similar theme, Deposing the Red Wizards of Thay while simultaneously removing all that is evil from Mulhorand? Â
The epic fantasy is better suited for Exalted. Â I have played in games where the group never strayed more than two or three days travel from the city they lived in. Â Each character had his own agenda, but the actions of the rest of the world did not concern them. Â It is difficult to create such "mediocrity" in Exalted.
Also, there is a lot to be said about the differences between oxidental (european) and oriental dragons. Â The spiritual nature inherent to oriental dragons, and their placement in the Exalted setting does not make it easy to modify them into oxidental. Â Furthermore, creating oxidental dragons would take a lot of work. Â But there are always other creatures that could serve as surrogates.
When playing the "irrelevent" low level characters in DnD epic challanges seem more insurmountable than when playing Exalted. Â Themes such as taking down the Immaculate Order and Dynasty and restoring the Solars to dominance are common in Exalted. Â Imagine a similar theme, Deposing the Red Wizards of Thay while simultaneously removing all that is evil from Mulhorand? Â
The epic fantasy is better suited for Exalted. Â I have played in games where the group never strayed more than two or three days travel from the city they lived in. Â Each character had his own agenda, but the actions of the rest of the world did not concern them. Â It is difficult to create such "mediocrity" in Exalted.
Also, there is a lot to be said about the differences between oxidental (european) and oriental dragons. Â The spiritual nature inherent to oriental dragons, and their placement in the Exalted setting does not make it easy to modify them into oxidental. Â Furthermore, creating oxidental dragons would take a lot of work. Â But there are always other creatures that could serve as surrogates.
fmneto
New Member
I do miss a lot of Fantasy elements. A *lot*.
When I first heard about Exalted, it went like "Oh, WW's Fantasy-style game. cool!" It turned out top be something completely different from what I expected, which was some kind of Dark Ages without Vampires or Werewolves or Magi or anything like that - I thought it would be a "regular" fantasy roleplaying game - dragons, elves, dwarves, D&Dish magic, and so on.
I don't like (A)D&D's system, so I was expecting a decent system with which I could use the beautiful setting they have - especially Forgotten Realms.
Obviously Exalted doesn't have *anything* that resembles that. I'm not complaining though, I'm totally sold on Exalted. Â
When I first heard about Exalted, it went like "Oh, WW's Fantasy-style game. cool!" It turned out top be something completely different from what I expected, which was some kind of Dark Ages without Vampires or Werewolves or Magi or anything like that - I thought it would be a "regular" fantasy roleplaying game - dragons, elves, dwarves, D&Dish magic, and so on.
I don't like (A)D&D's system, so I was expecting a decent system with which I could use the beautiful setting they have - especially Forgotten Realms.
Obviously Exalted doesn't have *anything* that resembles that. I'm not complaining though, I'm totally sold on Exalted. Â
The Mad hatter
Junior Member
you have dwarves in the jade born, fae can cover most any other race and their changling spawn can too, wyld mutations, Behemoths (those done by Fae artfact) and western dragons can be sprits who just have a dirrent look to them, its really easy to make it a very fantsy game, in ours right now there are a tribe of barbarins that resemble the gnolls from Record of Lotoss war due to wyld mutations, and a hord of commner fae warriors that look like dark elves, with the nobles looking like fire Gensi from forgotten realms
fmneto
New Member
Yeah, I know. But then again, as already said by someone earlier in the thread, it's just not the same. You need to do some tweaking to make it a "regular fantasy setting" with dwarves, elves, and so on.
Besides that, species are not the only thing different in Exalted than in other fantasy RPGs; there would be no such thing as people "chosen by the gods" to rule all over the place. PCs are just regular people who get geared up and go explore. No anima effects, no superhuman powers, nothing like that. There's magic, of course, but being a magic user depends on one's class, not on oneself's innate gifts.
And there's also what kakitashinsumi has already said: power level. Probably anyone who ever played an Exalted series has already noticeably change the course of history - that's what the game is about. The same is not true for the regular adventurar from a fantasy game. You never do something too important when you're only a starting character - it's usually a combination of (kill, loot, rescue) and (the monster, the treasure the princess).
D&D has a whole source book for epic levels, while it's already assumed from the beginning in Exalted, for crying out loud!
Besides that, species are not the only thing different in Exalted than in other fantasy RPGs; there would be no such thing as people "chosen by the gods" to rule all over the place. PCs are just regular people who get geared up and go explore. No anima effects, no superhuman powers, nothing like that. There's magic, of course, but being a magic user depends on one's class, not on oneself's innate gifts.
And there's also what kakitashinsumi has already said: power level. Probably anyone who ever played an Exalted series has already noticeably change the course of history - that's what the game is about. The same is not true for the regular adventurar from a fantasy game. You never do something too important when you're only a starting character - it's usually a combination of (kill, loot, rescue) and (the monster, the treasure the princess).
D&D has a whole source book for epic levels, while it's already assumed from the beginning in Exalted, for crying out loud!
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
You always have the option of playing a heroic mortal in Exalted. You can play that normal mortal who gears up and goes out adventuring. There's nothing stopping you.
-S
-S